Yet Another Newby Needing Help

2006-04-27 01:16 [Stardate 200604.270116?]

In two weeks I expect to take delivery of a custom-built box to run the Second Life client.

Meanwhile, I`m trying to get as many bugs exterminated as I can so`s I`ll be ready when the "baby"`s "delivered".

Details:

* I have the "Linux Bible 2005 edition", an` can read both the CD an` the DVD.

* After playing with the D*** Small Linux Live CD I have "installed" DSL on ma Win98 box, with minor hacks to boot from the single Win98 full-disk partition without the CD. `Tis still experimental, but it works.

* I have downloaded and extracted the Linux client, with the usual problem of being unable to run ./bin/secondlife-bin [I didn`t HAVE a ./secondlife script, `cause the unpacker overwrote it with ./SecondLife/ [or failed ta create it `cause the directory was already there, I don` know which], `cause I extracted it ta a VFAT case-insensitive volume, not knowing that the durn thang had Win98 "duplicate" filenames. Anywayse, I re-extracted it directly ta a mountable volume-image file, and ran ./secondlife, as I read elsewhere, an` that fixed that. I had the same problem under both DSL and the KNOPPIX Live CD on the DVD; I only tested the fix with DSL, but I expect `tis fixed with Knoppix too, seeing as I`ve using the same virtual Second Life volume for both.

* Now I`ve got the usual next problem: the client`s giving me the same error in reference to "libdb-4.2.so". I`ve scanned the forum for refrences to the library, but I dont` know wheI to get the [Berkly?] DB package fer DSL, and I haven`t yet tried it under Knoppix, `cause `tis too late [circa quarter after one AM here].

* I have also downloaded the WinXP client, and haven`t a clue on how to install it under Wine [which comes with Knoppix but not DSL].

More details later, but meanwhile, if y`all gots any specific questions, please, PLEASE feel free ta let me know. Thanks muchly, in advance.

Oh, and anyone care to guess how I`m getting Linux to boot from a Win98 partition?

Toodle-oo!

2006-04-27 16:01 More info...

Client version: SecondLife_1_9_0_21.tar.bz2

knoppix@ttyp0[SecondLife.img]$ ls -aFl /lib/libdb*.so
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 49424 Oct 18  2002 /lib/libdb1-2.2.5.so
knoppix@ttyp0[SecondLife.img]$

Sorry, maar hier begrijp ik geen ene ruk van

I'm afraid the only part of your post I could understand was the code quoted at the bottom. Typing in accent makes it pretty hard to read.

Looks like you need to install a newer version of libdb.

Of course, but where do Ah find it?

C`mon, people! Ah`ve got less than two weeks to get things ready for my new SL box.

Ah`m computer-savvy in general, but Ah`m a newby to Linux!

Ah`ve got the followin` Linux distributions available:

From Linux Bible 2005 Edition CD:
+ Coyote LiveFloppy [.tar with install script]
+ D*** Small LiveCD [.iso, bootable]
+ DebIan Net Install [bootable]
+ Feather* [.iso]
+ Gentoo Net Install [.iso]
+ INSERT* [.iso]

From Linux Bible 2005 Edition DVD:
+ Fedora Core 3 Full Install [bootable]
+ KNOPPIX LiveCD [bootable]
+ Slackware* [.iso?]
+ SUSE* [.iso?]

* Ah do not know if these are LiveCD or InstallCD distributions, but Ah think they`re Install.

Also available on other CDs:
+ Fedora Core 3 Install, disks 1-3 of 5
+ Redhat 9 Install, disks 1-3 of 3

Ah may have others somewhere, but Ah likely couldn`t find them easily.

Ah do not have the hardware this will run on, but Ah do have some lesser hardware which Ah am attempting to use to pre-swat as many bugs as Ah can.

Ah NEED HELP. Which Linux should Ah use, and why?

Points to remember:
1) Ah want to be able to tweak anything[ [Gentoo?], and without having to do 15 years research just to find the setting needing adjustment.
2) Ah want to be able to run SL as out-of-the-box as possible upon hardware delivery [DSL, KNOPPIX, DebIan?], and save the tweaks for later.
3) Ah need the tweaks to be persistant across reboots.
4) Ah cannot join y`all in-world `till this works.

