Why Not Type In All Caps?

Isablan, that was my first thought, actually. *g* But he said he was a writer, and those tend to think editors are Evil Dom Wannabes.

(Note: This post has no significant meaning to be lost in the first place, so the risk of impeded communication is extremely low.)

All I wanted to convy is that since these forums are mostly written in English and that people are trying to communicate their thoughts & ideas, if they want people to read what they write, then I was suggesting for them to put the post in a style that the majority of people find comfortable, easy and fast to read. Yes, there are some people that can read anything, HOWEVER the majority of people find standard capitalization and punctuation easy to read and comprehend. These forums are hard enough to read with LL using a sans-serif font, why make it even harder?

All I'm saying is that if I have to work at reading something, I'm going to skip it and go to the next post, and I think a lot of people do the same thing. You can type in any style you want, but if you want the maximum amout of people to take the time to read what you write, I would suggest using standard English capitalization and punctuation (or as close to it as you can get, as I know English is a second language for a lot of people here.)

I personally find it hard to read when people TYPE LIKE THIS ALL THE TIME AND USE ONE LETTER WORDS LIKE "U R DUMB"! I usually think either this person is here to cause trouble or they aren't all that smart. That's just how i comprehend it. Everyone has their own way of reading it though. I just find it totally impossible to read logically.

SURETHISISREADABLEBUTITTAKESTOODAMNLONG! ANDWHYSHOULDIGIVEADAMNWHATTHEYHAVETOSAYANYWAY?

Wouldn't you rather have it written in plain legible English, like this sentence? I know i would. It isn't that hard to do it either. Just some people have to be annoying. It's in their nature.

EEK! lmao

e.e. cummings

Hehe Prawn - interesting post - the above paragraph was amazingly easy to read !!

but does it make the post unreadable? I would say no and that is kinda how this started with readability not this stuff (although i can't read "leetspeak" or whatever its called) and as on that uses lol i try hard not to i used to be way worse it bugs me as well. Its kinda funny because the way i learned to use it i was almost forced to because of the group i was with all those short forums each time i saw one i had to ask then the leetspeak but I learned the lol and those things from icq almost as a matter of having to become a part of the culture and I hated it but did (now i can't get it out of my patterns although i do try hard lol is the last remaining remnant of the shortforms i had used i think i find that one actualy handy and to mean something I'm not sure how i would represent a laugh like that any other way other then with an emoticon)

When we read sentences are brain does not process every letter mainly the shape of the word and the first and last letters for example

Op was about caps but i felt compelled to post it \o/

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Or rather...

According to a researcher (sic) at Cambridge University, it doesn't matter in what order the letters in a word are, the only important thing is that the first and last letter be at the right place. The rest can be a total mess and you can still read it without problem. This is because the human mind does not read every letter by itself but the word as a whole.

I know several people with Young children in school right now, and when i see examples of thier Written work, I'm amazed at how completely indecipherable it is, It seems now, the Basics of spelling i was taught right from the beginning (Preschool age by current standard) are not even begun to be addresses with any seriousness until the child is 9 or 10. the principle, according to the parents, as explained to them by the teachers, is to get the children writing fast, and to write the word as it sounds, and concentrate on correct spelling Later. It strikes me that it is starting too late, that it is engraining bad habits which must be Unlearned Later.

As to the Word Pattern recognition, I wonder how really accurate that is?
If i were to use a sentence here for example;
"I do not know the exact date of the introduction to our school system of the Word pattern recognition method of reading."

According to the theory presented i should be able to replace the word "Introduction" with words like Intradiction, Interruption, Interpretation, Indication, Induction, Interaction or Interpolation and the sentence would Still be read as Intended and make perfect sense. Many of those same words could Easily stand in If the "Most of the correct letters present in mixed order" Point of View were correct as well. Yes, the Mind CAN decipher meaning if that condition is met BUT it will also register that the Letters are in the Incorrect locations, it will not mistake it for the correct order. One would have to be extremely Poor at Reading NOT to notice such a substitution. Context Will of course have some effect, but only if the Reader is familiar with the Full intent of the sentence that they are Reading. No, I think there Is a Lot more going on than Just extrapolation from the first, and last letters or letter combinations of a Word.

Angel.

How does it work out if you combine the alternating case style with the inner-letters-scrambled approach? Hm, I wonder if there are some fonts with horizontally and vertically reflected letters to throw in as well.

One letter normal and uppercase, next one in the wrong place, lowercase, and upside down, next one in the wrong place, uppercase, inverted left to right, next one ...

