guaranteed investment ideas ?

L$100,000 is roughly $350 US Dollars.

Would you hand $350 US Dollars to a stranger on the street, just because he promised to return it with interest? Would you do so, even though you do not know their name or even what country they live in? Would you pass that money through a knothole in a fence, hearing only their voice, and being unable to see what they looked like? Or seeing only a typed message slipped through the knothole?

That is what you are doing when you pass L$100,000 to some other Player who promises you a return on your "investment". You have no way to track them down, no recourse if they take your money and run. The Lindens won't do a thing to help you.

You want a good return on that money? Cash it out for real Dollars and put it in a real bank.

Can money be made inside SL? Yes, if you work your tail off, and have a good business sense, and have the capital and time to invest. But less than 2% of all SL Players earn more L$ from in-world activities than they pay into SL. Less than 1% make enough of a profit to do more than buy dinner at a restaurant once a week for 3 people. Only a handful actually make a living wage working in SL.

Can you toss your "Excess L$" into some passive investment in SL, do no work, and make money? Not very likely, no.

What I look for in any investment in SL is transparency. You will find everything in SL from banks and funds which tell you everything about themselves and how they invest the money, real life names, backgrounds, etc. Then you will find some which don't tell you anything more than how to deposit and withdraw. You'll also notice that the banks and funds which give no information usually have much higher rates than the ones which do disclose a lot. risk/return ratio.

An example would be to look at what most consider to now be the three major "banks" in SL:

SL Bank. To my knowledge they are the second oldest bank in SL, after Ginko and they were here before the whole media hype brought in all these other noobie clone banks. SL Bank tells you how they invest the deposits, they give accounting, the have a web site with pictures of themselves in real life and their backgrounds. I even know people who met some of them at the Virtual Worlds Convention in NYC last month. They pay rates between .05 and .057% per day or about 23% per year. Lower than almost all other banks in SL, but they give a lot of info and don’t hide behind their SL avatars.

Then you have Ginko. Ginko has been around a long time, before the media hype, but discloses nothing, no real world name, no accounting on how they invest deposits and a refusal to disclose profitability, etc. They have however been around a long time (not that that is a good thing if the media is right and they are indeed a Ponzi) and they have a website. They pay a rate of about .09% per day last time I checked, or about 38% per year. A rate right about in the middle of most.

We also now have JT Financial. They have only been around a couple months, so could be a fly by night operation, or not. They also give no real world name and say they have a "secret system" and "secret program" in real life which they can't tell anyone about, which covers the rate. They also provide no accounting. They say they take money out of SL and invest it in the real world to cover rates, which is even shadier as when you withdraw money from SL, you must pay income tax on those funds. That, and in the real world especially, the only way to cover such rates would be to use the funds to buy and sell narcotics or to send the money to offshore accounts to use for gambling or gambling arbitrage, all of which is highly illegal and risky, especially for an American (he says he lives in Texas). Lastly, they could be a Ponzi. Their MASSIVE rate, however is VERY high and so people still invest, even with all the questions. They pay a massive rate of .2% per day or about 100% per year AND pay people who own their ATMs a % of any deposits made on that ATM.

Then we have all the new small banks which have popped up over the past few months. They offer all the rates in between what we have discussed here, but from what I have seen, none give any real world information or accounting. In most cases you don't know if it is an experienced economist running your bank or a 12 year old kid in their mom's basement playing bank.

So, as we can see from the above, there is a wide range of options. They seem to be greatly skewed to the high risk side (very few banks disclose who they are in real life or how they invest the funds), but there are a variety of options. From the lower risk lower return side (SL Bank) to the mega high return mega high risk side (JT Financial) and then everything in between.

Personally I invest a little money here and a little there. Diversification in the key, just like in real life. Lastly, I'd never invest more in Second Life as a whole than I'd be willing to lose in a micro-second (LL could shut down SL anytime, and all investment would be lost). I hope this little breakdown helps. Good luck whatever you do!

You say you already have money in this bank. If you can stomach the - enormous - risk factors already posted here, and you want to, ok, up to you. Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer cherce. It looks to me on a par with "investing" in options on future contracts on the CBOE. That means, if it's money you are willing to lose and won't gnash your teeth and rend your garments over, and you want to take a chance, risk it and see how you do. Could turn out great. Just make sure it is money out of your entertainment budget, because it is a gamble.

