Voice Chat, good or bad move ?

I was thinking the entire Rogers and Hammerstein Collection. Then maybe Tommy.


After that Miss Saigon, Les Mis, maybe Rent, and then some other stuff.

Oh, Miss Saigon. I love the one. Lerner and Lowe always did nice stuff, too.

Perhaps certain selections from The Producers may be appropriate.

eeeps were on to Kareoke again?

When Linden will come up with idea to use VoIP telephone to make calls to real world? I think it has very bright future. I guess the first step to make calls inside Second Life already is done.

Well, I won't be using Voice for several reasons, and I'm sure some of these apply to many other people as well:

1) I listen to i-tunes or have the TV on while SLing lots of the time, and I can't enjoy my music while voicing.

2) I often have to go into RL when in SL, and missing out on voiced conversations would be no fun. I love chat, I can scroll up and catch up. Plus I can SAVE chat and put it into my profile, or into a notecard to tease someone later on

3) I hate headphones, I really do. And those earbud things too. I find them very uncomfortable. And the idea of being "leashed" to my PC is disturbing. Lots of times I get up, stretch, do some quick little exercise while in SL and in chat conversations. The little microphones I can sit on my desk would not work either for me for various reasons too.

4) I'm sure it will create more lag...no thank you.

5) I like the way I imagine other people sound, based on the look they have crafted for their avs.

6) Phone calls and voice don't mix.

7) I really don't want to hear the massive chaos that will ensue in heavily populated places.

I like the ability to have multiple private conversations in chat at once, thank you. Voice does nothing for me there.

9) Getting hit on is annoying enough, now I have to hear it too? Again, no thanks.

10) I feel sad that some people who are deaf will definitely receive some prejudice here. It's sad, but I have no doubt it will happen.

11) I am a major introvert (INFP, heheh) and I do not feel comfortable talking a lot. Chat is very relaxing for me, I don't have to be there in front of my PC to get a message, whatever. And it helps me feel like I am alone because I have my own music on, or TV, and SL becomes almost like an interactive book, in a way. I find that at times I can be very outgoing and fun in chat, but I have used voice before to talk to other people, and know that I am my usual quiet self in those situations.

Voice will be OFF for me...not that it matters to me what anyone thinks about me...I always have SL muted anyway to avoid the annoying noises that some people spam with gestures. I don't want voice spam added to my little sanctuary.

VOICE OFF

Its atotally stupid move, but thay are going to do it anyway, irregardless of the consequences.

Personally, for me, it will be somewhere betwen a slight annoyance and minor irritation. It will be very difficult for me to use because my computer is in theliving room andI have an 8 yyear old son. He is usually watching tv or doing homework while I am on the computer. The background noise from the tv will be difficult for others to deal with. I wont want to use a head set because I need to keep track of what is going in m yRL living room. If I get into an adult conversation - not necessarily sexual in nature but just adult..things an 8 year old doesn't need to hear - I dont feel like sharing that with him. The noise from the voice will compete withthe tv or, more importantly, his homework.

People who ABSOLUTELY MUST have voice NOW can use skype or other services right? Why is it so necessary?

Voice will completely ruin SL for many people. It wont for me, but I feel for those folks.

The good news is it probably won't work anywhere near as well as people think it will. the bad news is, I still believe it will mess up other technical facets of SL.

Its a dumb idea, but hey!! Dumb ideas are a fact of life here. We just have to get used to them.

Many people are missing the point. This is not for being disturbed or abused. If you do not like it, do not use it or turn it off. Nobody is forcing you to stay in the middle of crowd to listen to noise. You can have private conversation with people from different places, with your friends who are far from here. You can participate in business meetings like sitting in the office, and more …

Wish that would happen, but how often will someone write out a transcript (current text chat) of what they are saying out loud? Slightly confused as to why you brought up IM. Are you saying that those that can't hear can still have side conversations with people without needing to hear the main one? Sure, use chat or IM, but without a transcript of what is being said aloud there isn't a way to participate in the entire conversation (the part said aloud). I admit that maybe they don't have a problem talking with me, but do not want to have to "write" everything they "say" outloud. Nor do I necessarily want to force them to write out what they are saying outloud. So the door to full and uncomplicated possible participation closes (inserted possible as maybe they wouldn't want to talk with me anyway; just a possibility that they would).

