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1.9.1 --> 1.10.0!

Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
05-16-2006 02:39
From: Zi Ree
Version numbers are not math, they are numbers :)

If this is wrong, can you provide a source where the definitive specification on versioning numbers can be found?

As you said yourself, IP addresses are not math. So why can the same not be true for versioning numbers?
Indeed, which also shows why decimals shouldn't be used in version numbering...
Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
05-16-2006 02:56
From: Joannah Cramer
There's no "correct" version numbering (just because something "used" to be certain way doesn't mean this is one and only way it "should" be... there "used" to be no computers, to begin with, or program version numbers for that matter)

Version indicator is generally a few numbers separated with dots and the order of importance going left-to-right. As long as these numbers increase as time goes and software develops, so you can tell at glance if the version of software is more recent than one you have, that's pretty much all that matters. Any further 'rules' attached to it, that's just varying level of anal-retentiveness...
Oh, and more and more .#s aren't anal-retentive?? Give me a freakin' break. "Version 1.9" I can accept, but anything beyond that is just unnecessarily complicated. If a program has THAT many revisions its development should be reevaluated. Why do you think most major software apps (like Windows) don't bother with version #s anymore (on public releases)? Years/dates (2000) are a better indication, but acronyms (ME, XP) are just confusing. Adobe and Macromedia (which Adobe now owns, I believe) tend to use acronyms (or alphanumeric), but they are getting away from version numbering too.
Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
05-16-2006 03:09
From: Eep Quirk
Oh, and more and more .#s aren't anal-retentive??

No, as long as one doesn't insist theirs is the 'only right' way of marking software version that everyone else should follow...

From: someone
Why do you think most major software apps (like Windows) don't bother with version #s anymore (on public releases)?

My dxdiag says:

Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, build 2600)

Just because they no longer shove the version number in your face doesn't mean it's not there...
Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
05-16-2006 03:18
From: Joannah Cramer
No, as long as one doesn't insist theirs is the 'only right' way of marking software version that everyone else should follow...
Consistency would be nice...

From: Joannah Cramer
My dxdiag says:

Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, build 2600)

Just because they no longer shove the version number in your face doesn't mean it's not there...
Duh, but notice it's not 5.1.2600 PUBLICALLY. However, checking explorer.exe's properties reveals a ghastly 6.0.2900.2180. I never said version numbers weren't still there on some level--just not shoved in the user's face, unlike SL's version numbering...
Zi Ree
Mrrrew!
Join date: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 723
05-16-2006 03:45
From: Eep Quirk
Indeed, which also shows why decimals shouldn't be used in version numbering...

So why should they be used on IPv4 addresses?
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Joannah Cramer
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Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
05-16-2006 04:30
From: Eep Quirk
Duh, but notice it's not 5.1.2600 PUBLICALLY. However, checking explorer.exe's properties reveals a ghastly 6.0.2900.2180. I never said version numbers weren't still there on some level--just not shoved in the user's face, unlike SL's version numbering...

True, but Windows and Second Life client are distributed in quite different manner. If SL client only underwent single real (but major) revision every 1-2 years, then i see how it could be distributed as "Second Life for Virtual Businessman" or "Third Life for Home user" or "Fourth Life, Multimedia edition" with maybe "Service Pack" or something released every now and then. And you could get away with it, as frequency of updates just isn't large enough to introduce confusion about what you really have.

But when you upgrade things often then you can run out of cute names fast, and numbers are convenient. It's just the difference between "1.10.0 or maybe 1.9.1" that hardly matters ^^;;
Gabriel Spinnaker
16052 LSL BYTES FREE
Join date: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 73
05-16-2006 04:48
You know who Eep reminds me of?...
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Strife Onizuka
Moonchild
Join date: 3 Mar 2004
Posts: 5,887
05-16-2006 10:41
It tickels me that they went to 1.10, I'd been hoping they would, just for the absurdity factor. Course by changing the version number they can justify setting back the release date 3 weeks.
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Cristiano Midnight
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Join date: 17 May 2003
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05-16-2006 11:08
From: Michi Lumin



Except... there aren't anymore.


