Public land will go to auction

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Excellent! suggestion!

Great idea, Eltee! I endorse her suggestion for a donate option. It should be size-sensitive and "know" a 512 m2 plot when it sees one, and only offer that option when it's a 512 m2 plot. Otherwise donating 16 m2 here and there won't really help the L4L program out

However, I think we should get a kick-back for such donations The t-shirt is a nice idea, but money makes the world go round (even the inworld, yuk yuk). Perhaps LL pays you $L 0.5 / m2 for a donation, sort of like a tax break. So a 512 m2 plot would give you back a break of ... uhm ... lessee ... carry the 2 ... divide by zero ... FLASHING E? bah. L$ 256. Its not much but it'll help soothe that sting, and LL still gets L$ 256 from the sale to a new resident.

I'd be up for other options in the incentive program -- maybe add +10 or something to your behavior rating? Suggestions?

Please keep it as simple as possible.

1. Released land changes ownership to Governor Linden with For Sale flag set to sell exclusively back to the person who released it.
   
   
2. After at least an hour (preferably a day) the For Sale flag is unchecked, revoking the exclusive option for the releaser to buy it back, and an auction block is created for L$ for the plot.
   
   
3. The plot stays in the auction system until the first bid is made, then the auction countdown timer begins (for whatever number of days is customary). This eliminates the problems associated with a plot not being bid upon.
   
   
4. Land for the Landless continues to be an entirely separate system for new users, and is not in any way connected to this system. Those wanting to assist new users should do so using the existing land management tools which are available to them (ie posting offers on the forums, setting the exclusive sale name, etc).
   
   
5. Do not favor neighbors for pre-auction offers. It will add technical and social complexity which would far outweigh the added utility of such a feature.
   

Thanks for reading.

-- Kex

I agree with this completely. I generally think that having released land go to auction is a good idea, but I also strongly feel that existing landowners in the sim should get a crack at it first, especially those with adjoining land.

I think that sending released land to auction is a great idea. As for the specifics, Kex has the right idea:



Very well-though-out, Kex.

Word to Cubey Terra.

I heartily endorse this product/service as summarized by Kex Godel (and, earlier in the thread, by Hank Ramos).

this is the best idea i've heard so far.

i vote for this.

Love it! This has my vote as well.

Salazar

Why is it even an option to release land? How often does it happen by design, compared to how often it is done by accident?

Why not just remove this option? If someone really wants to give their land back to the Lindens, I'm sure an e-mail would do the trick.

--Almarea

Land is frequently released to public when somebody reduces their land tier, but has too much land. Or, if they cancel their account and stop paying the land fees.

say you have used up all your land tier, and you find a plot of land that is just perfect for you. and you really really really want it right now.

now your choices are
1) sell your previous land holdings,
2) tier up,
3) release the land.

sometime you can't do #1 fast enough.

not everyone can afford to tier up.

so releasing land can be an option.

Please make it so if it goes to auction and nobody bids on it that it goes back to public. I don't think this will happen very often now with land prices so high, but if prices go way down it will make it possible for people to buy less desirable land that might be just right for them without waiting for an auction to happen.

I endorse this product and/or service.

Well there would be no difference between the auction or actual public land. The auction would start at L$1 per sqm, just like public land. Instead of randomly running around SL looking for public land (or using your own, personal public land scanner), all you have to do is goto the old-land auction pages and bid on the public land starting at L$1 per sqm. The land would just sit in there until somebody bids on it.

The only difference between this scheme and old-style public land is that everyone will now have a chance to obtain public land, instead of just those few who have public land scanner networks.

Hmm, I rephrased my post that was here below. Looks like you can't delete posts anymore.

I think it would be nice when land is less scarce to be able to see public land on the map. So far as I know, there is no old auction page. Land that isn't bid on just goes into lala land until they decide to put it up for auction again.

[edited to say less scarce, not scarce]

Actually, all it does is provide Land Barons with even easier pickins', because 99% of us can't afford to bid against them.

I'm astounded that Philip has the gumption to say, "the intent of the auction system is to establish a fair price for land," when the true intent is so obviously to profit from the artificial land shortage. The auctions are LL's major revenue stream. I've got no problem with a business having a profit motive, but why not be up front about it?


This just in: The Rich Get Richer.

Details at 11.