To answer your post.

It does very much effect Deaf people like me. As Deaf means Me and all other deaf people can not hear you and them using voice. In that alone that cuts me and other deaf people right out of the conversation.

And it has been my experience such as like in there.com everyone used voice. everyone acted as it would kill them to type a few words. This will be the same for the ones using voice, people like me will be clueless to the conversation and can not take part in it.

Voice is something that should be left out of SL.

to your comment " Not to be insensitive but if you approach a group of people now and type “hello” and they don’t respond, or don’t respond right away do you assume that its because they know you are deaf?"

What in the world are you saying? Typing has nothing to do with hearing, typing is written words not sounds. You must know no deaf people in RL. This is not RP thanks, this is RL.

You know deaf people like me don't talk with and communicate with voice in rl we use Sign language. Since we can't hear.

The issues concerning the deaf are valid. And I can see for example voice town hall meetings being a problem for those with out voice capabilities, but I really don’t see town hall meetings being held as voice only either. Anyway I’m just trying to dispel as much of the paranoia as possible here.

Sonia Nagy said:
“Slightly confused as to why you brought up IM.”

I’m saying that people hold conversations all the time that you or I or anyone else can’t follow. I’m sure you’ve taken an IM while communicating with others in open chat. And your decision to share what’s being discussed in the IM with others around you is your decision.
And the same would be true when voice and non-voice are together as a group (and all if this is concerning groups of people…one on one would of course be…well in your case non-voice) those speaking in voice should feel obliged either as a friend or by “simple etiquette” to share what’s being said with the non-voice. It doesn’t need to be verbatim does it? I’ve had lengthy conversations with mixed voice and non-voice on the beta grid, and I don’t believe anyone felt shunned.

Cinthya Vavoom said:
“What in the world are you saying? Typing has nothing to do with hearing, typing is written words not sounds. You must know no deaf people in RL. This is not RP thanks, this is RL.”

My comment was in regards to SL. And I do know deaf people, and I’m NOT GOING THERE in this conversation. I would not ignore anyone that wanted to communicate with me, by type or voice. And when the two are mixed I would lean towards type simply because everyone would be more able to participate. I’m trying to form a consensus on voice etiquette. The Voice Mentors Group has a secondlife wiki…
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Voice_Mentors
I will see to it that we add a page specifically for voice etiquette. Please check it out.

DK

I took a look at the There.com site and watched the highly annoying demo video. I don't know how voice will paly out here, but i don't think There is good barometer in any case. it seems to be a juveniley vapid place, and I think SL is at least somewht better.

Its very clear that your clueless about deaf people and you are the kind of person who will never have any clue.

People who come acustom to talking in voice rarly use typing. Thats how it was in There.com and thats how it will be here in SL if voice is widly accpeted.

DEAF MEANS CAN NOT HEAR. THAT MEANS PEOPLE LIKE ME WILL NOT BE ABLE TO HEAR SPEAKING, AND CAN NOT HEAR SOUNDS. THAT MEANS CAN NOT TAKE PART IN ANY CONVERSTATIONS THAT ARE USING VOICE, ONLY TYPING.

So until you have lived as a deaf peorson don't try telling me how it is to be one when you have no idea.

[EDIT]
When I stated “I’m not going there”, I meant I didn’t want to drag this thread into some pissing contest over who has what worse then the other.
[EDIT]
Sorry you’re so sure that voice will ruin SL for you. I hope you’re wrong.
DK

Look, people, the reason they are doing this is BECAUSE PEOPLE ASKED FOR IT. There will be a way to turn it off, which means YOU DON"T HAVE TO USE IT. What is wrong with some of you? Mind your own business, it'll keep you busy full time. So some people will use it during cyber sex, who cares?! Sex sells, mates, that is a simple fact of life, and it is a big selling point for SL, a world in which 80% of the land is rated M for Mature.

Some of the posters in this thread remind me of the people who complain about sex and violence on their tellys, it never crosses their narrow minds that other people want to see it, nor does it dawn on them that there is an "Off" switch.

