Developing Rail businesses in SL

I am also learning technical skills to work with the developers & IT-aware people in SL.

Skype is for calling other people on their computers from your computer and it's totally free.
http://www.muuk.co.uk/page.asp?id=AboutSkype is a brief outline.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype is full 'chapter & verse'.
I have committed myself to be on Skype by next weekend.

Communications with you may also be easier if you join the 'Luxury Trains & Rail Cars' group.

Interesting topic, what i would like to see is luxurious private trains that I could own. But i expect there is a prim limit for the trains so not sure how much we could build on a train.

i would like to build fancy trains but i wouldn't want it to be a freebie or open source. its good to keep the core code open source but additional functionality the creator adds to differentiate his product should not be open source. for some developers SL is their major gig and they could only invest time on bankable projects. Imagine if all sl creations had to be a freebie.

the right way to make it work is to allow it to be profitable for developers. The rails could stay open source if u choose it that way. but freebie usually end up lacking in quality, the trains should not be freebies, its really a developers choice.

i think its a long exciting journey with the trains, i'll follow up to see what could be built into a train.

so far good job to everyone whos been a part of the project. still admire your efforts. Keep it up.

Of course, I realise that I lose all the 'for profit' developers this way.

But look at it like this: The Caledon Trolley took a lot of effort to develop. If I had to pay for the time it took at even a fraction of market coding rates, I should very well have handed Caledon over in its entirety to pay for just the scripting. Consider that sims along the route restart, the trolley is expected to be there 24/7, and a whole bunch of other subtle little things.

It's likely far more than I can afford to pay for a professional custom job. Plus the 'catch 22' that if someone develops a train for profit, they will have a wickedly hard time finding customers with enough sims + track.



It's a choice, to be sure. And worst case, I can *always* just give up and buy something, presuming I can afford it.

Given enough time though, the builder/scripter foolish enough to develop a top rate rail system for nothing just might be... me. I'm just slow, because of all else I have to do.

Once I get all the trains in, I'll be making significant improvements to how things work, and how they look. The big fuss lately is how to mitigate the evils of intersim crossings.

So, two things to which Desmond has committed:

1) Never to make another tulip (loooong story)
2) A free, full-mod version of the Caledon National Rail, in some form or other.

I agree with both Shang and Overlord. Just at different places. Let me propose a preliminary business plan for a luxury train.

The tran is one luxury car and an engine (think Wild, Wid West). The train is able to move through time and space (think closing scenes of Back to the Future 3). The train offers excursions to selected places in SL. It is marketed to newcomers as a way to explore SL. The trips will include visits to business sims like IBM (Sears, Circuit City), Nissan and other automotive places, Dell, and other RL businesses now discovering SL as a marketing tooll. The train makes money by delivering traffic to these sims. Essentially this is the TV model: Pay us to provide content that deilvers viewers to your market effort.

The train operates from all cooperating stations. It leaves like an ordinary train, but flies into the sky on its own rails. All stations post destinaions (for a modest fee). The destinations are also landmarks and add value to the services offered to paying cusotmers. The destinations also include many non-commercial places of interest and many role-playing sims that could not afford to pay the fees charged to RL companies.

The train would seek to be the premier inworld travel agency-- the place visitors go for intersting travel and the place destination owners go to attract traffic.

I am offering this trial business plan in the open source mode. Anybody is welcome to take the idea and do it. I don't intend to do it, but I will help with further development if someone does want to do it.
TM

I'm thinking of working on a rail system, probably using Mr. Shang's system as a basis, and would like to begin a list of features that might be desirable. All my work will be open source.

Based on personal preference and the experience in Caledon, it will be the visual equivalent of a 2- or 3-foot narrow gauge, in order to keep the size of the rolling stock as small as possible. And should it need to be said, my parts will be steam and steam-electric, or perhaps pneumatic for subterranean intra-sim travel.

My general thought is to treat a rail system like any other isochronous packetized network, which means the network is stupid but the users (rolling stock, stations) are smart.

Technical Features:

Track features

1. points/switches (with moving parts)
   1. straight
      
   2. radius
      
   3. wye
      
   
   
2. straight sections
   
3. straight and curved grades (this is a non-trivial problem)
   
4. small/medium/large fixed-radius curves
   
5. arbitrary number of rails? E.g. standard two-rail, dual-gauge, central rail with guide rails, overhead track (yes, monorail)
   

Experience

1. sounds appropriate to place/type of object
   
2. particle systems for smoke/steam
   
3. costumery for those of you who want to play at running trains (conductors, etc.)
   

Rolling stock

1. automated and/or manual controls
   
2. an ad-rotator car
   

Infrastructure

1. passenger stations
   
2. freight stations
   
3. bridges
   
4. railroad detritus - work equipment, carts, benches, telegraph systems
   

Management

1. real-time monitoring (like the SLRR map on the ANWR offshore prim rig)
   
2. scheduling capabilities
   
3. Standards (with components) for rolling stock
   
4. automated sanity checking (for border crossings)
   
5. self-tuning for performance
   
6. ticket punching system to allow trainspotters and system-riders to compete in coverage games (ride to all stations in X time, see all M-class locomotives, etc.)
   
