Gambling - Outside US servers?

I've just returned from holiday to find out that gambling is now banned from SL because of the possible threat of action under US gambling laws/CC transactions.

My question is this. If I purchased an island with it's own dedicated server placed outside of the US in a gambling friendly territory/country would I be in breach of SL's new policy and also exempt from US gov't "dictat"? My reasoning is that LL have clamped down on this because of the physical location of their servers rather than any moral sense they might have. So is it possible and how would one go about it?

I don't want to hear any anti-gambling trolls' comments, we know your views already and any post would just confirm your lack of literacy and troll credentials. And I would presume a dedicated island not calling on grid resources would meet with the approval/non-dissent of the anti-lag lobby as well.

Also could somebody please clarify whether it is legal in the US to play small stakes games (such as poker) in your own home with friends? I hope I don't have to go into detail to explain the ramifications of this if it is indeed correct.

Dude, you pretty much put up a huge "TROLL ME" flag there.

"My reasoning is that LL have clamped down on this because of the physical location of their servers rather than any moral sense they might have. So is it possible and how would one go about it?" I have wondered about this myself, but it seems if it was possible, someone would have by now.

"Also could somebody please clarify whether it is legal in the US to play small stakes games (such as poker) in your own home with friends?" nope, like the ban in SL if you betting money it's not legal, but is usually over looked.

Online gambling isn't illegal in the US, facilitating it via electronic payments is. There's also the issue that Robin Linden has been quoted as saying this is a business decision and another LL spokesperson said they wanted to broaden the appeal of the platform globally.

It's not just an issue that gambling in SL may have broken UIGEA laws, there's also the issue that it was unregulated full stop.

Moving your server to say the UK, to comply with the law here you still need to be licensced and regulated, you can't just setup a gambling company. So it's not just a matter of the location of the server.

Gambling for money at your friends house in most countries is technically illegal. I know down my local pub you're not allowed to gamble but the law generally has better things to do than to be bothered about friends having a bit of fun for a few quid.

Yes, you can play penny ante poker at home.

Here in the States, home poker games are legal in some places and illegal and others. There is no Nationawide law on anything pertaining to Gambling, at least Real World gambling. Rules on gambling are decided by the individual States and municipalities.I may be able to play poker in my town, but my friend in the next town over can't.Her town may allow a Church Casino Night, and mine won't.

Also, theres the simple issue that no provision exists to do what you suggest anyways.

Sy, at the moment you'd be best to play safe and presume that as the money transactions are processed through LL in the form of Linden Dollars that gambling would be a no-no even if your server is hosted outside the USA.

William Hill offer a service in the UK, where you can pay in cash at one of thier shops. They will then credit your online account. This enables you to gamble online without the need for electronic payment. Could a service like this be used in the US to get around the online laws?

I Know the set up of this is huge, this is just a hypothetical question.

I was reading a poker website the other day that offered a facility similar to this for US players but I'm not sure whether it is legit or not.

maybe they could set up a sister company outside the us with a couple of servers. The sims could be private so not appearing on the map. Or even a separate grid.

it does not matter what you do. the law does not illegalize online gambling it illegalizes banks and credit cards to work with/transfer cash to online stuff that has gambling, except in the case of horse racing, and state lotteries.

No. SL does not support dedicated servers (yet). Even when they do:

You would still need a gambling license in the country the server is in.

SL's asset servers and payment processing is still based in the US.

And another major issue - Paypal does not accept gambling-related activity, nor do they support adult-related activity, which is going to the next thing that's gonna blow up in LL's face IMO.

there is something called "open sim" in the works for open sourcing the servers but for now you can't hook a server up to SL so you must play by SL rules which is american based. When this open sim is released which will be awhile me thinks then you can find a server is some unregulated country and make your casino yes. Whether or not LL allows you to hook it up to the main grid (not sure yet how they will be working this dedicated server sim in your basement thingy yet) will remain to be seen. Right now as it stands they are going to be the backbone. I see no reason why they would not allow you to hook your server up if its in the appropriate country blah blah blah but that probably has to be thought about.

Oh no? I can think of several, actually.

