Ban Limit too hight and too fast

I posted this also in the Second Life Answer forum, but want also to have comment from other users.

Why did linden labs made the ban limit change without any announcement before the upgrade?
Why was it introduced only just before the upgrade? (it wasn't in the 1.10.4.3 release notes and was added in the 1.10.4.4 release notes, release just before the opening).

This change make it quite impossible to fly around if there are parcel with restricted access, even if all the buildings are low. Remember that you can't fly much above 200 m and if the ground level is, suppose, 50m it's impossible to fly above a restricted parcel without some sort of veicle.

I'm really disappointed about this change, expecially considering the way it has been introduced.
May be this is a consequence of the griefer activity improvement after caused by the removal of credit card check, but the solution is even worse than the problem.

It seems to me that linden labs isn't thinking of consequences of their actions.
They make a change, it cause a problem (one that was ease to predict), they make another change trying to fix the problem and this cause another problem....

Please, take time to think about change. Ask the community to comment before making such changes.

This change made impossible to me to move around a parcel I own.
I think I'll abandon it (who will ever buy a parcel with so may "red lines" around it) and downgrade my account.

Raffaele Pirandello

I was pleased when I saw the height change. It is something that I wanted, but I did not expect it to happen.

I always thought 15m was too low. It did not stop people landing on your roof. It was worse for water based buildings. Because the height is measured from the sea bed, most of my boat was accessible.

I have to admit 200m is a bit excessive. I would be interested in hearing how this figure was arrived at, and why they suddenly decided to change it. Personally 50m, would cover the access for my needs.

The height isn't necessarily a bad thing, but they need to find a way for you, when flying around to explore, to avoid getting utterly lost and being flung somewhere or something when that happens. I've lost a vehicle in the same way, and luckily the land owner returned it to me.

If they're going to make it that much harder, I would suggest finding a way, rather than flinging people across the map when they hit a barrier while flying, to just cause them to stop, along with the current message. Because quite often I've hit barriers without even SEEING them. And the lovely effect of getting flung has crashed me more than once (well, in the sense of only able to turn in place but do nothing else).

So the height thing doesn't bother me as long as they figure out how to fix the problem of you and your vehicle getting flung in different directions. I;m sure the land owners would appreciate that fix too so they don't suddenly find a plane in their living room.

You are right, 15m was too low, but between 200m and 15m there is plenty of possibility.

If my higthest object is at 50m why ban people up to 200m?

And why make this change in such a silent way?

This change is really hurting me cause I have a land in an area with many small parcel. If you try to fly around you continues to crash with those red bands.

The only way to move, even to really close posittion, is via ptp teleports



How true!

But why the raised the ban limit BEFORE asking theirself "what about people that want just to fly around and explore?".

I'm really disappointed about this thing

Yes, this is the issue - I used to live in an area like that and I remember what it was like. The ban lines and security systems were bad enough in the old days, but at least you could fly over them and you were usually over a parcel before the security system kicked in.

I am really disappointed too. What's the point of a world if you can't move around in it?

Note: in my experience, if a land-owner deletes an object on their land that is no-copy and not owned by them, it is returned instead.

The new ban line height is ridiculous, I don't think someone really thought it through
I liked going for hot air balloon rides, cruising at a nice 100m above ground, enough that I don't get too much lag, don't worry about many obstacles and can still see the landscape beneath me and interesting builds I might like to explore.

But now I HAVE to fly at 200m or higher where I can't see anything at all? Either put the access limit down to proper distance that isn't ill-conceived or remove the ability for anything to fly =/

AR report anyone with a flinging security script. They can change it to set it so flyers can get through before being sent cross country.

I made a feature proposal to separate "restricted access" and "ban" limit, and to restore the first one to the old value.

Anyone interested can vote this feature here: http://secondlife.com/vote/index.php?get_id=1520

I think the real issue here is that "access restriction" and "explicit ban" have to be separated.

If you, individually, are explicitly banned from a parcel, no, you should not be able to fly over it. As in, if you are one of the 50 on the ban list.

"Access restricted" however, is a completely different argument, and I'm not arguing for or against that.

Too high.

If people on all sides of my plot put their privacy fences on the only way I'll be able to fly out of there will be with a jetpack. The fence is MUCH too high.

I visit my neighbors on occasion and much prefer walking or flying the short distances. Not TPing.

It's only one immediate neighbor who has the fence up, but I can imagine other people who have to deal with more fences.

I've nonetheless swung my house to face the other way.

If the fences get out of hand it will be pointless to fly.

So much for just flying around and seeing what others have created. Is totally impossible now. I repeatedly got literally tangled in webs of ban lines. At 300m, no less. Not that you can see anything from that high anyway

That was always one of my favorite things to do when I was bored and nothing was going on. Gonna be hard to get used to.

Sam

Don't worry Sam, I'm not giving up on this one, and neither are a lot of people.

I'm bug-reporting it every time it happens.

Five times in ten minutes, including one time where I was thrown further than I've even been tossed by C4 going from my own parcel to an adjacent friend's build!

