There goes the neighborhood

Can somebody please tell me what the hell you guys are thinking. Ok so you decided to remove player versus player from the help menu. WHY? Not only was it the most efficient means of identifying a person who is griefing you. But it was also the quickest and easiest means of filing an abuse report on a griefer.

When the hud was introduced a few major updates ago, I thought to myself what are they thinking? An undetectable attachment point ? Talk about making it easy to be a terrorist. But I found solace in the thought that the good guys would get something... some sort of tool later on down the road to help combat this huge security risk. I could not have been more wrong. Every update it seems that Linden Labs is making it easier to be a griefer.

Let’s see you made new accounts free. Thus opening the door to any bored joe to take a stroll thru Second Life and go postal for a lil laugh.

Now they’ve made it impossible to protect ourselves from a street-wise griefer by removing the only detection method available for a landowner to gain the name of the perpetrator without having to purchase a third party product. So now server lag will be increased exponentially due to everyone wearing detection devices as if attachment lag wasn’t bad enough already.

You made ban height 200 meters. So what? If we don’t know who to ban?

As I write this, It has already begun snipers are lining up their shots and choosing them carefully and picking off the unsuspecting innocents who now have no way to know who is shooting them. I have complaints from customers inside my shop who are being shot and have no idea who is doing it.

I don’t want to hear anything about server logs or liason assistance. I happen to know that one of the least favorite things liasons are forced to do is deal with griefers. Some times griefer activity is so high it can take them hours to have time to respond to your call. Not to mention their state of mind when they do show up. I for one feel sorry for them, talk about a stressful job. And server logs are not going to help you when you need it, only after the fact when the investigation is performed.

Let me ask a question.... when the investigation is complete, and abuse is found to be positive, are we then going to be notified of the griefer’s identity so that we may update our ban lists and protect ourselves? Something tells me the answer is more than likely a resounding "no". Either that or the abuse team’s job just got a lot harder, and more time consuming, surely that doesn't promote decent abuse investigations.

I’m wondering why we don’t just give out free weapons in the welcome area and all just become commandos. The mentors can rename their group the drill sargents, and Liaisons can be the Captains. Instead of blue jeans and white t-shirts we can get BDU's and a black hood.

Sighs, what happened to promoting community and socialization that was so important to LL in the beginning. So important in fact, they offered rewards for providing an outlet where it might be found. Those have been since stripped. Multiple rendering and physics updates on top of network architecture changes have crippled frame rates and stability when large numbers of avatars gather together to socialize.

The path I see us taking is that of the raiding parties and lone gunmen. Not Large community. Sad sad day it is.

I agree with you 100% The decisions being made now tend to make one wonder if LL is planning on selling Second Life to some big company for a lot of money then those involved go sit on a real beach for the rest of their lives. Perhaps that was the whole plan all along. Get a large user base no matter what the cost, intice some company with a lot of money to buy it (compaines like to see a larger user base that 'should' translate to large income posablities). There are a lot of cases of companies around the Net that where built to sell from the beginning. Makes one wonder.....

-DB

The main reason I heard was because the moment it came up, pretty much every one submitted it.

So if I bumped you accidently, i got ared, if you bumped into a build of mine with a tiny push, i got ARed again, but was anything done the needed an AR? No...that is why..they got 1000s a day of false claims that they had to look into to see if they were false.

So this way it forces you to really want to do it, not just click Ok, and then file it for really nothing.

Yes, I think some feature has to be added to so you can see who did it, but it should not be made easy else it will go back 1000s of false claims everyday again. I think we should talk about good idea to bring back the feature to tell us who hit us with a script, but with a way of metering it, so not even single time a scritped object hit you it comes up, a way that you can file it when you really have to, not the old way of just because and do it every time even though no reason to at all to file.

What if instead of the PvP alerting you, it just logs it silently for a few minutes? If the alert doesn't pop up, a victim won't see the message unless and until the victim chooses to report it. This reduces false positives because the PvP won't cause people to report it when the offence was merely an accident, and it assists users tryng to write an AR against a suspected attacker who has otherwise made him/her/itself difficult to report.

Rather than remove the feature, it would have been nice to still pull up a window with the name of the offending individual that did not directly report them with an automated abuse-spam. You could then copy and paste the name into the actual Abuse Report, and add the details.

Yes, an automatic popup isn't really needed.

There's only one reason for removing the capability completely, and that's because it takes time and costs money for LL to investigate abuse reports.

They should remove the bug reporting and the feature voting next. That will save them even more effort without affecting revenue.

Since this feature was removed, I've been plasted many sims away 4 times just today while working in the sandboxes. The last one was the Mauve sandbox. And I have no idea who it was that blasted me away. This is a great day for griefers. Now they can run amuk pushing who they want and they are going to get away with it.
Was this a big step back in the Second Life developement? I think so.
Take this for what its worth. About 2L.
Happy griefing everybody.