\

and right now the odds of their ever being an "open source sim" that hooks into LL Second life are vanishingly small since most countrys currently are holding the Service providers partly responsible for the criminal activities of any individual user. (its the first place a "John doe" or "person or persons unknown" warant lands when they are doing an investigation, and since they bascialy end up paying in time and resorces to retreive the information requested by the warant, its not realy in their best interests to let others in without somehow getting reembursed for the effort)

argggh forum warriors at work lol i was just answering the post from what i know of open sourced sim project so far I have no idea what LL will do re: online gambling. If they are trying to resemble the internet in the end your guess is as good as mine as what they will pull outa their hat when the time comes to hook em up ^^

For all the reasons stated above, your idea will not work. Primarily the laws regarding credit card processing. Linden Labs can be held accountable for providing the access using the same laws that don't allow credit cards to process online gaming.

I've made some negative comments regarding gaming in some other threads, but I'm not a "troll" as you say. It's not that I'm against gaming, it's just a waste of time. While there may be some ways out there to circumvent the laws somehow, I don't believe that LL is interested enough. I don't believe the economy will be as adversely affected as others have made out, at least not in the long run. Short term maybe. LL is really putting their focus on other areas, primarily bringing in more corporate clients. I think gaming is low enough on their list of concerns that it really should be considered dead.

okay but i'm not arguing with you if you say so I believe you as i said i'm simply stating that when the open sim project goes live which may be like a long time if LL remains the one and only backbone and money is channeled through them its possible they wont allow it HOWEVER they may not remain the backbone at that time they may simply become one of many "hosting providers" like the hosting services all around the world and a "main grid" may no longer exist the grid will become no longer an intratnet but an internet. So yes if LL remains the sole provider of it its very possible casinos and gambling will not be allowed BUT as i stated right now they are the only backbone. IN the future they may not be. There may be backbones all over the world connected similarly to the internet and billing will channel through them. Remember one of the largest issues is database scalability its been proven its NOT scalable so in the future if this is to go and become an internet and not an intranet as it is now billing may no longer be centralized. Like you I am guessing. YOur running on the premise will be the sole service provider. Since they will be opening the source code for just about everything there is no reason to believe that Joe blow in Monoco wont open up his own SL and there may not really be a main thing and people will navigate to sites as they do now via the internet and go gamble in "virtual morocco SL" or whatever. If the blling remains centralized in the US and LL makes all the decisions as it is now about billing etc yes as i said if you read it i say if they remain the main backbone its possible you wont be able to connect. IF THEY REMAIN the main backbone. I see no reason that this will happen and I see no reason that other backbones wont develop over time andI see no reason that there will even be one 'main grid" things will change when the entier LL guts are exposed. So we are just guessing. One thing is definite if you can find a host that will host a casino on that country and move money a casino sim can and will exist. The only thing remains to be seen is HOW they will get there nothing more

Sorry Sy but Lindens labs is on a ban roll sex will be next and comeing as soon as this place recovers from the last ban and wse/ginko crap..alot has happened science ya went on holiday..none to great. LL is just as bad at running a company as they are at running SL

Gosh, isn't it just so nice of Linden Lab to provide you this forum service, on their own secondlife.com website, on *their* dime, for you to post such drivel?

I'm getting exceedingly tired of the anti Linden Lab sentiment going on in RA, to the point where I no longer even sympathize with the underlying causes of your frustrations.

Go play There or something.

And to the OP, I am one of those anti gambling trolls you speak of, and it's not for any moral conviction, but rather because gambling in Second Life was such a clusterf*#k of unmitigated fraud and ripoff artistry. Not to mention the sim resource hog a typical "casino" was with its camping and script load. I was delighted to hear of the ban, and will happily support it by ARing any casino I encounter in my travels about the grid. Good friggin riddance, and for those who didn't see the writing on this wall, and cash out gracefully while they had time, me so sorry you make bad choice.

Onward.

I agreed with much of what you said, Zaphod. This line I had to give a standing ovation. One of the biggest complaints was there was no advance warning. NO ADVANCE WARNING? If you own a casino and this caught you off guard then you have only yourself to blame for running a business while keeping your head in the ground.

well true --

If having to change their name to Kacino wasnt warning .. I dont know ..

So don't come moaning when it effects your business. The writing is on the wall for sex and violence too. Whatever knock on effect that has, don't come moaning.

As long as the service is available on American Computers, the location of the Server would be irrelevant under the current laws, and the person Running the games Could be charged under US laws. They would just await your next visit to US soil to pick you up rather than waste time and money on extradition procedings.

Angel.