Resmod Opt-Out?
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
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02-27-2006 18:15
From: Cybin Monde on the other hand, what if someone like Marcos F became a ResMod and started shoving people around and acting in a corrupt manner.. i tend to think that Armord would suffer because of that. (not that i think such a thing would ever occur, just using an extreme example) marcus fettucinni would never ever accept a resmod position because it is a lose lose situation. From: someone i value who i am here and would hate to do things to turn the opinion at large against me. not that opinion is what guides my actions, but it's a valued by-product of who i am. so while it's not necessarily a barring factor in all cases, there are some where it is an important one. so you are saying that your efforts to preserve your reputation will be undermining your ability to perform your responsibilities as a resmod?
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Cybin Monde
Resident Moderator (?)
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,468
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02-27-2006 18:28
From: Jauani Wu marcus fettucinni would never ever accept a resmod position because it is a lose lose situation. we are talking about the same person yes? Fonzarelli.. in any case, yes.. i know. i'm sure he wouldn't choose to be a ResMod. well, most likely anyway.. point is, i used him as an example because he's someone i respect and he's my neighbor in Miramare. [/QUOTE]so you are saying that your efforts to preserve your reputation will be undermining your ability to perform your responsibilities as a resmod?[/QUOTE] not at all. for me, it's almost a moot point. i act the same whether i'm a ResMod or not. i treat people the same, i act the same and my pattern of speech is the same. i don't need to adjust my behaviour to moderate responsibly. i'm just saying, if i abused this power, then my reputation would suffer for it. i value my reputation. thus, reputation, in some cases, is important to a SLer and would possibly help prevent one from abusing their power.
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
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02-27-2006 19:42
From: Cybin Monde not at all. for me, it's almost a moot point. i act the same whether i'm a ResMod or not. i treat people the same, i act the same and my pattern of speech is the same. i don't need to adjust my behaviour to moderate responsibly.
i'm just saying, if i abused this power, then my reputation would suffer for it. i value my reputation. thus, reputation, in some cases, is important to a SLer and would possibly help prevent one from abusing their power. well it's true, because it's easy to remain unchanged in some respects if LL only chooses sycophants for the position. the question remains, what holds you in check besides your word? what agency is there to keep you and your brethren in line? i need substance for you to change my view. why is jennyfur's post still in this forum? duh!
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Mecha Jauani Wu hero of justice __________________________________________________ "Oh Jauani, you're terrible." - khamon fate
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Isablan Neva
Mystic
Join date: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 2,907
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02-27-2006 20:25
*says quietly*
Perhaps the smartest thing of all for LL to do is keep rotating Resmods until they find the ones that actually have the right temperament and skill set to moderate effectively and then quietly hire those folks as new Linden moderators, will full responsibility and rights. The community ends up feeling like their voices have been heard and the Resmod program scrapped, LL gets a set of tested moderators and those moderators carry the full weight and accountability of a “Linden” last name.
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StoneSelf Karuna
His Grace
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,955
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02-27-2006 20:44
are you speaking in an official capacity? or just for yourself?
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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02-27-2006 21:15
From: Cybin Monde Jauani, while you do make a valid point about ResMods not having much to lose, i have to admit there's a convincing counter-arguement i read somewhere else.. i forget who said it and when. anyway, the basic premise was that (some) ResMods DO have a lot to lose.. reputation. if someone who runs an operation of any kind in SL becomes a ResMod, they had best behave themselves and perform as fairly and decently as possibly, lest they sully their reputation and tus harm their in-world business as a direct effect of that. . Counter Counter - if someone is going to abuse thier power, chances are they don't like the recipeint in world and the recipient doesn't like them much either. Who loses what?
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Cybin Monde
Resident Moderator (?)
