Unless it has been said in a previous post.. you and your friend maybe getting mixed up with the origins of CopyBot... it was 'introduced' into SL by a group of which consistsed of 'some' lindens, and whats strange, with the blessing of LL.
Apparently it was justified as being 'because we can'.... same quote virus creators and hackers use I believe, I could be mistaken on the quote though LOL.
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Linden employees are allowed to take copies of any item they wish. |
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AWM Mars
Scarey Dude :¬)
Join date: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,398
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08-29-2007 06:07
_____________________
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Parsimony Paragon
SL Post-Anarchist, I Hope
Join date: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 195
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08-29-2007 11:05
Think of it as a way of saying Thank You to The Lindens for giving you world to make and sell stuff in. Think of it as Intellectual Property theft! |
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Rusty Satyr
Meadow Mythfit
Join date: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 610
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The horror!
08-29-2007 12:08
Someone didn't read the ToS.
under 3.2 - You retain copyright and other intellectual property rights with respect to Content you create in Second Life, to the extent that you have such rights under applicable law. However, you must make certain representations and warranties, and provide certain license rights, forbearances and indemnification, to Linden Lab and to other users of Second Life. [...] You also understand and agree that by submitting your Content to any area of the Service, you automatically grant (or you warrant that the owner of such Content has expressly granted) to Linden Lab and to all other users of the Service vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv a non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, transferable, irrevocable, royalty-free and perpetual License, under any and all patent rights you may have or obtain with respect to your Content, to use your Content for all purposes within the Service. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You further agree that you will not make any claims against Linden Lab or against other users of the Service based on any allegations that any activities by either of the foregoing within the Service infringe your (or anyone else's) patent rights. |
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Chiman Fassbinder
LV CEO/Terminal Radio CEO
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 66
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08-29-2007 12:16
you own the rights to the content in which you create as it may not be duplicated for sale without granted permission. BUT, you do not own the content LL actually owns anything that is created within the game. its a legal loophole mess. Yes they can take anything they want in the retrospect for any kind of research into griefing or issues that would require them to take said copies. but fact is i have linden employees as customers. Just because they can does not mean they will.
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Parsimony Paragon
SL Post-Anarchist, I Hope
Join date: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 195
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08-29-2007 12:21
Essentially, based on the last two posters' facts, the IP they grant is meaningless...eek!
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
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08-29-2007 23:24
Think of it as Intellectual Property theft! So spit it out, what have they "stolen" off you? _____________________
Level 38 Builder [Roo Clan]
Free Waterside & Roadside Vehicle Rez Platform, Desire (88, 17, 107) Avatars & Roadside Seaview shops and vendorspace for rent, $2.00/prim/week, Desire (175,48,107) |
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Lana Tomba
Cheap,Fast or Good Pick 1
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 746
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TOS-Terms Of Service-Read it!
08-30-2007 01:51
TOS states clearly that any and all content uploaded into secondlife becomes virtual and intellectual property of Linden Labs.