OK, it's 2 AM here in Europe, I had 3 beers, so maybe I'm not seeing this right..
You never installed Linux before
You dont know if your distro's are install or live
One of your distro's are missing 2 of the 5 disks.
you want to tweak it but dont want to look how to do it
You didn't tell what hardware is in your new PC (maybe it was in your first post, but english istn my native language, and it's just too hard for me to understand (hey, if _I_ can type english, why cant you?))
You want to run it out of the box.

My advise? You got 2 more weeks to buy a Windows XP license...

I'm a linux noob myself, I tried several distros in the last few weeks. I keep messing things up and boot XP to reinstall the last image where Linux and SL were running....
Installing Linux is easy. Getting your hardware acceleration running is much harder, and depends on your distro and hardware. So, even if I would, I couldnt help you...

Ah hope this doesn`t come across as angry or insultin`; Ah jes` want to clear up some misunderstandings, in case someone else has the same impression as this gentleman.Not quite true; I've installed D*** Small Linux on a Win98 VFAT partition, and can boot it from there. [Twice, actually; once on each of two machines.] It runs fine, too, but Ah haven`t yet found all the tweaks Ah want to find.The distros in question are on the CD and DVD that came with Linux Bible 2005 edition. Ah am not familiar with all of the distrobutions there because Ah have been concentrating mostly on DSL. Ah didn`t figure that the distinction would be important UNLESS someone suggested that Ah USE one of them. Still, Ah posted what information Ah had at hand without spending excessive time researching.The gentleman who burned them for me claims that volumes 4 and 5 of that distro are OPTIONAL with programs he expected Ah would not need.No; Ah want to be ABLE to tweak LATER, but don`t want to have to do MAJOR research NOW.It wasn`t; Ah will not know myself untill next Tuesday, when the system builder will present me with lists of options to choose from.Jes` tryin` ta stay in charactear, Shugah.Ah want the Client to run as out-of-the-box as possible on my new hardware when it arrives the following Tuesday, so Ah am *TRYING* to get as many bugs worked out *NOW* as Ah can!No can do. Just not possible. Not an option. Sounds familiar!Yup. Choosing one when you have no idea why to pick one over another is like throwing darts blindfolded: Not easy.That`s cool; Ah sha`n`t ask your help, then; Ah`ll ask everyone else instead.

How about it guys? The clock is runnin`!

Hardware: Use a graphics card with a recent vintage Nvidia chip. Avoid ATI like the plague.

Software: Download Ubuntu 5.10 at http://www.ubuntu.com/download

Use the script here to install the Nvidia drivers automatically for you. No manual tweaking needed. http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=138405

Install SL linux client and go!

Total time spent.. under 1 hour 10 mins I nearly guarantee it. (Not counting .iso download)

Easy as falling off a bike!

Oh, and these forums are pretty much out of character. If you play SL as a character in the roleplaying sense, then your character would have to know that he/she is a computer clothed figment of a real persons imagination to come here and post about what sort of linux box will be able to render it. That's transsecting multiple layers of reality and abstraction, which is intellectually interesting, but quite apart from the nuts and bolts of getting a computer set up to play a game.

In order to acheive the pragmatic aims that you are obviously pursuing, I'd say leave the character in the realm that it inhabits (Or an in character thread/section of the forums) and speak plain English so that the people in the community here (several of which speak/read English as a second language) can more easily understand and help you. I was able to understand what you were saying, but I often type in accent when I'm playing a character with an accent too!

Have fun!

Roleplayer and Linux fan,
-Bones

Said character is making any help come to you at a snails pace and is causing confusion. Not everyone speaks your character natively.

You see, this forum is for alpha testing or support; this isn't any one of the other general conversation forums out there, nor is this the game itself. I am not going to overwork myself helping people.

I am willing to help you, if you so require, but only on the basis that you communicate in English.

Sorry: too many smileys. I had to turn them off.I take it that ATI has issues with ((SL) or (Linux) or (SL and Linux))Ok, but please explain why you suggest that particular distribution over others. I truly want to understand.Cool! :cool: Cool!Cool!Darn! ;) I dunno; I`d have to get ON the bike first! :pAh`s sorry, Darlin`.