Hey Raf good idea. I added a feature vote too but took me awhile to write it so yours got added immediately prior to mine. . Wasnt trying to steal votes. You're a bit vague on the _specifics_ of what you would like to see in its place. The post i created goes into a bit more detail so you might want to take a look there too. Not posting a link (easy to find) as im not trying to 'steal' your POV.

Re: vehicular exploration and similar concerns, please see my post here:

/108/83/115258/14.html#post1104301

This is freaking rediculous.

My lot is surrounded by paranoid land owners who only allow themselves and a select group of friends on their lot. Which means on my land all I see is NO ENTRY all the way around.

Thats OK, I have a Sky house 80m up (in shouting and scanning range of my store below me). That is high enough to afford a great view. Among the things I do is design planes that I launch from my bay.

So I go in to my sky house and instead of a view I'm surrounded by "NO ENTRY" walls and I cant even launch a ship.

Whoever came up with idea of raising the limit to 200: IDIOTIC especially considering this:

THE AVATAR FLIGHT LIMIT IS 75 METERS!!! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO FLY ANYWHERE WITHOUT A SPECIAL ATTACHMENT THUS COMPLETELY KILLING SECOND LIFE NAVIGATION AND EXPLORATION!!!!

well its so wrong to not desire some peoples over your land?

big letters arent an argument

i used to have written a script that tp home peoples in my ban list, no matter how high they could go

Well to answer simply you are wrong.

More detailed answer would be that the HOVER height at any point on the grid is equal to ground height + 50 meters. Thats just the height you drift down to slowly if you let go of all keys. Beyond that the flight limit is 215m meters roughly. Not 75. If you are gonna rant with pointless "I'm a Teen" text font idiocy at least rant using accurate data. At least then you would only express yourself as immature. Currently you express yourself as ignorant and immature. At least studying the facts will remove one of those titles.

It is wrong for several reasons, the rediculously high limit effectively destroys exploration, one of the hallmark activities that SL was designed for in the first place.

If we can't fly from place to place, why even bother with continents?

Exploration requires a cruising altitude low enough to be able to see what you are flying over. This is why avatar flight is limited to 75 meters in the first place. Even with basic script assistance, the maximum flight is around 250 meters.

What setting the limit to 200 meters does is force people who enjoy flying from place to place (remember when we were REQUIRED to fly?) to fly above the clouds, losing all sense of geography.

What making the limit so high effectively does is create a new griefing tool. I currently own the beach and my neighbor built his house in an overlook fashion so he does not have to look at my lot and still get a great view. Now I can ban my neighbor and not only destroy access to the beach, but he gets a big 200m tower saying NO ENTRY covering his view.


I understand the whole keep the griefer's out thinking, but why is it so bloody important to protect your property from casual travelers? People that build something cool on their land, then keep everybody out seem to miss the whole point of social online games in my opinion. If you really want to build stuff and not let anyone see, you can buy Bryce 5.5 for the price of a year in SL, and then you can build all the 3D worlds you want that no one will ever see.


Do you sell it? Good security scripts are worth a fortune.

Well, they were worth a fortune, now they are worthless.

Has anyone even considered the economic ramifications of this?

A change this significant can have HUGE economic reprocussions. Land values can change dramatically based on access, vehicles could stop selling as PTP teleporting becomes the only form of reliable transport.


Sometimes small letters aren't either.


Apparently you have not flown before, the only way to maintain 215 is to constantly hold the page up key. Otherwise you drift down.

Hey big letters gets attention.

i was sort of happy with it But now that its here... i see how annoying it is..


we need to have the no entry locations at the Objects that are rezzed
Like if you have a skybox at 600 high that the No Entry Location goes around that and not a Tower high of No Entry Signs

And that is what a FLIGHT limit is. You said flight ceiling of 75meters without a script. False. You only need scripts for above 215m. The HOVER ceiling is 50m above a given locations ground height. Up to that distance you can maintain altitude. 50m is not a flight limit. 75m is not 'any' limit.

Posted this is another thread:



Allows for private areas, and assuming most people aren't idiots with it then it allows for a good balance over proper protection and flier-friendliness.

When I saw the news, my first thought was "how to set the distance?"

I really only need ground+80m to prevent mouse look from reaching the ground.

My bigger problem is dealing with ajasent propertys since the griefers can still stand in the next parcel and look into my place.

They can also use WarpPos to drop 1000's of big boxes anywhere in a sim regraurdless of if it's buildable or not.

---
Of course, you can also use WarpPos and Sit offset to go anywhere regaurdless of the ban lines.

It would take some script though.
1. When sat on your plane would use WarpPos to jump up 500m
2. The vector rotation Sit offset would then place you 500m downwards.
3. The object would then change to physical so you can move.
4. You might need to use a scripted camera since sit offsets of that magnitue mess up mouselook, but that may just be due to the jump move.

I think this was simply a "Easy" thing for them to change.

Edit: The above script idea does not work.
It still sees your avitar as inside the ban area.