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,468
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attemptng to clarify
02-27-2006 22:16
From: Jauani Wu well it's true, because it's easy to remain unchanged in some respects if LL only chooses sycophants for the position.
the question remains, what holds you in check besides your word? what agency is there to keep you and your brethren in line? i need substance for you to change my view.
why is jennyfur's post still in this forum? duh! i would hope sycophants would NOT be the preferred choice for ResMods. as far as my bretheren/sisteren(?), i can not answer for them as there is little in place besides loss of ResMod status and possible SL disciplinary actions to keep any/all of us in check. however, as far as who i CAN answer for, that being myself, the answer really boils down to one thing.. personal conviction. personal conviction keeps me in check. i invite you to search out my past, as has been performed on other ResMods. it is personal convictions that have driven my involvement on these forums since my first post and will continue to guide me unto the future. my entire two year+ history is the evidence i provide. my perseverance as a ResMod.. both resident and moderator, is what i present as evidence of my intent. i honestly wish this was my job, i honestly would love to be employed as a moderator.. no, it's not easy.. i don't garner many friends by being a moderator, but i am a strong believer in this world. i relish being able to delve into this world of ours and do anything i can to help its evolution towards the future. and so it has been since my youngest days here. but i do not do so ignorantly. if i see a problem, i will not pause to point at that problem. i am a supporter of LL, yet nor am i a sycophant. i'm an optimist with realist tendencies. this translates into my view of SL/LL at every turn. but enough about that.. let me know if you would like to know anything more specifically or if i have not answered your query appropriately. - as far as Jeenyfur's thread.. i have moved it, upon reading your question about it's existance in General. an acurate assesment and i acted on it before writing this comment. why hadn't i done it earlier? don't laugh.. but to be honest, i was watching WWE, Monday Night RAW. i know.. laugfh if you want, but it's the truth.. i actually do things other than moderate.. and sometimes that even includes mindless tv.  -- Isablan, i have posited the same idea myself. although, i think you presented it in a more lucid fashion than i had. i think it would be an excellent idea, but some feel it may be odd to have SLers end up as LL moderators.. because they could bring SL prejudices with them to their new positions. however, if voted on by the community.. it's somewhat possible it could work out just fine, in my opinion. -- StoneSelf, let me know if i didn't answer this suffiiently in the other thread. my neurons are starting to misfire and i forget exactly what i had said. -- Siggy, i would like to believe they would each have equal amounts to lose. that there would be no bias.. i am not sure what goes on behind the curtain and i know there is much conjecture about preferential treatment, but taken from an unbiased standpoint, equal amounts of loss would be the case. ResMods can be disciplined beyond loss of ResMod status for abuse of power and Resis can be reprimanded simlarly.
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"We, as developers, are doing the easy part – building the scaffolding for a new world. You, as the engines of creation, must breathe life into it." - Philip Linden
"There is no life I know to compare with pure imagination. Living there, you'll be free if you truly wish to be." - Willy Wonka (circa 1971)
SecondSpace (http://groups.myspace.com/secondspace) : MySpace group for SLers.
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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02-27-2006 22:29
what I'm saying is the loss of reputation is a non event - because the shafter and the shaftee there is no force of reputation nor respect.
If someone is going to shaft you - chances are they dont like you - ergo you not liking them more is a not a loss - its a non issue.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
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02-27-2006 23:18
From: Cybin Monde personal conviction keeps me in check. i invite you to search out my past, as has been performed on other ResMods. it is personal convictions that have driven my involvement on these forums since my first post and will continue to guide me unto the future. my entire two year+ history is the evidence i provide. my perseverance as a ResMod.. both resident and moderator, is what i present as evidence of my intent. i honestly wish this was my job, i honestly would love to be employed as a moderator.. no, it's not easy.. i don't garner many friends by being a moderator, but i am a strong believer in this world. i relish being able to delve into this world of ours and do anything i can to help its evolution towards the future. and so it has been since my youngest days here. but i do not do so ignorantly. if i see a problem, i will not pause to point at that problem. i am a supporter of LL, yet nor am i a sycophant. i'm an optimist with realist tendencies. this translates into my view of SL/LL at every turn.
but enough about that.. let me know if you would like to know anything more specifically or if i have not answered your query appropriately. at this point the debate is become academic for me since resmods are generally benign and my real problem is exploitation. exploitation of YOU and your passion for sl. anyway, you have just given me the same answer as before. your monologue on personal conviction aside, i really have nothing tangible to grasp at. what are the checks and measures? by your admission... none. unless we count the loss of celebrity resmod status, which really is more akin to a kick me sticker in my opinion. oh and "SL disciplinary action"... brb, i need to get my gf's cc number to open a new account.