C:\>

C:\> AI /STATUS
SYSTEM AWAITING HARDWARE UPGRADE
SYSTEM AWAITING OS UPGRADE
PERSONALITY MODULE LLOREN WANNABE DELETED
PERSONALITY MODULE LLOREN MANDELBROT RUNNING IN GESTATION MODE
PERSONALITY MODULES ARE NOT FULLY FUNCTIONAL DURING GESTATION MODE
SYSTEM PARTICIPATING IN SECOLD LIFE FORUMS
 USING PERSONALITY MODULE LLOREN MANDELBROT
 WHILE REASEARCHING UPGRADE OPTIONS
C:\>

C:\>

Adjustments have been and continue to be made to the readability level of the original message. Accent intensity parameter temporarily reduced 90%.Ah appreciates muchly yoah kind consideration, Shugah!Ah`m a-tryin` ta! :DToodle-oo!

Why Ubuntu?

It's easy for the new user, with graphical applications for package installation, lots of good, friendly community support, and all the power of the Debian apt system when you need it. Plus, it's got much more current package versions than Debian.

Out of the box + Automatix (google for it, good utility!), Ubuntu got an X server running at 1024 x 768, autodetected my wireless and wired ethernet PCMCIA cards, and supported every feature on my laptop except ACPI suspend (and that works in Gnome for some reason, just not with the hibernate script. Weird...)

Basically, Ubuntu is Linux made easy. Or, at least getting there...

Sounds good, so far... no, make that great.Hey, teriffic! DSL and KNOPPIX don`t recognize my sound card, but then again, I don`t think I recognize it either. I expect that my new hardware will have newer audio circuctry, though. This failure-to-recognize is on my current equipment, which is VERY out-of-date. [350mhzP2 & 500mhzP3, eg.]Very. Then again, with so much, ahem, "junque" written by so many people, one might well wonder why it works at all... Wonderful.

But how does it stack up in the "I-want-to-be-able-to-tweak-everything-later" department?

...and does anyone have any other recommendations, with support?

Toodle-oo!

As mentioned above, it is basically Debian-made-easy (ish) so it is very tweakable (just like Debian). If you really want to make things harder for yourself, start off with Debian or Slackware rather than Ubuntu, but I would not really advise this.

Every version of Linux is infinitely configurable and tweakable (or, if you take it too far... breakable)! I started out with Red Hat and then Mandrake, both of which were supposedly "easy", but had a terrible flaw (at that time) that all software was released as rpm files, which were great.. easy to install.. but I used to spend ages hunting for one, only to find.. oh it depends on another 2 rpms which I don't have.. Oh those both depend on 4 other rpms each.. I can't find one of those anywhere... Oh here is one that is almost right.. Can't hurt it to force install.. what are those warnings for anyway??? Damn! the system won't work! Better reinstall!

This would not have been such a problem if there was a standard place to get rpms from (which I believe to be the case now)... but believe me it was a serious problem back then.. I ended out reinstalling RH5 and Mandrake 7/8 so many times, and falling into rpm hell whenever I wanted to try out something new that I was always back to Win98 sooner or later..

Debian came as an incredible breath of fresh air to me. I had a fair few years of Linux use under my belt so the installer was not too much of a problem.. Then the config files in /etc/ seemed to be written in a relatively sensible (and understandable) way, at least compared to the weird stuff in Mandrake and RedHat (supposedly put there to make things "easier". Then.. instead of hunting for obscure rpms across the net.. and all the dependencies, I could just type apt-get install ....

and working software/libraries etc. would be installed at the stroke of a key.. all downloaded from the debian repository, with no dependency problems. Amazing! Also, I had got to the point where if I broke something, I could fix it again without resorting to a reinstall.. (this took me years tho!)

Anyway, there is no way I would go back to an rpm-based system (despite people telling me it has got better now). Debian is brilliant (and the emphasis on Free software is very nice too), so I would really support the suggestion of Ubuntu for a beginner (or anyone who wants a good Linux system that just works).

Sorry for this rambling post, but what I would really advise, is try a boot-disk version of Ubuntu and see how it grabs you. If you hate Gnome, try Kubuntu. If you want even more configurability, get either and install what you want by apt-get.

