Coder Wanted for board game

(To whom it may concern, the game has been finished and has flopped pretty well. Remember this the next time you take a job for a share of the profits)

I am looking to hire a coder to help me with bitfields and scoring for a two-player 193-prim board.

Scoring is done in patterns, some patterns can be inside others and I don't know how to define those patterns in code so the scoring system recognizes them. (Board is laid out in linknum order and has 3 axis, kind of like chinese checkers).

Most of the basic control scripts are already written, it's only the scoring I need someone else for. You won't need to support your code, just please comment it well.

Offering 10,000L for the job.

Thanks.

Updated

Sounds fair enough. I'll drop you a line in game tonight for a bit more detail on the game and scoring rules .

nobody seems to want the job... they just seem to keep telling me how I should do it, when i'm perfectly happy to admit it's over my head and offer money for someone else to write it.

*throws the game in the trash with a sigh*

This is an old problem I've seen over the years in SL. The coders always say they're the unappreciated in SL, yet when you offer them a job, they have 1000 reasons not to take it.

They don't have time, or the in-game money you offer then is not worth their valuable RL time and somehow expect you to pay them RL hourly wages or something. Then they don't want to actually GIVE you the script you paid for, they want to retain IP rights and get money off of what you sell.

I don't envy you, I've been in the same boat, holding out wads of $L to get someone to actually sit down and WRITE a decent code that does what you want the way you want it to.

But they just walk by telling you that no one values their work as coders while you try to throw money at them.

heh, well I'm not one of the ones that wants an rl hourly wage or thinks they're unappreciated...

However the ones that want hourly wages usually have adopted that position for the reason that they don't want to take jobs. If you say that nobody listens , they just keep coming, and asking again and again. If you're not careful the feeling starts to develop that you are somehow obligated to those who don't want to learn to code. Which makes SL work, which I already have and don't want to think of SL as. There are also some who are as much artists as anything, and to them it's like having someone else ask for a drawing they can then claim as theirs but they couldn't actually do because they lack fingers or a pencil, etc. This sort of leads to the unappreciated thng...

If you are of the artistic/scripter variety then when you say you're unappreciated it means not for your ability, but people don't appreciate what you've created. Which means offering them a job is slightly akin to telling your parents your bored at the age of 10 and having your mother put you to work. Really not what you wanted. There is also the possibility that they aren't actually that capable, but are dissapointed when people are not astounded by their limited skill. I've seen that a few times. In that case you may not want to hire them anyway.

And yes, many of them really don't have time. writting complicated things in LSL, then revising, maintaining, and answering questions, takes more time than all but the largest non scripting projects (in my own experience. Yours may differ).

I'm still thinking about that game btw Las . I'm one of those who wasn't really lacking for things to do though.

Yeah, it's a tad odd that builders are everywhere at almost any price, from free to incredibly expensive. Most will take any project regardless of difficulty.

Yet when I throw out the need for a script for my board game, offer money, and show them the game itself they tell me how it needs to be redesigned, or how they would do it, but don't actually take the job. More than one has said "give me a copy of the game and i'll see if I can find the time to work on it" in a completely "ho-hum, if I get around to it I *MIGHT* care a tiny bit, you don't mind if it takes me 2 years to get to that point, right?"

I think Coders have gotten their egos a little overinflated, either take the job or don't take the job, don't lecture me about the damn project.

I have never, ever heard of software requirements specification issues. Neither has anyone else.

Could this perhaps contribute to the problem?

na, I don't think that applies in Las case. He has everything from diagrams to written instructions. It's pretty clear what he needs. Pattern matching in an efficient way in lsl using an object that isn't a nice grid is a pain though.

And ouch, I think I just got accused of having an overinflated ego. Although I don't think I told him to redesign the game.

I will take a look at the game and if it interests me (the game, not the job) then I will do it this weekend. It sounds like the type of code I would be good for.

I need to get back into the game scripting and doing it for someone else will keep me from putting it off. I'll IM you when I get home from work.

Well, the one time I talked to you, before we got to the point of me understanding what exactly you wanted, you told me "I don't think you want the job, 3 well known scripters have already turned it down". Which sounded like you were telling me that you didn't think I was good enough to do this, and so I should quit wasting your time. Which I did. Maybe I misunderstood you, and if I did, I apologize. Chalk it up to my overinflated ego

Anyway... I'm sorry this has been so frustrating for you. I hope you are able to make this work, your game sounded like a lot of fun from what little I gathered of how it works. I would offer my help again, but other committments have come along since the last time we spoke.

Good luck.