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Mecha Jauani Wu hero of justice __________________________________________________ "Oh Jauani, you're terrible." - khamon fate
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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02-27-2006 23:27
From: Cybin Monde i act the same and my pattern of speech is the same. But what about The Quirk? You don't let The Quirk do any ResModding do you? If so then, well, it's no wonder there's so much fuss with that rascal involved.
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Isablan Neva
Mystic
Join date: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 2,907
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02-28-2006 09:51
From: Cybin Monde Isablan, i have posited the same idea myself. although, i think you presented it in a more lucid fashion than i had. i think it would be an excellent idea, but some feel it may be odd to have SLers end up as LL moderators.. because they could bring SL prejudices with them to their new positions. however, if voted on by the community.. it's somewhat possible it could work out just fine, in my opinion.
Cybin, I think what I had in mind was that the standards (Torley excepted) are traditionally that when a resident becomes a Linden, they do so confidentially. For a Moderator Linden to be effective they pretty much have to have new identities, even if they still post on the forums as their normal selves. When you put on your moderator hat, you are putting on a company hat and representing LL. I moderate forums for a non-profit I run, and while my folks aren't quite as challenging as the SL lot, I do have to put out the occasional flame war and step in to tone things down. Moderation is not easy, but it will be easier for those doing it if they have to log in to a Linden account and put on the uniform (as it were.) Moderation only works when the moderator earns and maintains the respect of the community, which means that you can't participate as "one of the gang"; you have to remain above the fray at all times. There is also no such thing as total equality, you will always treat people you like more gently than those who annoy you, but knowing that you do have a bias also makes you weigh your response to make sure you are being fair. Unfortunately, this is just the way mammals work, we are always going to nicer to our friends than to a stranger or someone we are less fond of - it is a survival skill. As unpopular as forum moderation may be to some, it is necessary. Without moderation, those who are more aggressive at the posting game will drive off everyone except their most devoted adversaries and sycophants. People forget that most forum postings are opinions, not facts. “You are a disreputable business person” is different from “In my opinion, you are a disreputable business person.” One is an opinion masquerading as a fact and provokes retaliation; the other is just an opinion.
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Isablan Neva
Mystic
Join date: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 2,907
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02-28-2006 10:43
To add further; moderation is always going to be somewhat arbitrary. Each of us has an individual “line in the sand”, if you will, of what divides appropriate communication from inappropriate communication. Your line will be drawn in a different place than my line. Where moderators run into problems is when they fail to tell people where the line is drawn. “This thread is inappropriate and is being closed” tells the community nothing. To moderate effectively, you need to specify where the level of discourse crossed the line, this way everyone knows where your lines as a moderator are drawn and they can act accordingly. Not being specific as to where the line was crossed leaves your community guessing at the rules and leads to charges of favoritism “you closed my thread but left so-and-so’s thread which was much worse.”
The hardest threads of all to moderate are the ones that are right on the line between appropriate and inappropriate. Every time you fail to jump in when nearing “the line” you lower the bar of what is allowed and create problems for yourself down the road. A simple intervention warning post “the level of conversation in this thread is approaching inappropriate” goes a long way to diverting the downward spiral. It won't always work, but it at least provides a guideline to the majority of the community who does want to follow the rules.
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Cybin Monde
Resident Moderator (?)
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,468
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dedication of neurons
02-28-2006 10:43
From: SuezanneC Baskerville But what about The Quirk? You don't let The Quirk do any ResModding do you?
If so then, well, it's no wonder there's so much fuss with that rascal involved. by all means NO! lol.. as a matter of fact, i haven't let The Quirk out during my entire time as a ResMod. i felt it could introduce a contradiction in the eyes of the community and as such decided to keep him silent until i am rotated out of active duty. -- Isablan, another good point. if any SLer were to become an official moderator, it would probably be a good idea to have them take on a different first name for the reasons you mentioned. although, i have to challenge the equality issue. i agree that you're right.. in most cases. but there are probably those who can seperate friendships/annoyances from moderation duties. i could be wrong, but i believe i have accomplished that. this isn't patting myself on the back, i'm simply looking at it from a 3rd person point of view. maybe it's due to my experience of having two distinct personalities on the forums, which heralds my ability to switch personalities and viewpoints on/off. as Cybin Monde, i am loathe to ruffle feathers and my speech pattern is more logical and never includes any form of profanity. however, as The Quirk, i can be quite the rascal.. as Suezanne pointed out. his speech is more casual (and much shorter in length! hehe..), at times gruff, and will sometimes include the "softer" swear words. but the two never blur onto each other. as far as participating as "one of the gang", i'm not sure if i agree or not. i have seen Linden mods post casually and ResMods, i still believe, are a hybrid.. it's part of what makes it an odd position. that's only my opinion and, furthermore, it appears that some of the community would agree with you on this point. to further agree, i do think that ResMods have a responsibility to keep their position in mind when offering any opinions, et al.
