The financial dangers of island living - LL complicit but shirking all responsibility
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Kratax Skillman
Warrior and Dragon
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 123
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11-03-2007 02:39
Thanks for advice. Though I don't have that good friends that I would share an island with. And renting is not an option for me, because I don't have time for taking care of issues like neighbours doing something that is not allowed or neighbours started fighting each other.
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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11-04-2007 05:30
From: Qie Niangao What I mean is that, with a few noble exceptions posting here, most Estate sim owners are happy that the situation is confusing to buyers.
Well from my point of view I would rather buyers weren't confused. I worry that buyers won't understand the tier structure because although you have to agree to the covenant, the actual UI when you buy doesn't specifically inform the buyer that tier is actually due, in fact it does the opposite and informs them that their tier won't change.
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Haravikk Mistral
Registered User
Join date: 8 Oct 2005
Posts: 2,482
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11-05-2007 02:14
From: Ciaran Laval Well from my point of view I would rather buyers weren't confused. I worry that buyers won't understand the tier structure because although you have to agree to the covenant, the actual UI when you buy doesn't specifically inform the buyer that tier is actually due, in fact it does the opposite and informs them that their tier won't change. Agreed. Really there ought to be a way for SL to handle the tier payments by allowing estate owners to set a rent per square-metre, or a tier structure of their own. When a land-buyer then purchases the land they would be given a dialogue telling them they will pay L$X for the land plus L$Y per month on rental payments. If an estate owner needs to raise prices then they can choose to do it for new purchases only (ie existing tenants pay what they're already paying), or to all parcels, in which case current tenants must agree to the price increase within a week or so or forfeit the land. You can also add in some security in that if an estate owner seizes the parcel, then the tenant could receive an appropriate refund automatically, e.g - if they paid for a week's rent and have four days remaining then they get four-days of rent back. This would have the advantage that you can also just use your USD balance directly, and don't have to put so much trust into the estate managers since the system would offer you some measure of protection.
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naphtali Hawks
Registered User
Join date: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 8
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Landlord Theft
09-13-2008 11:56
THEFT FROM LANDLORDS CONTINUES IN MANY WAYS.
I have and i know others before me have bought land and met with the same or a similar problem. A landlord that just out of the blue says you must remove all your objects as he is giving up the land. The major difference with this Landord is that it can only be called theft if that landlord is not going broke, is purchasing other sims (open sims) to continue land rental, takes tier that is payed a full 14 days before it is due and then 3 days after tier date has actually arrives sends out a message to all to remove all. What protection does the tenant have ...and if none .....WHY not?????? This is direct THEFT as the sim owner Knew while taking tiers that he would not honour the rentals for the coming month.
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
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09-13-2008 17:51
From: Malachi Petunia I'm somewhat surprised that we'd not seen a public outcry from displaced sub-lessors when Bragg's account was terminated and his sims liquidated by LL (or perhaps I missed it).. I didn't think he actually owned that much land seeing his business model was buying land at newbie rates with disposable alts and reselling quickly for profit.
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
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09-13-2008 17:53
From: Stephen Zenith No, what I meant was that LL are your landlord on the Mainlad, and if they stop paying their bills to their hosting company, you lose your land because of what LL have done. It's unlikely, i know, but the principle is there.
Or they could just take it off you for some perceived breach of the ToS, just like an estate owner can take land back off you.
You only own mainland for as long as LL is willing and able to allow you to own it Yeah but if LL dissapeared overnight it will affect evryone and every business, not just the tennants of a few hundred islands.
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Level 38 Builder [Roo Clan]
Free Waterside & Roadside Vehicle Rez Platform, Desire (88, 17, 107)
Avatars & Roadside Seaview shops and vendorspace for rent, $2.00/prim/week, Desire (175,48,107)
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Zolen Giano
Free the Shmeats!
Join date: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 146
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09-18-2008 00:40
I guess I'm the first one to notice that this thread was started LAST year.