~Lana Tomba P.S. so..either they take it from you by clicking on it...or..they take it from you by being nosey and looking thru your inventory...either way..theyre only taking what theyve laid claim to and you said they could.(by aggreeing to the TOS) |
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Bradley Bracken
Goodbye, Farewell, Amen
Join date: 2 Apr 2007
Posts: 3,856
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08-30-2007 02:52
Think of it as Intellectual Property theft! Then use your intellect to create your own virtual world and the problem is solved. Sorry, it is such a non-issue. |
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Kevin Susenko
Voice Mentor
Join date: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 198
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08-30-2007 04:49
TOS states clearly that any and all content uploaded into secondlife becomes virtual and intellectual property of Linden Labs. ~Lana Tomba P.S. so..either they take it from you by clicking on it...or..they take it from you by being nosey and looking thru your inventory...either way..theyre only taking what theyve laid claim to and you said they could.(by aggreeing to the TOS) The TOS just says that the data itself is owned by LL, you still own the IP rights to the content that the data represents. From the KB, by Ginsu Linden (LL's resident lawyer): Felowen, thank you for your question. I am sorry for the confusion -- I will try to clarify with examples from other online services. In Second Life, subject to certain licenses in the terms of service, you retain the intellectual property rights you may have in your content, including copyrights. "Intellectual property rights" are completely separate to the rights of ownership of data -- the bits and bytes that reside on our servers. In order for us to provide the service of Second Life at a reasonable cost, we must retain the right to own what we physically own or control -- the server infrastructure, including the data on it. But ownership of bits and bytes of data does NOT by itself give Linden Lab the right to publish or distribute your copyrighted material. I think there is a good analogy to hosted email services, like the webmail services provided by many Internet portals. If you write an email on those services, you own the copyright to the content of that email. If you attach your copyrighted image to your email, you still own the copyright to that image. In providing the service of sending that email, the service provider hosts data that represents that email and the attached image. The service provider owns the server infrastructure, including the data on it, and stores that data for your email and attachment in the "Sent" mail folder. But they can and will delete that data anytime they need to, for service and scalability reasons. The email service is more valuable to the extent they can store more of your content, but for cost reasons they cannot guarantee that nothing will ever happen to that data. However, regardless of what happens to that data, under most terms of service for webmail that I've seen, you will still own the copyright to the content represented by that data. There's also an even longer explination regarding property rights and patents: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=4212 _____________________
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 (Overclocked - 2.8GHz) | Mobo: EVGA nForce 680i SLI | GPU: XFX nVidia GeForce 8800 GTX 768mb GDDR3 | Memory: 4gb DDR2 PC5300 667MHz Dual Channel | PSU: Antec Neo HE 550w | Sound: SoundBlaster X-Fi Xtrememusic | HDD: 950gb total SATA3 | OS: Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit
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AWM Mars
Scarey Dude :¬)
Join date: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,398
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08-30-2007 06:12
There are mixed messages there... LL state you own the copyright, but have allowed others to gain access to the binary data which is theirs (LL).. wha?
 So who has suffered the theft? Who should enforce their rules? If it was the binary data stolen, then isn't that the responsibility of LL? If Copybot was an 'excercise' by some now former employees of LL, aren't LL responsible to prevent them using the knowledge, only accessible by their employees, that created CopyBot? Isn't that part of the terms and conditions of their employment? _____________________
*** Politeness is priceless when received, cost nothing to own or give, yet many cannot afford -
Why do you only see typo's AFTER you have clicked submit? ** http://www.wba-advertising.com http://www.nex-core-mm.com http://www.eml-entertainments.com http://www.v-innovate.com |
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Kate McLaglen
Registered User
Join date: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 6
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08-30-2007 06:26
i agree with an earlier post.. i would be thrilled if a linden liked something i have created enough to take it... as long as they left one in my inventory so i could continue to sell it.
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Draco18s Majestic
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2,744
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08-30-2007 07:07
You also understand and agree that by submitting your Content to any area of the Service, you automatically grant (or you warrant that the owner of such Content has expressly granted) to Linden Lab and to all other users of the Service vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv a non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, transferable, irrevocable, royalty-free and perpetual License, under any and all patent rights you may have or obtain with respect to your Content, to USE your Content for all purposes within the Service. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You further agree that you will not make any claims against Linden Lab or against other users of the Service based on any allegations that any activities by either of the foregoing within the Service infringe your (or anyone else's) patent rights. This is NOT GRANTING ownership of your IP rights, it is granting LICENCE TO USE. See bolded section. |
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Kalel Venkman
Citizen
Join date: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 587
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By definition...
08-30-2007 07:32
* The Lindens work for Linden Lab.