Hmm, a judicious use of sub and superscript might help straighen that mess out.

It's a good thing this thread is hidden in the forums at secondlife.com; if the Linden staff ever saw it, something inspired by these ideas might find its way into the user interface in the next version.

"cR-tl[ for pOiUeVrs tab"

Using the characters with the accents should be added in to this typographic stew as well.

Actually, I've seen that done at length in some comic writing. It comes over as a sort of extended Malapropism, and done well is still quite interpretable in its original sense.

Ok, I only skirted a couple of posts within these five pages but clarity springs to mind as a point in favour of conforming to literature standards ..... eg, could someone please explain DOTHEYJUSTLOSEENSIUSMWHENNOTALKING to me please? I've read it a dozen or more times but I always get lost in the middle. Why am I bothering to read it? If the poster can't format plain text to any standard but their own, why should anyone else bother trying to read it? There's at least one letter missing completely.

Surely if posters want to get a point across, then minimum decoding or decyphering by the reader would benefit? I'm not getting at non-english posters. Bilbo meets many people in world who at some point apologise for their poor english but I've understood very well what they are saying. This, is done on the fly without the use of dictionaries or phrase books.
Surely posters who are taking time to get a message across would themselves benefit from making them as easily readable as possible?

And as for red text? .. Jee-zus!!!!

1. Exit from Second Life.
2. Perform case and letter order tampering on the appropriate parts of the xml files in the Second Life program files skins folder.
3. Start Second Life.
4. Provide screenshots.

I GOT IT!!! .... IT'S ENTHUSIASM!

Now what the hell was that post about?

So the Captain Kirk/William Shatner metaphor holds for those types of posters. (I did laugh at that.)

On the other hand Virrginia's in-character Victorian capitilisation is somehow charming rather then annoying. Perhaps because it is not arbitrary but rather comes across as a stilted accent which, in the circumstances, is appropriate.

I vote for stickiness of the OP too. I _may_ struggle to read through an affected post be it over CAPped, under-punctuated, run-on sentences. I will form certain assumptions about the writer which could be as kind as - "perhaps not a native English user" or as unkind as "idiot" or "trying to be cute but failing miserably - ignore".

In term of simply maximising legibility - fiddling with the colour of the default typeface should be advised against unless you know what you're doing.

There is a big difference between a "foreign accent" as it a effects e-text and a deliberate affectation. I haven't seen any evidence of xenophobia in this thread.

I believe the OP was addressing those users who through enthusiasm or naivete were adopting typing affectations which unbeknownst to them were decreasing the legibility of their posts. They can of course either take the advice in the spirit in which it was offered or ignore it.

Your style of writing doesn't really fall into that category of users as it is quite deliberate on your part and its use has been addressed in previous threads in this forum.

I agree wholeheartedly, Angel. However, it's still true that using nonstandard capitalization slows down most readers. I enjoy your wit and charm, but I find I occasionally skip your posts, especially when I'm in a hurry or fatigued, despite the gems I know might be hiding within. This is not criticism of your style; please continue to write as you so choose. It's just a fact for you to take into consideration and use or not as you see fit.

On another forum I frequented, there was a well-loved and very wise character who wrote using a Cockney accent. He posted hilarious stories and sage advice for the forum's subject. He would occasionally get criticised as it was difficult to read his posts, especially before one got used to his style. But I wouldn't have wanted him to change, any more than I'd want you to.

There need be no law against nonstandard typography. However, folks that use it should be aware of the ramifications. IMHO, that was the intent and effect of the original post here.

(And I need to learn to write text so that folks who don't speak English as a first language can decypher it, but that's for another day and another post!)

Exactly. Darn, I wish I could have written it that short and sweet to begin with.

While thinking about this post, I realized that the stuff about comprehension, and to a lesser extent, ease of reading is really a red herring. I think that many people, including myself, look to objective arguments as the best way to make a case in Internet forums.

But this is really about courtesy and cultural norms, which can be arbitrary and without solid foundation.

It's the same reason we avoid using profanities in certain places, speak louder or more softly depending on circumstances, etc. It's similar to saying things like please, thank you, or excuse me, or dressing appropriately. These are the conventions that are established, and people are expected to follow them the same as any other convention. That's what it means to be a convention.

Many people report difficulty with all caps, non-standard capitalizations, poor punctuation, etc. It's not really necessary that they prove that such things are harder for them, and it doesn't really matter that other people report having no problem. If you invite someone to dinner, and they say they're allergic to strawberries, you don't ask to see their doctor's diagnosis as proof; you simply take that into account, as a courtesy to the other person, ignoring the fact that other dinner guests might like strawberries.