The DSL and KNOPPIX I`ve been playing with are also DebIan descendants (DSL is a stripped-down KNOPPIX, which in turn is DebIan-based, and I`ve heard of other distributions based on DSL.) I`d be hard-pressed to choose between DSL and KNOPPIX, and was considering installing both on my 500mhzP3 system "Just Because". I`ve been thinking that it would be "fun" to attempt installation of multiple distributions of Linux in paralell on the same mission-noncritical system. At the moment, however, I`m still having issues with the latest round of "change something and then get everything working again" on my DSL installation....but how easy is it to find the informaion needed to tweak? That is also of interest. I take it that Ubuntu does not go out of its way to "protect" the user excessively? I`ve done that repeatedly in my experiments with DSL, which is [almost] too simple to break [easily]. So did I, but everything was too well "protected" to make things easy on a born tweaker who is still learning. I.E., I couldn`t even find most of the adjustments, never mind maladjust them. Sounds frustrating. Worry not; I have no intention of installing either Red Hat or Fedora Core x at this time without very good reason.I do have a DebIan Network Install .iso, but I note above that you recommend against it at this time. Comments re KNOPPIX and/or DSL?Cool.Naturally.Later --much later-- I think I`d like to try my hand at integrating .rpm, .deb, KNOPPIX packages, and MyDSL packages into a coherent whole. I am competent to write Shell scripts, if only at a beginner-to-intermediate level [albeit with lots of revrence checking for obscure details].Ok, at this point Ubuntu has the clear lead. I still have one week to deadline for putting things together in advance.Thank you for this "rambling post". I`m not greedy; I just want it all.

Seriously, I feel I`ve [finally] recieved some useful information, between yourself, Bones, and some other threads about not using ATI video, and being careful with not-quite-high-enough-end NVidea.

Thanks, everyone; I should have hardware details available tonight [look for more then], and I look forward to hearing more useful information --and hoping I don`t need it!

Ah `ppreciates yoah he`p, gen`lemen [an` gen`lewomen?]. Toodle-oo!

Oh.. regarding Nvidia, it is just that for accelerated 3D under Linux, you still need to use closed source drivers, and the Nvidia ones work better than ATI. With the "up to dateness" of the card, GeForce2 or newer should be fine!!!

Regarding Debian as a first install: if you are willing to put in the effort, go for it! They have improved the installer etc. so it is much easier than it used to be. The main difference (as I see it) with Debian and Ubuntu is that Ubuntu selects a nice set of packages that work well together, whereas with Debian you have to know what you want to install. Since Ubuntu is aimed (partly) at newcomers to Linux, you are more likely to get more help with "easy" problems. You can also add one of the Debian sid repository mirrors to your /etc/apt/sources.list file, and you will be able to install pretty much all the software available in Debian (the base system is basically the same.. Ubuntu is based on the Debian unstable system (sid) with tweaks to make it fully usable and with latest security patches and a nice easy install).

AFAIK Ubuntu does not make it hard to tweak away to your hearts content, and I think many people have a hybrid Debian/Ubuntu system (even mine has one Ubuntu package in it as it has not been released for Debian).

Here are the specs on the system I expect to get next Tuesday:

AMD Athlon 1400
IWILL Socket A motherboard
NVIDIA Geforce 2MX 32MB
256MB PC-100 RAM (two sticks)
10GB Samsung HD
52X CD-ROM
Antec PC case

$110

Ubuntu -- about one [two?] releases back; but I can update from the `net once I`m on-line.

...I trust that this hardware will be sufficient to host the client software? Please keep in mind that my budget is severely limited.

Toodle-oo!

It will work theoretically.

If you have any spare cash, upgrade to GeForce3 and 512MB RAM.. It _should_ work with your proposed config tho. Make sure you turn a lot of the features (and draw distance) down. The game can be a real RAM hog.

Also, you need broadband! Connections to modem/router via ethernet are generally easier to set up in Linux than usb modems.