What did they remove?
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Feynt Mistral
Registered User
Join date: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 551
05-16-2006 22:33
From: Cristiano Midnight
What did they remove?


The pretty new shaders, which for the most part have been replaced by the older model currently in use in the main grid (or at least, it looks a lot like it). Some people (most notably people with older hardware, but some people without the acumen to update their drivers) found that the new shaders weren't working as well, or at all, for them and did nothing but complain. >P

I still say there should be a debug menu option to enable the pretty new shaders for those of us who actually can use them, and also as incentive for people who can't (for one reason or another) to do something about it. They don't need to turn them on though, and we can all live in harmony.
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
05-17-2006 00:43
From: Zi Ree
So why should they be used on IPv4 addresses?
The math behind subnetworks is far more comprehensive than version numbering.
Zi Ree
Mrrrew!
Join date: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 723
05-17-2006 01:17
Still, IP addresses are written out like decimal numbers, using too many dots :) Besides, grouping IP addresses to four decimal numbers is confusing, if you watch it from a subnet point of view. To be really correct, you'd have to write out IP addresses as binary numbers.

Version numbers do not have any standard, so everyone is free to choose which numbering scheme they want to use. A widely used and accepted way still is to use major.minor.patchlevel, all of those numbers being independant and not to be viewed as decimal fractions (too many dots there as well). If you don't like the numbering scheme, that's too bad, but it doesn't make it wrong or the people using it lazy. They just chose to use a numbering scheme that doesn't tent do your taste.
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CJ Carnot
Registered User
Join date: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 433
05-17-2006 04:33
From: Eep Quirk
Versions ARE based on decimals and, hence, should follow decimal format convention.


No, really, they're NOT based on decimals any more than IP addresses.

They are and always have been nothing but a naming convention.

No one carries out arithmetic on version numbers do they ? the result
would be meaningless whether or not decimal convention were followed.

It would also be meaningless to give a sw point release a whole number
simply to follow decimal convention. SL 2.0 this month ? I think not !
Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
05-17-2006 06:29
From: CJ Carnot
No, really, they're NOT based on decimals any more than IP addresses.
Yes they are.

From: CJ Carnot
They are and always have been nothing but a naming convention.
No they haven't.

From: CJ Carnot
No one carries out arithmetic on version numbers do they ? the result
would be meaningless whether or not decimal convention were followed.
Counting is arithmetic.

From: CJ Carnot
It would also be meaningless to give a sw point release a whole number
simply to follow decimal convention. SL 2.0 this month ? I think not !
There was no reason to move to 1.10 when 1.9.xx works fine (but "1.9 build xx" works better).
Marcus Moreau
frand
Join date: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 602
05-17-2006 06:32
/112/01/107106/1.html

Vote and make your voice be heard! ;)

MM
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Striker Wolfe
.
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 355
05-17-2006 08:08
From: Feynt Mistral
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen Linden
* Hardware lighting (albeit not as exciting as the initial implementation)
* Vertex shaders (again, less exciting than the initial implementation, but still there)


We'll be wanting these back at their previous coolness at some point, hopefully before the end of summer. Or even better, if you could slip them into the debug menu somewheres so people who COULD use them can enjoy them until a later date (and also as inspiration for others to upgrade their video cards)....
.



Yes, Yes, Yes Feynt I cannot agree with you more!
Shaun Wallaby
Registered User
Join date: 30 Mar 2005
Posts: 7
05-17-2006 08:50
From: Eep Quirk

There was no reason to move to 1.10 when 1.9.xx works fine (but "1.9 build xx" works better).


Version numbers were never met to be used as a math number, because it is mainly a way for record keeping for the company. I've seen companies use words for version numbers, too. There is even a version number with numbers and a letter at the end like "1.15.7c".