The dinner party is a good metaphor for this in many ways. There are mutual courtesies between host and guests, and between writers and readers. Hosts prepare things that they expect will satisfy their guests and be enjoyable; guests don't complain about the brussel sprouts, they simply eat something else or just take a little. Writers should write with consideration of the readers, while readers don't point out every little error unless there's some special relevancy. But if the host makes haggis and lutefisk, with no reason to believe the guests have any interest in those, then it's within reason for a guest to ask for an alternative, and even inform the host, politely, that such a menu is quite inappropriate in that particular instance. If a writer uses all caps or no caps, then established social conventions on the Internet make it perfectly acceptable to ask the writer to use standard capitalizations - but again, such corrections must be polite.

It's all about being considerate of other people.

Mlgnae the cnetont of wdors as lnog as you rnietan the edns and slitl hvae cmeophseirn of oevr 75%, aoccdrnig to a Bithirs srevuey.

Though it can give you quite the headache.

I've never heard of anyone teaching people to read by the shape of the word. What you're mistaking for a learning paradigm is really just a trick that the human mind naturally uses to better interpret language. The brain uses all sorts of shortcuts to perform its amazing duties, and I would propose that anyone who doesn't see a benefit from them might actually have a neurological disability rather than a superior education. YOUCANTCONVINCEMETHISISNTMOREDIFFICULTTOPARSE than text formed according to the conventions of a given language.

Different people's minds work different ways. What is easy for you, Angelique, may be hard for others with similar educations.

Education actually has little to do with how our minds really work. New theories keep arising, causing different methods. For most students, the differences in results are minor. For students with learning disabilities, the methods that rely on theories of how most students learn can be disastrous.

My 79 year old mother (a retired lawyer) has similar difficulty reading unconventional prose, despite her classic "old-school" education. My very intelligent but severely dyslexic son is not at all disturbed by it, though reading for him is difficult in general. I doubt this has much to do with education methods, and suspect it has more to do with how different individuals' minds work.

I love haggis, I do.


*blinks*

In the 40's and 50's there was a Cinema Comedian named Leo Gorcey (Part of a troupe known as the Bowery Boys) who'd entire comedic style consisted of Butchering the English Language by replacement, and misuse of Polysylabic words. While you could Understand to a point what he was saying, it was Very Humerous how he could make sense without making any sense at all.

I keep seeing this brought up as an example:

But i don't Ever recall having seen an entire post done like this Except presented as an Exageration of other peoples writing style. Since this style Never actually occurs as someones natural way of typing a Normal Post i don't see the point of bringing it up. On the other hand, if the Actual post is structured:

Now by Internet standards that Is considered Raising ones Voice. It's considered Permissable, But Rude (Dude, Why are you Yelling at me?). If you are Talking about Rules of Grammar, and Punctuation then this form is never correct However, We, as a Net community have assigned a specific emotional meaning to it, and accept it within it's proper place.
Netspeak:

is an abbreviated form of speech that we, as Adults Usually attribute to the Very youthful. In it's place, Also completely acceptable. It annoys many of us, Mainly because it's the Youth Slang of today, and SL Is supposed to be an Adults Only Grid. I don't think there is any generation that didn't find the Youth Slang of it's Teens to be Incomprehensable.
My manner of Capping, (shared by another) and many of my Speech patterns and Idioms come from the Oposite Direction, They are Archaic.

I don't think my ability to Understand the written word is superior to anyone elses, Most probably not, as English is Not my First Language, and i Never completed my Highschool education. I just think If i can Understand what is being Typed here, pretty well anyone else should be able to as well, it simply doesn't strike me as being that Cryptic. I understand that people express themselves in a Number of ways, ones Hand on the keyboard in an environment like this Does become as distinct as ones speech in Real Life. This isn't a Lit Essay that one is going to submit for a Grade, it's a Conversation, and people are Typing more and more after the Informal fashion of Conversation. Because of this, I read everything, because Not doing so strikes me as Similar to Blowing somebody off because they speak with an accent In RL. I give equal consideration to Every post and Evaluate them on Content.

I'm NOT saying "OK EVERYBODY SHOULD GO AHEAD AND TYPE LIKE THIS" People should do what they Have been doing, and Experess themselves naturally. what i Am saying is Other should have a Little more Respect, Open your Mind a Little and Hear what people are Saying. If it's a Little hard to get at, Well, My Aunty always said people never value things they don't have to Work for.

Angel.