Guaranteed investment? There is to my knowledge one and only one absolutely sure-fire way to double your money: Fold it over and stick the wad in your pocket. Oh, and look out for pickpockets...

Apart from all the warnings about scammers and liers in SL, also remember that LL doesn't have to pay you anything if they have a server screw-up and your money magically dissappears! And don't think that that doesn't happen... just read the forums for a while to see how many people are victims of tech problems in SL. Anybody investing large sums of money into SL better do it because they are feeling generous and actually like playing in the game... otherwise, if you are justing looking for an investment, you are a fool to throw money at SL.

Nice post Pan. Add the World Stock Exchange to your list. Some companies are more transparent and have clearer business models than others. My company, Kush Islands (WSE:HOT), owns and operates the Kush estate. Our business is fairly transparent, as you can easily see our prices, costs, and occupancy. There are other companies listed on the WSE with much more obscure business models, like consulting groups or investment funds. It is much harder to see if their numbers are accurate. www.wselive.com is the website.

And trust is a key commodity in all SL financial matters. If you place your trust wisely, you can see a profit from passive investments.

ok ...this realy has nothing to do with the OP's question nor am i acusing Mr jasper Tizzy of any wrong doing ...For all i know he might be a realy nice bloke who offers a VERY good service and a VERY high return on such a small investment ...with all of that said ...

Con men in real life rely on the marks greed to draw them in ...People are told " Hey i have this ....its great ...i know you want it and i will give it to you ...and its realy easy "

The mark then thinks about it ...its this point that matters ... A little voice inside his head says "WOW ... IM GETTING SOMTHING HERE FOR NEXT TO NOTHING ..and ...I DON'T HAVE TO WORK TO GET IT "

Now two things happen ...greed kicks in and makes you want to go for this fantastic deal ... then your own sence of jugment is impaired and overruled by the greed , the mark reasons that its ok to do this ...its only a matter of trust ...shall i ..shall i not ?

The mark decides to go with the deal .... but its not good judgment doing the deal ...its greed .

Now i will state again ...I'm not saying that Linden bank is dodge or that Mr Tizzy is a con man , Your deal could be a real good thing if it turns out ...but then again you could stand to be taken to the cleaners if its not .

I just can't grasp how somone can give a return of 4k on a 50k investment and keep it going for a long period of time .

say 10 people invest 50k ... thats 40 k per month to pay out to the 10 people ...over a period of 10 months that's 400 k ... just on 10 investers ... thats USD 1,500

how is linden bank using the L$ to get that kind of money to give back such a high return .

Very, very thoughtful post by Pan Fan! The discourse on JT reminds me of a HUGE scandal which rocked San Diego, CA in the 80s. A guy named Jerry Dominelli started a company called "J. David." and soon became the toast of the town. He was a very high profile socialite and philanthropist. His girlfriend was the mayor or a city counselwoman from Del Mar. Dominelli claimed he had a"system" to profit by fluctuations in the world currency market. The mayor of San diego, roger Hedgecock was involved in this, perhaps unwittingly. I don't remember the details but Hedgecock burned when the whole thing crashed. He's now a talk show host in San Diego.

the guy who was instrumental in bringing all of this down was the Financial editor of the San Diego Union who kept saying, "this is too good to be true and it probably isn't." He wrote a book onthe subject called I believe "Captain Money and theGolden Girl." Domenelli and Nancy Hoover, the girlfriend were both convicted. I dont recall if hoover served time or not. Domenelli did. Hedgecock lost his office and I believe he had other problems as well. Countless people lost fortunes inthis scam. It turned out to be a ponzi scheme. I had a friend who lost his life savings in this mess.

Although it was too late to help many victims, CA and Federal authorities shut the thing down and Domenelli went to a Federal prison. For all he know he could be out now running scams in SL, although I have no info that he is.