If you continue to think version numbers are suppose to be math, you are just going to drive yourself crazy. It's been around for ages and I've see whole bunch of ways to show a version number. Lindens use the simplist version of the version number system.
Pingviini Saarinen
Registered User
Join date: 3 Jan 2006
Posts: 5
05-17-2006 11:42
From: Eep Quirk
IP addresses aren't versions, however. Versions ARE based on decimals and, hence, should follow decimal format convention.


This is one of the many instances where the somewhat unfortunate traditional period decimal separator as used in many english-speaking countries causes people to confuse arbitrary strings with decimal numbers.

Of course, version and revision strings usually are not completely arbitrary, otherwise they'd be useless for version control - but version control systems at least have rarely ever treated them as decimal numbers (for instance good old RCS, which dates back to the early 80s and lives on in CVS and many other modern version control systems will happily produce "1.10" revisions). The decimal numbers in those strings are in fact between the periods - and they are integers.
Feynt Mistral
Registered User
Join date: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 551
05-17-2006 12:37
To end the bickering, all version referals will henceforth be made 01/10/00. Eep can't complain impotently that /'s make no sense in a version string and others can't argue with him that they do. Because they DO, and have for as long as dates have been recorded in the DD/MM/YY format. Especially since 2000 (01/01/00).

Now shake hands and play nice children. >P
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Burnman Bedlam
Business Person
Join date: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,080
Omfg
05-17-2006 12:40
I have to say...

I never thought I would see such a raging debate over a version numbering system. Here's the version # for Windows XP on my work PC:

6.0.2900.2180.xpsp_sp2_gdr.050301-1519

That's Microsoft for you... no wonder so many people hate them. They have a "whack" version numbering system.

hehehe
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Eloise Pasteur
Curious Individual
Join date: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,952
05-17-2006 14:55
Eep, I think you are wrong. The grapheme . is rendered in a number of phonemes (dot, point, full stop, period etc.) just in the English speaking world, and with a number of meanings. We rely on the context to distinguish between them, and repitition changes the meaning again, and the phoneme, into an ellipsis.

And insisting it is a decimal point is also wrong, 1.1+0.1=2.0 is entirely correct in binary, the point notation is merely a convetional divider between n^0 and n^-1 irrespective of the base you are working in: it has no special "decimal" meaning.

In addition, even in places where is does specifically carry the decimal point notation convention changes the way we treat it. 3.14 is usually read as three point one four by the mathematically literate. The same number with a small change $3.14 is read as 3 dollars and 14 cents - the meaning is not changed but the conventions by which we discuss it has.

You are obviously deeply unhappy with the concept of a 'version point' but the context of 1.9.1 or 1.7.5 or 1.10.0 provides enough information for it to be unambiguously read as something other than a decimal point - even though you hate it, it performs the basic function required of the system - clearly communicating to the users, including you.

If you want something to really froth about, I was recently shown some statistics for the NHL season. The best goaltender in the set that I saw had a save percentage of 0.967 I think it was. Why do they bother if they only save less than 1% of the shots on goal - that's not implicit, new meanings evolving etc., it's just WRONG.
Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
05-17-2006 15:59
From: Eep Quirk
Yes they are.


No, they aren't. There's no math beyond simple counting in version numbers, the decimals are just placeholders. Thats why updates as a third place to the figure - 1.8.9, as opposed to one 1.89.
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Haravikk Mistral
Registered User
Join date: 8 Oct 2005
Posts: 2,482
05-17-2006 17:02
Does it really matter?
Though my opinion is they shoulda just stuck with 1.9.x since it's less confusing IMO :)
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jrrdraco Oe
Insanity Fair
Join date: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 372
05-17-2006 17:33
jeez I really dont think switching numbers would fix the issues already in that version
Feynt Mistral
Registered User
Join date: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 551
05-17-2006 18:47
Enough, this pointless debate has gone on for pages. You're all wrong, simply because you can't leave it alone. >P
Let's worry about the rapidly approaching release date and finding more bugs to report, not how to specify what bloody version it is.
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