[left]Good.I don`t. Heck, I can`t afford this system! I`m only buying it because none of my current systems are anywhere near what the SL client requires.I do not believe that I can do that, but I should be able to upgrade to 384MB if I sacrifice a 128MB memory stick from another computer to place in the third memory slot. The GeForce3, however, is, unfortunately, simply not an option, unless someone were to give me one. I start low, and turn things up until the frame rate becomes unacceptable, then tweak them down a touch, right?I will just have to make do with my existing connection. I forgot to mention that I already have an Ethernet connection to a DSL modem, not to be confused with the DSL Linux mentioned earlier.

Toodle-oo!
[/left]

Ok, people, I have my new hardware now, with KUbuntu 5.10 freshly installed.

Unfortunately, SecondLife will not run. I think I need to update my NVidea drivers, but I`m not sure, and KUbuntu will not let me log in as root. Here is my output:

2006-05-17T02:53:45Z WARNING: LLDir_Linux not fully implemented!
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z INFO: QUEUED THREAD STARTING
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z INFO: QUEUED THREAD STARTING
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z INFO: QUEUED THREAD STARTING
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z INFO: Checking marker file for lock...
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z INFO: Marker file isn't locked.
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z INFO: Checking marker file for lock...
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z INFO: Marker file created.
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z INFO: Removing message.log
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z INFO: Exiting init_marker_file().
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z INFO: Opening debug file /home/llauren/SecondLife_1_9_0_21/SecondLife/logs/debug_info.log
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z INFO: Second Life version 1.9.0
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z INFO: Local time: 2006-05-16T22:53:45 EDT
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z INFO: CPU info:
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z processor  : 0 vendor_id   : AuthenticAMD cpu family       : 6 model               : 4 model name  : AMD Athlon(tm) processor stepping: 4 cpu MHz             : 1052.644 cache size   : 256 KB fdiv_bug       : no hlt_bug            : no f00f_bug   : no coma_bug   : no fpu                : yes fpu_exception        : yes cpuid level       : 1 wp          : yes flags             : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr syscall mmxext 3dnowext 3dnow bogomips       : 2084.86
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z INFO: Memory info:
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z MemTotal:       256796 kB MemFree:          3020 kB Buffers:          1236 kB Cached:         125528 kB SwapCached:       2092 kB Active:         189196 kB Inactive:        46488 kB HighTotal:           0 kB HighFree:            0 kB LowTotal:       256796 kB LowFree:          3020 kB SwapTotal:      240932 kB SwapFree:       228456 kB Dirty:              28 kB Writeback:           0 kB Mapped:         171428 kB Slab:            12612 kB CommitLimit:    369328 kB Committed_AS:   223248 kB PageTables:       1376 kB VmallocTotal:   770040 kB VmallocUsed:      2880 kB VmallocChunk:   767064 kB
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z INFO: OS info: Linux 2.6.12-9-386 #1 Mon Oct 10 13:14:36 BST 2005 i686
2006-05-17T02:53:45Z INFO: Loading feature tables.
2006-05-17T02:53:46Z INFO: Using configuration file /home/llauren/SecondLife_1_9_0_21/SecondLife/user_settings/settings.ini
2006-05-17T02:53:46Z INFO: LLControlGroup::loadFromFile unable to open.
2006-05-17T02:53:46Z INFO: LLControlGroup::loadFromFile unable to open.
2006-05-17T02:53:46Z INFO: Loading art table from viewerart.ini
2006-05-17T02:53:46Z INFO: Loading base colors from colors_base.ini
2006-05-17T02:53:46Z INFO: Loading user colors from colors.ini
2006-05-17T02:53:46Z INFO: Default vfs data file not present, found /home/llauren/SecondLife_1_9_0_21/SecondLife/cache/.
2006-05-17T02:53:46Z INFO: Old salt: 1
2006-05-17T02:53:46Z WARNING: Bad or missing vfx index file /home/llauren/SecondLife_1_9_0_21/SecondLife/cache/index.db2.x.1
2006-05-17T02:53:46Z WARNING: Removing old vfs data file /home/llauren/SecondLife_1_9_0_21/SecondLife/cache/.
2006-05-17T02:53:46Z INFO: Renaming /home/llauren/SecondLife_1_9_0_21/SecondLife/cache/. to /home/llauren/SecondLife_1_9_0_21/SecondLife/cache/data.db2.x.2131328731
2006-05-17T02:53:46Z INFO: Renaming /home/llauren/SecondLife_1_9_0_21/SecondLife/cache/index.db2.x.1 to /home/llauren/SecondLife_1_9_0_21/SecondLife/cache/index.db2.x.2131328731
2006-05-17T02:53:46Z INFO: Pre-sized VFS data file to 524288000 bytes
2006-05-17T02:53:46Z INFO: VFS: Using index file /home/llauren/SecondLife_1_9_0_21/SecondLife/cache/index.db2.x.2131328731 and data file /home/llauren/SecondLife_1_9_0_21/SecondLife/cache/data.db2.x.2131328731
2006-05-17T02:53:46Z INFO: VFS: Using index file /home/llauren/SecondLife_1_9_0_21/app_settings/static_index.db2 and data file /home/llauren/SecondLife_1_9_0_21/app_settings/static_data.db2
2006-05-17T02:53:46Z INFO: Initializing window...
2006-05-17T02:53:47Z INFO: createContext: creating window 800x600x32
2006-05-17T02:53:47Z INFO: createContext: window creation failure. SDL: Couldn't find matching GLX visual
2006-05-17T02:53:47Z INFO: Unloading all GL symbols...
2006-05-17T02:53:47Z WARNING: OSMessageBox: Window creation error
2006-05-17T02:53:47Z INFO: Unloading all GL symbols...
2006-05-17T02:53:47Z WARNING: LLWindowManager::create() : Error creating window.
2006-05-17T02:53:47Z WARNING: Unable to create window, be sure screen is set at 32-bit color in Control Panels->Display->Settings
2006-05-17T02:53:47Z INFO: remove_marker_file()