Babbage Linden has created a PVP shield that reports the name of the griefer. Crucial Armitage has it out by her shop in Gama (117,218,36)

Get that, it will tell you want you wanted to know, so close to same as before, and hopefully people won't wear it and report people that bump them in a laggy sim as that is not what it is for, it is for when you pushed out the sim, shot, etc, not a simple accident.

I've looked, can you please tell me where at in her shop the PVP shield is? I would very much like to see what kind of PVP abuse it reports. Just bullet attacks or will it work on scripted push too.
LOL, Found it. I must not have seen it when I teleported there. Sometimes graphics take a while to load. Some nice clothing in the store though. Ended up buying some. *smiles*
Its a collision reporting shield. We need a way in Secondlife to tell us who bounced us with a script and such. That don't do it. The shield I have does the same as that free reporter and stops the bullets too. We need something that does gives you the same information as the old one. Just let us know who has hit us with a script.
Right now its almost grief or be griefed. (Might have exaggerated that last a little bit...for now)

I've been hit by many different types of weapons, and there are some out there, that Can't be seen even in the pvp abuse report when it was there, So this shield really doe's nothing to solve this issue, what if they all got those type of weapons that can't be verfied when they shot someone, Then the shield doesn't detect who shot you, Even my sion can't detect everything, Sion is pretty cheap but does tell who shotting at you. most of the time anyways.

My point is that When did the lindens really do anything about the PVP abuse, We as Residents need to teach these Griefers we are not there Target pratice avatars, That we will not stand by and be considered weak and a target for them to play ball with, That we Will storm rade any of there base's and take out there toughis Leader, or there whole group, We will not stand around tolerating this abuse, Some of the residents have started saying screw this I'm tired of reporting, i'm tired of being shot up , time to Fight back. If anyof you are interested in Residental Self Defense Let me know, I'll hook you up with some decent freebie weapons that i've found and such, and some shields, we can stand together and handle this matter are selfs. We affter all Do pay to enjoy are selfs, and these grifers came to ruin it for us, let Us show them the power of team work and give them a taste of there own medicain.

If the lindens are not going to put pvp abuse back, then they need to implement some lsl that can give you the same information. That would give us the ability to at least know who is bouncing us with a script. We could better protect us then, right now, i was shopping for clothing and was knocked way out for no reason at all. I did get the stockings though.
Please lindens. Give us the tools to help us know who is scripting us.

Well I see everybody has a story about this PVP nonsense. So here is mine!

On Wednesday, Me and some friends were sitting in front of my shop located in a sort of "small shopping area". A very em.."ghettolicious" person was walking around, shopping. She got mad at somebody for clicking her gun, making it visible, or something stupid like that. So what happens? She Tps all her mafia cronies and they start orbiting everybody there, shoppers, store owners, anybody and everything. I TP down, only to be orbited 5453947802340 m in the sky again. I restart, tp back, orbited again.. Apparently they had something there that automatically orbited them. Everybody was complaining..I couldn't even LAND on my shop location, and I didn't say one word to these people.

So after doing everything and anything possible for them to stop.. I IMed LiveHelp. I get a response from a liason to file an Abuse Report. "wait, uh, there is no PVP...There are about 20 of them there, I have no idea who is doing it." I replied... The Liason then asked where this was happening...I gave them the (x,y,z) and Sim.. After 5 minutes, the Liason left the conference....uhm, okay, maybe they are coming over now. Well the Liason never showed up. Leaving us to solve this ourselves. We banned them, but they stayed near our shopping area, pushing us and shoppers. After about 5 hours of this BS, they finally all leave.

And we still have them coming back, and shooting us. It is 2 days later, yet they haven't been punished.

Sure anybody can say, "File an abuse report"...How are we supposed to prove or even KNOW who is causing trouble without PVP!?

This is pure crap.

Come invest in Second Life! Create a business, make *real* money!

Oh yea, and have your clients chased off and your investment made worthless because for some reason, munchkins are allowed to *shoot* people in shopping areas!

Let us turn of "push" and the like on our avatars *now*. Not someday, not when they get around to it...*NOW*!

Is there a feature proposal for this? I searched but didn't find anything.


BTW - I'm still new enough to think that 'voting matters'

I hope this will help people untill LL decides to fix the problem... It's a PVP logger script i been using for about 6 months.

http://wolfeedarkfang.furrynet.com/downloads/SL%20PVP%20LOGGER.txt

Well I agree that probably the reason that LL removed it was false reports, they still should have given us some kind of replacment. All the talk about a popup, I only got the pop up the first time I installed SL (or after a full uninsall/reinstall), then after that I had to pull it up via the PVP button that was in help menu. In fact I was at Froggy's concert a week ago and some greifer was shooting Froggy among others, I was also shot and orbited. We all were wondering who it was and Froggy mentioned the PVP menu and found out who using that. I then looked and sure enough the same person shot me. I had totally forgot about the PVP till then , but people do bump into me at times by accident and as I said no popup (which is why I forgot all about it). Strange how it was poping up all the time for some and not others.