The same thing applies here, some people asked for voice chat to be integrated into SL, the Linden's researched it and found it practical. Deal with it. If you do not approve, turn the bloody thing off and go somewhere where they are texting, but do not disparage those who have asked for this feature, nor those who use it.

As for the deaf, I feel for you (I am hearing impaired), and it is not being said that they will take away text, and if people will not text to you if you let them know you cannot do voice, perhaps they were not worth talking to in the first place.

My last point to be made, how many of you complaining about it are paying for your membership? If you are not, kindly be quiet and let those of us who do continue the conversation. It is rather like a non citizen complaining about a law or custom in a foreign country. Whether or not it is explicitly stated anywhere, when it comes down to it, as a non paying member, you are simply a guest in the house of those who support Linden Labs. Pay your 7.00USD and I'll be happy to listen to you whine.

You're only addressing part of the picture though. For all current residents, we remember when there was only text and certainly didn't mind since we all stuck around.

Imagine the experience the new residents will get: orientation islands will be voice-enabled, so some of the new residents bumping into each other will be using voice from the very first hour, or they will run into a volunteer who *talks* them through their questions. Voice will be an integral part of their introduction to SL, LL will make sure of that, it's costing them too much not to.

Now skip ahead a year and the majority of residents on the grid are those who never knew an SL before voice and voice will as integrated as typing in main, or IM'ing. Will people still type? Of course they will, but by then some of the people in these threads who categorically refuse to voice will find themselves pretty isolated leading some to just leave.

Voice will be something you can turn off whenever it's inconvenient, but you won't be able to do without voice altogether and it's the latter which is probably the primary concern that people are highlighting.

You're drawing a lot of hypothetical conclusions here. Have you actually used v-chat yet?

What I've seen so far from ACTUALLY USING IT is that people in general make an effort to pay attention to the typing that's going on and try to include people that can't/won't use v-chat. Sure there are some jerks on v-chat but there are jerks everywhere!!

I predict a lot of private islands aren't going to opt in on v-chat and there will be plenty of places where it will be just too overwelming for people to be on v-chat (welcome area on the main grid for example) and will resort to chat.

Don't be so afraid of change!

100% agree
Voice may be nice, but please just limit it to IM

I will never use voice in SL. Voice is going to ruin Second Life, it's already slower than hell with the features it currently has.

Plus, for RL girls it will make life hell, for non-RL girls it will make Second Life hell, it will ruin SL for anyone wanting to escape their RL self, it will turn it into XBOX LIVE which is terrible!!

Mark my words this is the end of Second Life.

Onwards to better VRs.

Oh and BTW. For all of us who play with someone sleeping in the room and no volume turned on, or who play at work secretly, it will be ruined.

Here's what will happen.

Someone comes up to your avatar and starts voice-talking. You do not respond. So then they, now annoyed, go to type and basically will call you a "textfag" or be mean to you for not using voice. Anyone not using voice cause their computer does not support it or they can't due to other circumstances will be excluded from the voice-using populace, and the voice users will have the upper hand since they will have both voice and text.

This will be the worst thing ever to happen in Second Life and will ruin it for the vast majority of players, who use it to roleplay as someone else.

Truly a sad day for LL. If people "need" voice in order to get help on help island, then they should not be playing Second Life. <shakes head>

You have not actually used it. That was just in beta test. Most of us don't go to beta server. When it comes to the real server you will see, it will ruin Second Life. Not only does the network grid already not have enough bandwidth even for regular chatting with text, which often is so slow it takes 20 seconds to appear in group chat, but also, NO ONE WANTS VOICE. Nobody asked for this; people who wanted voice (which is primarily people who are illiterate and/or dyslexic and/or cannot type and/or cannot spell) can just run teamspeak or whatever similar thing they want to run.

But the most important thing is, I do not want to be constantly harassed by guys!!! It's bad enough already, let alone with slugs trying to cyber me over voice. YUCK! I have seen how on XBOX LIVE people treat you different when they see you are a girl. I sometimes use male alts just to get left alone. Now it will be ruined... terrible.

If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT. Don't add features nobody wants to Second Life.