BTW, where are all those people who predicted that the Land Barons would be wiped out when prices collapsed??? Inquiring minds want to know.

The auctions will be fairer than the current system, which involves the persistent use of land scanners so that land barrons with scripting abilities get first crack at L$1 per sqm land.

Now, the land barrons will have to complete with others for land, and will no longer be able to get a huge windfall of buying up L$1 per sqm land and reselling at a huge profit.

People will pay the going rate for land, say L$4-8 per sqm or less depending on if others want the land. Land barrons will have to compete, and won't get all the land for L$1. The *huge* profits will disappear. Yes, people can still land speculate, but the huge L$1 per sqm giveaway to the Land Barrons will be over.

The average cost of land is a separate issue from public land. That is controlled by the market and by how fast LL releases land to statisfy demand.

Blackadder -

Actually, The auctions are NOT the majority of our revenues. Additionally, the cost of the servers for the land is high - remember that each 16 acres is simulated by 1 server machine.

Our management goal is to have the price of land stay roughly constant, but right now we aren't meeting demand. So we are ramping up and putting more sims online.

Perhaps the problem lies with the land barons buying and then immediately reselling for a high profit. It might be beneficial both for the SL economy and LL to freeze the resale of land after an auction (a month, two?) to discourage current practices. Special situations could be looked at by a Linden personally (someone IM's a Linden saying they need to sell the land because of xyz) and it can be up to their discretion whether or not to release the lock on the land sale.

The land shortage indeed seems artifically created by the barons, who buy land as soon as it's auctioned and then resell it. A policy such as this may help alleviate some of this barony.

I agree whole heartedly taun... it wouldn't seem to be in the SL communities overall interest to have people buy land at auction for the *SOLE* purpose of re-selling it in game (which is a far *FAR* too common occurance at the moment). All that does is create an artificial 'middle man' between LL and the eventual 'resident' landowner.

seeing auction land IMMEDIATELY set for sale in game (within seconds/minutes, and often at not small multiples of the auctioned price) of the auction close, is an all too common, and disheartening occurance at the moment.

I agree Eltee, it is disheartening. However, I do support the right of the Land Barrons to play market speculation. That's their right to do that, just like the rest of us.

There are two issues here: Pervasive Public Land Scanning and Playing the Land Market. Both are interrelated, but different.

The solution, in my mind, with the Land Market is that Linden Labs is not releasing new land fast enough to keep the market in check. The current land market is way too expensive. LL can fix this by releasing more land. The market will correct itself eventually, once enough land is out there to bring the prices down.

Hank there is a LOT of land for sale in Second life and even more still that is up for auction. LL is doing a good job keeping up with the *real* land demand. The *artificial* land demand is being created by those who buy land at auction and sell it for double or triple their cost 10 minutes later. Go to the Land For Sale screen and you'll see tons of white plots, most of which are being resold by the various "real estate" groups in SL. If this practice was eliminated it would drive down the cost of land in both $L and $US and get older land in older sims reused. The demand for new land is artificial, created mostly by the barons who buy it and then sell it immediately. Putting mechanisms in place that discourage this behavior will help the situation.

Grr. I took a SS of the land for sale screen at work and just realized i cant post it to the thread

Hank answererd this way better than I could. My only concern was about preserving the availability of public land for everyone and how it was essentially only available to people with land scanning networks now.

So, it's either get rid of the land scanners or distribute public land differently. I don't see how it would be possible to eradicate scanning devices without hindering our ability to utilize scripting. So, to me, sending land that has been released as public land straight to auction is as close to what we used to have as we can now get. Everyone will have the same opportunity, instead of it going straight to someone with a land scanner.

Easier pickin's was Linden Lab handing public land directly to those with land scanners. With the move to send it to auction instead, those people will now have to bid against us for land that was released. No, not easier.

Whether one can afford the land or not is more of a consideration now. Also, finding it won't be so dependent on sheer luck as the parcels will be listed for auction instead of just appearing suddenly on the map or when one is out exploring. No more $1 per m2 as it's very unlikely that bids will go unchallenged.

Public land will be a different beast and it will go to the one who wants it the most and has the funds to get it. Those with little funds and no prior land holdings can still get 512 m2 via Land For The Landless at public land prices.

It's a shame that public land was exploited in this way and has resulted in this change. The damage has been done and it doesn't look like it can be undone.

Salazar