LL's consistent turning a blind eye to scams in SL make it a fertile breeding ground for later day Jerry Domenellis and Nancy Hoovers.

i have a successfull business in SL, with vendors selling my products in over 50 sims now,
i have put NO RL money in to this business except for uploading textures and i'm sitting on
L$150,000 which has took me about 3 months to make, agreed its not RL money but considering how new the business is i think it's pretty good, so i'd say i have pretty good business sense.

currently my L$50,000 is earning me 1K a week, i guess it depends on how much you want to make but i'd rather it make me 1K a week than sit in my account doing nothing



thanks for everyones input so far, all very good points. hopefully people will read and might stop someone investing hastely and possibly making a mistake in future

I am one of the owners of Linden Bank, we are not a scam or a ponzi.

We buy land then develop the land. Some land we sell as fully setup homes or businesses, some we rent out. The land we rent out, is mostly on full sims with a city like look and feel to it. Roads, stores, homes, apartments, office suites and other community type things. We like to keep our rentals on a full sim to control the lag and the type of people we have in the city. No camping or club will come into our rented spaces and lag out the customers.

People ask how we can offer 5% in 30 days, it is real easy.

Example:
We buy a 4096 lot, aprox 50k L$ we then build 8 stores on the land, a mini shopping center. The we fill each store with furniture and full perm items to make it a full turn key business that we can sell to anyone, and they can have an instant business. The selling price of a store like this is from 20k to 50k each. So a 4096 lot with 8 stores will sell for aprox 200k We also finance the sale with 25% down and 20% intrest on the loan.

So if you gave me the 50k that i can buy a 4096 lot, then develop it and sell it in 30 days, would 4k maybe be too little to pay in intrest?
I could pay alot more and still not be a scam or ponzi.

I am in this for the long term, not just a scam and leave. Im 44 yrs old retired businessman. The real USD value of 50k is the cost of a good dinner out with my wife. If I need to bail out and steal 50k, then what has life come to

Im building a new future business in SL and plan to be here for many years to come.

Well, 13.94/month minus slechange and paypal fees, Still a profit, but not as good after you look at fees to get the USD.

Compared with any RL investment in percentage terms, it's still outstanding. But factor in risk, and you've got a different story.

I believe it's listed on NYSE as WOOT too... kidding

junk bonds are not illegal

wtp r u tawkin bout?

post up links to your sims and developments and turn key businesses for sale

Here are a few places we currently have, plus more in my partners account.