You are missing a few key elements to this theory of the 'unappreciated' scripters. If you cannot script, who is going to fix the bugs that will invariably occur with each update or LSL change or edit?

Will you pay them for tech support to? Do you have any idea how much a pain it is to deal with customers, let alone customers who are not even yours.

The amount of money you throw is not worth the hassle or the time and effort needed to make the script and product work well. Why should they make it for you, let you reap the profits when they themselves can make the same thing without having to fix your customer service concerns?

Getting someone to build and texture is a dime a dozen for the simple fact it's not nearly as intricate or as effected by global client changes in-game as scripting.

Even finding good animators who want to take the time to do YOUR work is rather self-serving to think they are the ones who care only about themselves. Bascially if you want to do something right, do it yourself or coordinate a team of people where you have set positions and money divided up accordingly.

There are some very good ppl that post on this forum that offer ample amounts of help with scripts and are willing to teach, but I think you and anyone who blames a scripter or anyone with a superior skill set needs to take some personal accountability and try to learn for themselves. If that wall seems too high to climb you can do what most ppl do and go buy products all over SL.

In one simple three word phrase this boils down as many things in SL and RL do: Supply versus Demand.

-fin-

~ Calix ~

p.s. - to offer 10k L$ is rather low balling, especially for a quality script which can in the right build can profit easily 10x that...I'd suggest offering a % of profits as well as an upfront fee for the scripting.

p.s. - to offer 10k L$ is rather low balling, especially for a quality script which can in the right build can profit easily 10x that...I'd suggest offering a % of profits as well as an upfront fee for the scripting.

Hrrm, lemme see how to respond to this.

#1 i'm taking a 10,000L loss on this job, because the item most likely won't be sold but will be given away.

#2 i'll throw the damn thing out before I keep taking all this crap from people that want to critique my work on MY project.

You don't get hired to paint a house them bitch about how the house isn't built right, or ask for a cut of the rental fees.

In the end, you'll pay what the market suggests, or you'll do it yourself. Take your pick!

you know. they might actually be right though. (shock, horror).

Ok, let's see if I can put some explanation behind this.

Scripting has a big difference from most of the other SL disciplines, with the possible exception of animation: scripting can be wrong. If you make some mistakes in building, then the build might look ugly or not be as good as it could but it's still there and achieves what it was set out to do. If a script's wrong, it crashes and starts saying or shouting error messages all over the sim and then the object is useless until someone resets it. It's exactly why it's so much more stressful to make computer games than films. Taking on a scripting job for someone is essentially offering to spend as much time as it takes, because you can never guarantee (given the vagaries of SL) having all the bugs fixed in a finite time. It's also much closer to what most scripters do for RL work. Would you be keen to take on a job knowing that no matter how long it took, you'd get paid the same, and it might take any amount of time?

With something like a board game, most of the actual work is in the script. Yes, you can do a beautifully built board and you may have done so, but essentially you are still asking the scripter to do the majority of the work and then complaining that they might ask for a commission. If the item was a house and you were getting the door scripted then you might say that would be considered "painting the house", but making a board game and having it scripted for you is equivalent to making the house livable. Now in this case it appears you were planning to give the item away, did you tell the people that?

You don't need to spend 5 years in college to learn how to paint, neither are you expected to provide your own paint for free (or in this case bandwidth, electricity).

Are you saying that you need to spend 5 years in college to learn how write scripts in Second Life?

I respectfully disagree - in my case it would take at least 5 years (probably more) of training for me to be able to paint anything that was any good.

Contact me in second life (Ozone Moe), my game Factory will analyse your project.

I know nothing about the subject scripters, and I'm kinda confused, so could you clear this up?
Some of you don't take jobs because you could could make the idea, but you don't wanna make up ideas, so just sit around complaining?

I do not understand your font.

As for taking jobs, most people who can script well are creative enough to think up their own ORIGINAL ideas.

I know this seems odd, but I've actually seen it with my eyes open.

Abre Los Ojos!




Calix

Yeah, but it wouldn't it be nice (And some extra dough) to help out us who aren't awesome scripters? Some of have good ideas too, but can't make 'em happen.

I play this game for fun. If your project is an interesting challenge and I think it would be fun, I will happily take a look at doing it for the price you mentioned. Especially if I could have a single copy of the finished game for my own amusement.

I've done some pattern matching algorithms in the past on other platforms than SL, they usually amuse me.

Contact me in-game if interested.

-Sparky

Well, this is what I get for not following this thread.

The game is done, tho it has been a flop, nobody has been interested in it.

Racer Plisskin finished it, mainly through dogged determination because he wanted to play it, tho i'm sure the 10k helped.