How about FIXING all the lag issues first? How about giving us features that would make Second Life better instead of adding things that will essentially ruin it? Sometimes I can't understand how Corporate America (i.e. LL in this case) actually operates. Don't care what the customers think, just care about their "agenda". Even when it affects the millions of users, they don't take into account what that affect might be, and just procede blindly with changes nobody wants or cares about, while meanwhile, the client just keeps getting slower, lag keeps getting worse. So hey, lets add more bandwidth-consuming audio to the mix, hey! That will really help sim lag. Sheesh.

But first and foremost it's about "virtual reality" vs. "regular reality". If your "real life" voice is in it, then it is not "virtual reality" anymore!!!!!! How come anybody does not get this???

Oh yeah, one last thing. Many people do not have the hardware (i.e. headset) to use voice. Many people get online at coffee shops or internet cafes where perhaps they do not want their chats known, and sit against a wall to hide their screens. People are in a loud place, or they are playing another sex, or they don't want their identities to be known to someone who might recognize their voice (especially in the case of celebrities) etc.

So you will be creating, again, an arbitrary set of classes of people who will be forced to have assumptions made about them because of their use of voice (or not). Assumptions which ALL pertain to FIRST life. So essentially the v-chat feature is the first feature ever introduced to Second Life that adds some weight from aspects of first life, without any choice on the user's part. Because if you choose NOT to use voice, then all sorts of assumptions will be attached to that. And if you chose TO use voice, then it will force your real-life personality, sex, age, in many cases race or ethnicity, speech disorders, anything that perhaps you are enjoying playing something different than your current self, all of this will be forced into your "Second Life" and it will RUIN it.

It totally takes the "Second" out of "Second Life" for all those reasons, whether you use the feature or not, since many people WILL be using it.

Finally the horrible thing about this is that there is no way to stop it from happening. It's like watching a train wreck. This feature will come, and it will ruin SL for many, and some people will like it and make fun of all the people who it ruins it for, and it will split the remaining residents, and sims will be divided into v-chat areas and non-v-chat areas.

You're right, it will be change, but using pithy aphorisms like "do not fear change" is retarded, since before a change happens, we have the opportunity using reason and thought to determine whether such a change should occur. And clearly this one should not occur, yet everyone assumes that the irrational will of LL is incapable of being reasoned with, and this sad day will come and nothing can stop it.

Well I've quit other MMO's because of stupidity on the part of the company running it, and moved on to (what I thought was) a better one. But if this is the way it's headed then you can count me out.

I am new to SL but these are excellent points it seems to me. Voice could potentially count against:
- women (not wishing to be stalked)
- non-English speakers
- the deaf and / or dumb
- other disabilities (e.g. MS where talking causes fatigue)
- cross-gender role players who wish to remain "in role"
- gays, TXs, or anyone who sounds "camp" in RL
- people with stutters
- people who in RL never get a word in edgeways through confidence issues etc
- anyone who just hates the sound of their own voice
- quiet, shy, and / or nervous people

Yes, I can see great advantages as well, but mainly in certain uses of it. Maybe it should be restricted only to...?:

- IMs between people who make that choice
- lectures
- group discussions

There are other areas, not mentioned, where it could also be disastrous:

- Public chat areas, where fast-moving lines of text (where right now you can at least try to take part in 3 conversations simultaneously) would become merely babble, and we all know what a crowded bar sounds like?
- Live music could be ruined by conversation, even from people who are merely thoughtless not deliberately disruptive

I would hate the idea of anyone trying to pressure me to use voice if I don't want to, or to compel me to justify my reasons.

It is people like this (read his last sentence!) who make me fear most about the introduction of voice. It's people like this - who SHOUT the loudest in RL, let alone SL - who have always ending up "running the show". I will say to Mr. Elderslie (i) I will not whine, whether or not I am a paying resident (ii) your paid account does not make you more of a resident than I am, and your analogy about "foreigners" is both ignorant and gross. Your analogy should have been about people with money, some of whom trample down those who do not have it, for no other reason than they think money brings them status and power over their fellows.

So Mr. Elderslie, all I ask from you is that you learn courtesy and respect; that you do not, in the self-satisfied belief in the "rightness" of your own argument, close what is left of your mind completely to the arguments and - more importantly - feelings of others.