And Yiffy thanks for the script. I hate to have scripted attachments on all the time unless I really needed, but I guess in this case it is. I guess LL just wants slower sims lol.

-DB

The reason it only poped up once was so that new playes could see that there WAS some kind of PvP abuse tracking and that if they needed it, though could get it again later.
Unfortunately, it didn't work as intended.

Hmm, I guess a bug had it poping up all the time for some and not others? Or do you mean people kept using it via the PVP menu selection (not a popup) all the time even though it wasn't needed? Regardless though I think they should have given us some sort of tool to detect who shot you (as an example) before removing the only such tool we had.

-DB

I mean that people didn't remember how to find it, and newbies would see it and click "REPORT" often, I assume. And then remember it was there and everytime someone bumped into them they'd go, "Oh! Abuse! Must report that!" because there was a popup window the first time.

Finally understand the meaning of the word... unfortunety... I was with my girlfirend in our home have a special moment when all of the sudden other chat was being entered with our names on it... and of course it was crazy talk that didn't make any sense... then we were frozen and were unable to move about... you could see the particles from the script they were using.. I was able to put their names on our ban list, but what a pain in the ---.
They hung around for about 10 mins while we were trying to figure out what and who was messin with us.

Later the same day we were in Hawaii hangin with freinds when sniper fire rang out from over the hill top... too far away to see who it was, and we tp'd out of there right away. Too bad our great friend, who is relativley new, decided to shoot back as retaliation. He was banned from Hawaii for trying to protect us.

So now my taste of sl has been tainted. This is the first time for me to have to deal with this since i signed up at the end of March. If this continues at this level I know I will not advise any of my friends to sign up for sl. Why wast your time getting shot at in sl, when rl will do.

I have less trouble in the last few days on my land but last week was horrendous.
The sandboxes are another issue....

Sandbox Island 11 to 12 SLT

Someone thought it would be cool to put a trampoline over the TP landing point, if you turn off flying you get stuck. So I tried to put a solid box over it so least to mitigate that some.

Creator Cory Linden 3/28/2006
Owner Sinnaji Okamoto 7/2/2006

For my efforts someone put a cage thing on me that I could not remove unless I teleported away.

Creator Arthus Sklar gone
Owner Cj Hall 6/27/2006

I came back to gather my work and go somewhere else but despite the numerous signs saying no guns a firefight broke out.

Too many to list...

Take note of the dates

Bravo my friend...
So well said! Nothing to add- Best Regards, Baccara

Seems to me what we also need is a part on the profile that lists all the public griefer convictions. Not to be lost on the police blotter for a pissy 7 day ban so that they can come back and offend again and again and again. Listed on their profile it will identify them to everyone in sl who the griefers are. Having been a club manager that has had to deal with the havoc and extra work on top of running a club that these morons caused after having it blown up and getting all the clients back to continue their good time.
THEY HAVE TO BE MADE TO BE AND SEEN PUBLICLY TO BE ACCOUNTABLE

After 3 strikes they are banned, simple as that AND IM BEING OVERLY GENEROUS WITH THAT AMOUNT, but we all get to see how many griefer strikes each person shows they get. This gives them the chance to redeem themselves if thats possible and also identifies them to the general community. Possibly add a tab to th e land or ban section to automatically ban people with 2 griefer strikes. IF THEY ARE SOCIALLY OSTRASCIZED OR BANNED THEN ITS THEIR OWN FAULT. and not as I have read where they BLAME THE PEOPLE THAT REPORT ON THEM for their ban.

I have played in games with Team Killers and I have no patience at all for them, they are cheaters and ruin the experience for their own personal quick thrill and the sniper mentality should be wiped out and you need to tell people that this is not acceptable in this arena. By listing their discressions publicly on their profile they can no longer hide . Once their listings are public the community will decide if they want them to be part of it or not or up to them if they want to be part of the community, its as simple as that.

If you want to set up a virtual community and be serious about it then LAW AND ORDER ARE YOUR PRIME RESPONSIBILITIES as long as it gets bigger then the issues for law and order will increase also, so that you need protocols that lock that sort of behaviour down. SL is not set up to be a war like game like SWG, you expect that sort of behaviour there, BUT NOT HERE!!!

Its a simple thing to ask and doesnt invade their personal rights, because once they start griefing they breake the terms and conditions for being here hence they loose their rights.

Demonizer Extraordinaire

Dont be a moron, this sort of behaviour only plays into their hands and escalates it.
its called THE ARMS RACE. im sure you have heard of that term. its why we all live in fear of being nuked in real life.

We dont need it in a theoretically non violent sim game.

What we do need is to be able to ban people from our land while offline.

Say for instance we get blown up or kicked off the game and we know who it was.
We just go to our web page in my account and pull down a ban name or ban all section on our particular land parcel and bingo, it will translate into the game. Its a simple th ing to code in but can be effective instead of going back intot h e game to a situation that may still not be resolved.

Demonizer Extraordinaire