Parcel Name Location Size
Countless Galaxies - Talyn... Talyn (128,144) 43,520
Countless Galaxies - Talyn Talyn (56,16) 1,024
Countless Galaxies - Talyn Talyn (100,16) 1,792
Countless Galaxies - Talyn Talyn (144,112) 1,024
LADE Home - Countless... Talyn (20,16) 1,280
Countless Galaxies - Talyn Talyn (110,4 1,152
Greecian Villa - Countless... Koschuta (160,96) 4,096
International Stock... Talyn (110,112) 1,152
Countless Galaxies -... Horisme (96,12 35,136
Countless Galaxies - Koschuta Koschuta (32,32) 4,096
Countless Galaxies -... Koschuta (224,224) 4,096
DOMI - Countless Galaxies -... Koschuta (16,112) 1,024
Worldwide Connect - Tvoran Tvoran (96,32) 4,096
Countless Galaxies -... Koschuta (96,12 33,792
RYLO - Countless Galaxies -... Koschuta (16,80) 1,024
Countless Galaxies - Talyn Talyn (110,80) 1,152
Victorian Estate -... Koschuta (224,96) 4,096
Barcelona Estate -... Koschuta (160,32) 4,096
Countless Galaxies -... Koschuta (224,160) 4,096
Hillsdale Estate -... Koschuta (224,32) 4,096
Countless Galaxies - Talyn Talyn (178,112) 1,152
Linden Bank - extra prim Acrocorinth (132,204) 64
Linden Bank Mini Mall Acrocorinth (8,20 512
Linden Bank - Solha Solha (70,22) 144
Linden Bank Foxboro Banking... Foxboro (32,100) 256
Linden Bank Mini Mall Acrocorinth (8,176) 512
Linden Bank Mini Mall Acrocorinth (40,174) 448
Linden Bank - Belphegor Belphegor (40,76) 128
Linden Bank Mini Mall Acrocorinth (56,174) 448
Linden Bank Mini Mall Acrocorinth (24,210) 448
Linden Bank - Acrocorinth... Acrocorinth (40,192) 384
Linden Bank Mini Mall Acrocorinth (24,174) 448
Linden Bank Mini Mall Acrocorinth (40,210) 448
Linden Bank - Elvarg Elvarg (68,216) 112
Linden Bank Mini Mall Acrocorinth (56,210) 448
EverLite Modeling Agency Foxboro (34,122) 1,232
Fashion Show Venue 4 Sale Foxboro (16,72) 512
(PG) NEW CONTINENT! NICE... Foxboro (16,8 512
Fashion Show Venue - Foxboro Foxboro (48,72) 512
CLASS 5 Foxboro Green Flat Foxboro (52,104) 512
Linden Bank - Namgyal - 21504 Namgyal (226,172) 10080
LOAN w/25% Linden Bank Namgyal - 2 Namgyal (184,196) 576
wow- fast sale here Herald (80,224) 10240
Linden Bank - Financing Available Marcell (208,20 1024
Linden Bank - Financing Available Marcell (240,144) 1024
Linden Bank - Financing Available Marcell (240,20 1024
Linden Bank - Project y883 Mounford (64,192) 16384
Linden Bank - Calvados Banking Center Calvados (88,12 0
LOAN w/25% Linden Bank Namgyal - 6 Namgyal (184,100) 576
Linden Bank Stephenson (234,24) 0
Linden Bank - Financing Available Muhongo (98,226) 3056
Linden Bank - Financing Available Marcell (208,176) 1024
(M) ML Namgyal Namgyal (150,120) 1408
(M) ML Namgyal Namgyal (140,12) 576
Lets Get Married - The Wedding Center Mens Depot (192,64) 0
Linden Bank - Ranthambore Banking Center Ranthambore (240,176) 1024
Linden Bank - Homes Namgyal (150,32) 704
Linden Bank Shops - Calvados Calvados (56,12 0
Linden Bank - Ranthambore Prim Ranthambore (24,20 512
(M) ML Namgyal Namgyal (150,54) 1232
Linden Bank - Financing Available Marcell (240,176) 1024
LOAN w/25% Linden Bank Namgyal - 3 Namgyal (184,16 768
(M) ML Namgyal Namgyal (162,12) 480
SL Shopping Center Headquarters Ethmia (172,80) 17472
Linden Bank - Nolan Banking Center Nolan (98,174) 0
LOAN w/25% Linden Bank Namgyal - 1 Namgyal (184,232) 1152
Linden Bank Stephenson Banking Center Stephenson (198,19 0
Linden Bank Prim Nolan (16,240) 0
Linden Bank - Nolan Banking Center Nolan (52,174) 0
HOUSE + LAND >>> 512sq.m. for sale Herald (168,144) 512
Linden Bank - Homes Namgyal (150,86) 1584
Linden Bank - Financing Available Marcell (208,144) 1024
Linden Bank - Financing Available Marcell Marcell (224,240) 2048
LOAN w/25% Linden Bank Namgyal - 3 Namgyal (184,122) 480
LOAN w/25% Linden Bank Namgyal - 3 Namgyal (184,142) 480
new, green Koschuta (80,16) 1024

The above brings up some questions for me.

1. Market saturation. Sure, the first time you sell one of your mini-mall plots with your full transfer/resell items included, someone may pay a good deal for that, lets say 200k. But once you sell the same thing again to the next customer, due to the lack of novelty and the fact someone can already buy the items in question from the previous buyer, the resale value will drop slightly, let’s say to 195k. As you sell another mini mall with the same goods with full perms to another client, this further increases supply of these items into the market and thus further drives down resale prices. Eventually no one would want to buy the mini-mall with full perm items as there are already a bunch of people selling the same items in a similar store, which they bought from you.

2. If you have items already created, which sell, why not simply open your own store, sell the items and collect the revenue, rather than putting in all the real world labor and opportunity cost to clone these mini-malls and items for resale, while at the same time paying out interest payments, land tier fees for the bank's land, fees for your bank's database and customer service expenses (labor hours)?

3. Your calculations don’t seem to account for land tier fees.

4. You say you are a 44 year old retired business man. That's great and all, but it doesn't really have any value unless you disclose who you are in real life. I could, for example, open a bank and tell everyone I'm a PhD from Harvard who manages billions of USD for a major investment fund, but without disclosing who I am in real life, there is no way for anyone to verify what I am saying is true, and so the mention of my credentials should be moot. Do you disclose who you are in real life? This would be accountability.