Seems not much has changed....
zg
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Rawhead Snoodle
Registered User
Join date: 18 Sep 2008
Posts: 25
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09-20-2008 06:11
From: Ava Glasgow It's a private estate. It disappears when the owner stops paying for it.
Burgundy: Sorry to hear about your landlord screwing you over. Did you lose any no-copy items when the sim disappeared? If so, you may be able to convince LL to re-open the sim long enough for you and other residents to retrieve your items. I remember seeing at least 2-3 similar complaints in this forum within the past month, and in each case LL let the residents get their stuff back (but not their money back from the owner). Actually, what you should do is call a lawyer. Linden Labs is notorious for bending over backwards to appease the demands of lawyers--no matter how lame or far fetched they are. They're terrified of more bad publicity, and will do anything they can to avoid it.
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Kalderi Tomsen
Nomad Extraordinaire!
Join date: 10 May 2007
Posts: 888
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09-30-2008 06:00
Something like this is really worth the cost of a lawyer? Really? You can't pay him/her in Lindens, remember!
Yes, this is still an issue. Yes, Second Life is a bit like the Wild West - it will pull suckers in and spit them out if they aren't careful.
You have to KNOW that, and UNDERSTAND it.
I really would like to see something from LL that educates people, but would they even read it? I doubt it. Just like in RL there are scam artists that are willing to take your money and disappear.
Asking LL to somehow be responsible for this and even pay compensation, well, that would be like the government bailing out banks that made bad loans - nobody would EVER do that, right? *grin*
Seriously, though - people really need to take responsibility for researching what they do and understanding before leaping. If they don't, well, I don't see why LL should put its profits on the line to protect them.
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Rawhead Snoodle
Registered User
Join date: 18 Sep 2008
Posts: 25
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10-06-2008 07:52
From: Kalderi Tomsen Something like this is really worth the cost of a lawyer? Really? You can't pay him/her in Lindens, remember!
Yes, this is still an issue. Yes, Second Life is a bit like the Wild West - it will pull suckers in and spit them out if they aren't careful.
You have to KNOW that, and UNDERSTAND it.
I really would like to see something from LL that educates people, but would they even read it? I doubt it. Just like in RL there are scam artists that are willing to take your money and disappear.
Asking LL to somehow be responsible for this and even pay compensation, well, that would be like the government bailing out banks that made bad loans - nobody would EVER do that, right? *grin*
Seriously, though - people really need to take responsibility for researching what they do and understanding before leaping. If they don't, well, I don't see why LL should put its profits on the line to protect them. I want you to re-read the very first line of your post, and then be enlightened that the "pain in the ass" aspect of litigation, as well as its prohibitive cost in most people's minds, is exactly why Linden Labs continues to do this sort of thing. You're *letting them screw you by not standing up for yourself*. 45 bucks in any major city (cheaper if you're rural I'm sure) is enough to have a lawyer pass a quick letter on their letterhead on to Linden Labs legal department.
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MoxZ Mokeev
Invisible Alpha Texture
Join date: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 870
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10-06-2008 08:36
From: JessicaNichol Kappler
Had I known then what I know now, then sure I never would have forked out money for my 4096m parcel on a private estate island. I have pretty much given up on ever recovering the money I paid to take control of that land on the private estate. Live and learn. But I am rather surprised that the objects on the island for the OP were not returned before the sim was shut down. You would think the Lindens would have done that at least before they pulled the plug on the island.
Why would anyone pay big $L for a private estate 4096 parcel when there are so many estate owners out here who charge only a single $L to buy the parcel and gain all land rights? All I pay is a monthly rental fee for my spot plus the one linden that the land cost. That's it. I seriously enjoy, and would much rather "rent" from a reputable estate owner. To me, mainland is ugly and it lags. I agree that there is always the possibility that the estate owner could default and your parcel could go poof at any given time and if that happens, you just find another spot to rent. As a precaution, I've backed up what is backupable (like my house). I don't have any mega expensive items and mostly I've built my own furnishings. My only con would be if it went pewf right after I'd paid my monthly rent. Yeah, that would suck but I think my LL would give us some heads up.
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