* Linden Lab supplies the platform that permits the creation and persistent storage of the items you make in Second Life. * Linden Lab has a copy of everything anyone's ever made in Second Life. * Second Life cannot be operated and maintained by Linden Lab without this level of access, since they own the machines and databases it all runs on. Therefore, * Linden Lab employees have full access to anything anyone's ever made in Second Life. This is neither good nor evil. It is simply a requirement for the very existence of the metaverse we call Second Life. |
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
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08-30-2007 14:35
As part of being a service provider, they are allowed to access any part of the service they deem necessary to maintain and enhance the proper functioning of the service. Almost all service providers have universal access clauses in their contracts and terms of service which allow them to do whatever they wish internally with any data stored in and/or transmitted through their service.
When you use Hotmail or Googlemail, for example, there are engineers and administrators working on those systems who can see you emails. They shouldn't be looking at your emails just on whims, however, and it is usually a CoC violation for them to do so without a valid reason related to maintaining or enhancing the service itself. That said, most Lindens actually pay for the content they obtain from residents, but they don't HAVE to, if doing so would be considered part of their job to maintain and control the system. |
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Rusty Satyr
Meadow Mythfit
Join date: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 610
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08-30-2007 14:55
This is NOT GRANTING ownership of your IP rights, it is granting LICENCE TO USE. See bolded section. I'm clear on the difference. My post was directed at the OP who was outraged over LL's ability to copy/take whatever items they want, without paying for them. In ?2006? Philip and Cory gave a talk to a group of folks at Google. During the demonstration they showed several items, including Starax's wand, and a fancy gun created by someone whose name I don't recall or was not mentioned. Naturally, we would assume that Cory came into possession of those items because Starax or the gun owner sold him one... or gave him one. But perhaps he just helped himself. Does it matter? Are Cory or Philip profiting directly by showing off someone else's work inside their world? Are they in the wrong to demonstrate products users have created, with or without paying or getting a sign-off from the creator? The ToS basically allows them to do this. But their rules for IP rights forbids them from creating a vendomat that sells Starax's wands. Between black and white there are lots of shades of gray on this issue. |
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Draco18s Majestic
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2,744
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08-31-2007 05:20
Does it matter? Are Cory or Philip profiting directly by showing off someone else's work inside their world? Are they in the wrong to demonstrate products users have created, with or without paying or getting a sign-off from the creator? The ToS basically allows them to do this. Said video also made me want one of those wands. I still don't have it, but at the time I wanted it. So...free advertising? I personally don't see a problem. It's in the ToS that you grant unlimited licence to use anything I create on SL, just like every term I go to school I sign a piece of paper allowing the school to have unlimited use of any art I create for any class. So, Lindens can walk up to something and just take it, big deal. "But the didn't pay me for it!" So? You lost out on an average of L$1000 (based on item prices I've seen). Big freaking deal. I'd be more pissed if Ginko closed it's doors taking my L$650,000 with it. Oh, wait. That happened and what'd I do? Shrugged my shoulders and moved on. |
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Smiley Barry
Second Lounge Owner
Join date: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 42
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09-01-2007 01:57
For my understanding they can do what they wish..........By why should they? they can get linden dollars to buy things. As long as they sign and ecplain what it was for. Not really  From what I heard, they got infinte L$ '^_^ (biggest amount i've ever seen in a video by a Linden was 4 million Linden Dollars O.O)-Smiley OUT. _____________________
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Rusty Satyr
Meadow Mythfit
Join date: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 610
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09-01-2007 03:06
I'd be more pissed if Ginko closed it's doors taking my L$650,000 with it. Oh, wait. That happened and what'd I do? Shrugged my shoulders and moved on. Dude! Ouch! =( |
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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09-02-2007 16:53
Every time a Linden uses a Godmode power, such as Take Copy, it gets put into a log. If the Linden in question can't explain why they did it, they are in _big_ trouble.
Lindens can also choose to have unlimited L$, but again, only for debugging purposes. For their own purchases in-world, they recieve a L$ stipend as part of their salary (I don't know how much) and can also buy L$ in the same way everyone else can. And, I've sold several objects to Lindens, who bought them from my vendors in the usual way and paid L$ for them. They don't abuse it to take resident objects they want. |