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"We, as developers, are doing the easy part – building the scaffolding for a new world. You, as the engines of creation, must breathe life into it." - Philip Linden
"There is no life I know to compare with pure imagination. Living there, you'll be free if you truly wish to be." - Willy Wonka (circa 1971)
SecondSpace (http://groups.myspace.com/secondspace) : MySpace group for SLers.
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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02-28-2006 13:20
From: Jauani Wu I'm just curious if we can opt out from this bonus resmod service package? Wu, can you just empty out your pm box please?
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
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02-28-2006 16:14
From: Ingrid Ingersoll Wu, can you just empty out your pm box please? i am saving those steamy PMs for a lonely day.
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Mecha Jauani Wu hero of justice __________________________________________________ "Oh Jauani, you're terrible." - khamon fate
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katykiwi Moonflower
Esquirette
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,489
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03-01-2006 01:39
From: Cybin Monde we are talking about the same person yes? Fonzarelli..
Isnt it against the TOS/CS to name names? There is no reason to charge to host resident forums since excellent resident forums, such as sluniverse.com, already exist. I never spent time in There, but one complaint I have seen mentioned frequently is that There nickle dimed its members to death, charging additional fees to use content created for its members. What is the purpose of a discussion forum if it doesnt exist for discussion...how can one member really get away with telling another member that a thought or comment posted is inappropriate, or off topic, if it does not violate the TOS/CS. Linden Lab: if you cant deal with the general discussion of your members that is produced in the generall discussion forum then eliminate that particular forum. Why have it if so much time is spent censoring, bullying and appointing some preferred members to bully and control the posts of other members. My buck is as good as theirs so why appoint them to control of or limit my content and words. Linden Lab has chosen to impose the TOS/CS upon its members and its up to Linden Lab and its employees to enforce that. If the employees assigned to this task cannot handle it then hire a full time employee who can, or get some interns in there to do it, or better yet, just eliminate discussion forums if they cant deal with discussion. In any event, eliminate the resmod program.
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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03-01-2006 04:42
I believe my earlier statments about the people don't want the resmod program around wa sproven true..
2 poll results in my sig
Linden Labs, please listen and remove the program we want gone.
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StoneSelf Karuna
His Grace
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,955
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03-01-2006 10:12
From: Jonas Pierterson I believe my earlier statments about the people don't want the resmod program around wa sproven true..
2 poll results in my sig
Linden Labs, please listen and remove the program we want gone. bwahahahaha!!!!
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Marcos Fonzarelli
You are not Marcos
Join date: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 748
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03-01-2006 15:13
From: Cybin Monde on the other hand, what if someone like Marcos F became a ResMod and started shoving people around and acting in a corrupt manner.. /me stalks into thread, shoves several people around, does the FIC salute, and swaggers out.
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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03-02-2006 03:20
Moved to our brandnew, shiny SL ResMod forum! 
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Cybin Monde
Resident Moderator (?)
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,468
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takes ResMod cap off.. just for a moment..
03-02-2006 08:47
From: Marcos Fonzarelli /me stalks into thread, shoves several people around, does the FIC salute, and swaggers out. lol.. good show, Marcos!  (if anyone needs shoving, it's me! shoved back in-world that is.. i keep talking about finishing my buiild, but there it stands.. some weird modern art looking thing. soory, Marcos.. i swear! one of these days i really will finish! maybe even this year!! hehe..)
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"We, as developers, are doing the easy part – building the scaffolding for a new world. You, as the engines of creation, must breathe life into it." - Philip Linden
"There is no life I know to compare with pure imagination. Living there, you'll be free if you truly wish to be." - Willy Wonka (circa 1971)
SecondSpace (http://groups.myspace.com/secondspace) : MySpace group for SLers.
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