Suggestions, anyone?

Toodle-oo!

I'm no kubuntu user, so I can't really help much. I do know, though, that kubuntu doesn't have a traditional root account. If you need something done as root, you will have to use "sudo".

Oh come on stop this advertising. Ubuntus goal is to be userfriendly but other distros like Fedora have many more userfriendly graphical applications. I guess you have never used Fedora before? This is the funny side - ppl don't test so they can't really tell. For Debian users Ubuntu must be enlightening, thats for sure, because Debian is not helping the user very much.

Another problem with Ubunu is that you are only getting a stable version once a year. AsMark Shuttleworth (project leader) himself pointed out you get every hald year a new Ubuntu - one is "bleeding edge" (qoute, I would not call that stable) - the other version is fixing things up. The other problem is that with Ubuntu you do not seem to get new software till the next release. I have an Ubuntu version myself and only seem to get security upgrades. WIth Fedora you mostly get the newest software. They only do not update big versions like major GNOME, Firefox or KDE upgrades. But you get a stable new version ever half year that gets the newest patches nearly every day.

Ubuntu has so much markleting speech but can not deliver what it proclaims. It is just one of many distruibutions. It is great for those used to Debian but being sick of having to wait 3 years for new software. And it is also better than many other distros out there. But is NOT the best for newbies.

Vinci

The problem is that with Kubuntu you will have to edit the graphical settings by hand. So you would have to learn xorg.conf (in /etc/X11) configuration. As I just wrote earlier: (K)Ubuntu is not userfriendly.

Vinci

If this is the case, try setting up the driver following the NVIDIA readme on the home page and then running "switch2nvidia" on the command prompt. This will patch your xorg.conf to use the new driver. Reverting back to the open source driver can be done by using "switch2nv".

Neither is polluting threads with pointless distro squabbling. Really, did you have to dig up a post from over 2 weeks ago just to add your 2L when its clear for all to see the conversation has moved on.

if you don't feel you can positively contribute to helping resolve this users problems , please just don't.

apt-get install nvidia-glx nvidia-kernel-headers nvidia-settings

sudo nvidia-glx-config enable

Should do it.. then:

Check your xorg.conf file (/etc/X11/xorg.conf) to make sure that DefaultDepth is set to 24.

apt-get install nano

then sudo nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf

find the DefaultDepth line and make sure it is 24.

ctrl-alt-backspace (to reload X)

Then it should (hopefully) work.