5. Saying that stealing 50k would not be worth your time, may be correct, but in reality, you more than likely will have millions of L$ in deposit overtime, which is a lot and may well be worth stealing especially for someone from a developing country or for the unemployed.

6. Then there are economies of scale. Sure, the first million you get may be easy to invest and thus get a return on, but as your deposits grow, how will you continue to pay such a rate? There are only so many mini-malls which can be sold and only so much land which can be flipped.

Just some thoughts. My main concern is transparency. Does the banker in question have the “balls” to disclose who they are in real life, and if not, why? By disclosing who you are in real life you can greatly decrease the risk/return ration people compute as they make investment decision, which would increase the bank’s profits and all by doing almost noting at all. If one does not disclose who they are in RL, then one must conclude that they must have something to hide. It could be how they invest the deposits (illegal activities) or it could be the fact they don’t have real world credentials which would allow them to be considered a worthy bank manager (a 12 year old in their mom’s basement) or because they are a Ponzi planning to eventually run with the money. Lastly it could be for private reasons, but really, this is finance, if you want to hide your identity go sell shirts or skins. When it comes to finance and investing, transparency and accountability are priority #1.

It's very refreshing to see someone come forward and talk about what they are doing.

I can't vouch for the accuracy of the information presented, but at least it is up for scrutiny, people can look at what is going on and check for signs of actual healthy business, &c &c.

A question, though. Since this is ostensibly so profitable, can you not afford $L 50k to reinvest on your own, after making $L 200k on the first deal?

Why the need to borrow $L 50k again from other people at very painful rates to yourself?

How about a 3rd party service that legitimate SL banks can register with and when they register RL contact details are exchaged say a phone number and a RL mailing address ( not po boxes or business adresses ) and after mail exchanged both ways then that person is classed as registered.

being registered would mean that if the person dissapears for X amount of time or blatently rips somone off then the RL contact details would be passed to the " victim " only.

there would be a list of registered banks / people in SL which would give investors some peace of mind .



just a thought guys , would the above work ?

Ive been using Ginko from day one and have never had any complaints. To begin with like everyone else I wanted to make some free L$ and every L$ counted (interest rates were a shed load better back then). Nowadays, more out of habit than needing the return, I pay in 10K - 20K a week, very minor % of my earnings and easy to write off if it disapears. Thats the key for me, never invest any more than you can afford to loose without any repercusions. As allot of others have pointed out here, there is no assurance that any investments in SL is legitimate, and even if they are legit there is nothing to stop them walking off with your money at some point. As your Bank Manager has already posted to validate his authenticity then you can be reasonablly sure he is legit, however he may walk out of his front door tomorrow morning and get crushed by a horde or rampaging Yak's, at the same time, his business partners decide to become transexuals and move to Tibet to open a bingo hall. At the end of the day, although these poeple are running a business within a virtual world, there's generally only a couple of people behind it and they must react to RL and SL which could result in the company closing and your investment disapearing. Allot more riskier than RL commercial investment.

The best investment you can make in SL is time. Spend your L$ on land, learn to build, learn to script..BECOME THE BEST and you won't need to worry about investing your money in SL as you will be too busy trying to evade the taxman in RL with all your glorious earnings

Good question. I'd like to know the answer.

if the bank is making 200K on 50K i hardly see 4K as being very painfull

and the more money the bank has the more it can invest surely ?

Yes, but Desmond's point is that business owners can borrow money for much lower rates from established financial institutions than what these "banks" are paying to borrow your money.

Why would I need to borrow money from a bunch of individual residents upon which I must pay 50% or more interest annually, when I can go to lendingtree.com and get a loan for well under 10%?

More specifically, if you just made $L 150k or some such, why does one need to borrow any money at all?

If this plan really works, then after two or three re-investment rounds you'll be sitting on about 1/4 million $L, free and clear, without borrowing anything from anyone.

My thoughts exactly. Of course if you just pocketed the profits and continued to use OPM to buy land, you can continue enjoying zero accountablity if the bottom of this plan falls out and goes to shit.

Edit: The very reason I would never invest in a "bank" (using the term loosely) like this.