7. Consist assembly and switching yards (yeah...right. Maybe in v2)
   

Please feel free to add/comment on technical features. I doubt that there's any sustainable infrastructure-based business model in any environment where teleportation and the ability to fly exist, hence my concentration on the gearhead parts.

Since I started this thread (which has gone a little quiet), maybe I am able to say many thanks to everyone who responded with ideas and thoughts.

It seems the thread moved away from 'seeking a mentor' to a general rail discussion. No-one stopped us, so perhaps Lindens don't watch our every move!

No question - rail has a future in Second Life! Its obviously frontier land like the first railroads in the US - but from here the direction is different! With less arrows too.

I am happy to share a Note about our activities. Send me an IM.

Is there a rail forum somewhere? If not, perhaps we should have one?

So - from me to the Luxury Trains & Rail Cars Group & other friends - speak soon on SL or in that rail forum! Unless someone comes back on this forum with a great rail topic............

We need to keep up the (steamin') pressure.

I know that Lewis Nerd is a bit of a rail enthusiast (hence the miniature railroad round the Stratics land) - if you're interested we might be able to open up a 'special interest' section and give you a subforum there if you think there will be interest. Drop him a message and I'm sure he'll be happy to talk.

Broccoli

I did a search and found no raill forum. I don't think this area is widely seen. My suggeston: start a blog.
TM

Get hold of Lewis Nerd in-game and Stratics will be glad to host one for you under their "Special Interest Groups" category at no charge. Signup is free and straightforward. http://sl.stratics.com

Broccoli

That sounds wonderful, actually!

I've been fussing with Caledon National Rail today, and sim crossings have been, shall we say, suboptimal lately.

Seems to me the trick will be: what can we do to make the most 'reliable and stable' trains on the grid.

It's extremely good to see that CoyoteAngel has taken an interest; only good things will come of that! I might not be the fastest at doing anything myself due to the deluge of IM's I get, but I'm also maybe the most... determined.

Land is nothing. But ah, to be a rail baron...

grins

congrats on getting a train to run from the Hobo Info hub - I did crash along the journey but considering the actual mileage I am still impressed - I realise its a highly technical fing that you have there.

Paddy has establisehd a blog for continuing this discussion. The blog is at:

http://secondliferail.blogspot.com/

It will be open for ccomment. It is to be collaborative, so Paddy will appoint other people to post on it. People with strong interest in Second Life Rail should contact Paddy to be authorized to post. You can contact Paddy via the blog.
TM

If you need help running trains or a conductor or such, then contant me. I am new in SL but love trains. I could enjoy working on the railroad...and if it pays; BONUS.
Thx-Arba

I just went to look at the blog this week and it's full steam ahead on a mall but no discussion on rail.

We have talked about how to get railroads marked on the map. That is on the back burner till I have some test results. Paddy is mainly onto getting the rail mall done for now. I think that is about built.

The discussion is driven by what poster thnk is important. People who want to talk about rail matters need to contact Paddy and get listed as a contributors.

QuQi could keep us updated on the Ferry and progress on the GSLR. Desmond Shang could post about the Caledon RR.

I will soon be trying to identify all the rail builds in SL. I will be listing all I can find. So far I have Caledon, SLRR, Hobo RR, and GSLR. I hope somebody will tell me about more.

BTW Simstick, what discussion do you want to see about rail?
TM

Can you name all the railroad builds in SL? I can't. But I need to name them for Geo Meek because I want him to send Poster Hosters to all the rail-related places. (As explained in Paddy's blog, these will be used to suggest intreresting destinations for newcomers to visit.

Here are the places I know so far:

Hobo Railroad. A hoster to Orhalla Zander.
GSLR - we will get hoster to Athos and Qu Qi. Probably can use several from this extensive build.
Ferry by Qu Qi. - deserves a hoster of its own.
Periwinkle Info Hub (on the GLSR) -- Another hoster for Qu Q, who has connections there.
Grand Calleta Terminal. A hoster fo Paddy Padenborn.
Caledon National Railway. Probably can use several from this extensive build. Will send a hoster to Desmond Shang.
SLRR -- I think Nigel Linden is still in charge on this. They probably have enough content for several posters, but I will be happy with at least one.

I think I know of some more rail-related places, but don't know the person to send things to. I hope this post will get more information. Post here. Or in Paddy's blog. Or send to me inworld.

Drop one to Lewis Nerd to put up at the Stratics HQ in Rosieri. We have a miniature "sit and ride" railroad (by Kitto Flora) round our land.

Broccoli

Barney Boomslang has narrow gauge rail (and very well done, too!) in his sim - I forget how to spell the name of it but do look him up!

Hey guys. This discussion got me thinking. Based on some suggestions by Prokofy and some similar projects I've seen around I was thinking about buying mainland sims and then reserving them for collections of like minded individuals. For example, I could buy a sim or two (or three!) depending on the level of interest and then sell all the land on to various rail enthusiasts such as yourselves.

We could build a sim wide rail system and then you guys could own or rent directly from me the surrounding parcels. We'll have to discuss how to handle the actual track. It might be possible to hold it in a trusted group and have other residents of the sim donate tier to help support the publically held land. Certainly I'd be willing to chip in to give a helping hand here.

Let me know if this seems interesting to you. There's a lot of consecutive sims coming up for sale these days so if there was enough interest we could build something really awesome. Only slight downside is that it would be nigh on impossible to connect our track to any of the linden built mainland ones.

Thannks Broccoli and Desmond. Will folow up. And will look into video on Kitto's train. Can anybody around there Skype for the video?

Interesting idea. But may not fit the people following this thread. Desmond already owns a little continent worth of sims and is running his RR aroud there. Paddy, Zander, and Zimmy already own most of Calleta and are cooperating to mke Calleta a RR cetner. Spilling over into Cecropia now. And Qu Qi is extending (via the Ferry) to ANWR, Purple, and Periwinkle. Athos (GSLR) already has extensive RR.

Calleta and Periwinke have advantage: Info Hubs.

There might be other people, not yet situated who would be interested in land near the existing RRs.

Hi there,

your business sounds like a really cool idea... my question is.. how would it work? You'd have a station on each sim, and passengers would get on for free? Or for a fee? Then, the train would take them from sim to sim?

Please let me know...
I have an Island - English Village - its an Educational island... id be interested in having rail pass through my land... currently I have a private trainset already set up that takes my residents around my island...

Yulina Mitra programed it for me...
cheers

Greetings, as a once avid rail modeller/operator, I'd love to get involved here - I've been to Caledon looking for Desmond's open-source, and not found it (is it still in Central Park somewhere? I'll look again when the grid isn't so crowded) although the train itself was running nicely. I very strongly support open-source projects, and might be able to contribute somehow. Every since seeing the beautiful decripit boxcars at the Hobo RR, I've wanted to get something "rolling".

(random thought warning) I wonder if a "hobo excursion" train featuring boxcars instead of passenger cars (and appropriate appointments) might not be as popular a ride as a high-class trip. Different destinations, of course - one could see some of the seamy "underside" of SL, the various industrial-looking areas, the various "seaports".... It's probably not feasible, but I'd ride it.

Has the train already left the station, or is there something a perfectionist builder/scripter/railfan might yet "play" with? I'd say my greatest strength lies in debugging/optimizing code that already proves the concept -- once I get my own ideas to that stage, I tend to lose interest and be looking for another challenge.

I've been to Paddy's blog, but wasn't sure how to jump in with a "hello", so I'll try here first - hopefully this thread still gets read .

If appropriate, I'd greatly appreciate it if someone involved would drop me an IM or note in-world or here sometime (or via Skype).


Thanks much!
Noland

Hi, yes it's still there - it's in a .5m cube with the railroad's symbol on all sides in Victoria City park. Right by the hub on one of the freebie carts.


Please note, the scripts aren't in the models but there is an example script (non-running) to look at. It's a *painfully* simple script that uses global positioning - and something I can make *far* better - but the issues are subtle. Consider that the cars have to cross sim borders, convincingly with respect to each other's position, with and without avatar riders.

I could of course 'dumb down' each object (locomotive, car) to the point that there was very little data to cross a sim border, but the objects are pretty light as is. Conversely I could have the cars message each other, but I'm not keen on "heavy script" solutions. Last resort.

Also, distance viewing - it's good to have each car roughly come into view at the same range. Otherwise, one will appear at a distance but not the other for some time. There's also the "phantom car" effect - the viewer client doesn't get the packet or something that the train has moved on, thus leaving a phantom car at a sim border until the view relogs.

I'm doing some experiments, and once I crack these issues to my satisfaction, expect a *far* better, smoother train.

Lastly - you BET I want to have rolling stock of all kinds running! Hobo rail is more than welcome, in fact I'd love it and so would others. What I do is rez a train at one end and de-rez it at the far end, which allows me to have entirely different trains every 10 minutes or so, if I want. Caledon is a whimsical place, and if every 100th train happened to be a modern bullet-train with a powerful airhorn, it would be worth the laugh! However, I still need to find and document the 'magic recipe' such that makes for good sim transitions. I've gotten some incredible multi-hundred prim train 'shapes' - but sadly I have no good way of getting these across a sim border in any reasonable fashion.

You are talking about the SLFlyer I think. We will not try to compete with the teleport system. The entrepreneurial move is to find an unmet need. Here, the need is in finding destinations. People come into SL and wonder what to do, where to explore. There is no adeguate service to meet that need.

The SLFlyer is a travel service. It presents destiations and invites people (via notecards and LMs) to visit tnem. It is now doing that in my poster hosters being put out around the Grand Calleta Terminal. Later, we will have lots of posters and a low prim scheme to present them. Then we will be looking for other places to host them.

The flying train concept is a marketing tool. I made a train lofter (particle system) to attract people to SLFlyer locations. The lofter simply sends up an image of our modernistic train. Zander (of Hobo RR fame), is building a (non-operating) train car to be displayed at Grand Calleta Terminal