Adult changes being gamed

As a resident that has taken the adult changes seriously and done all I can to comply with them I find the present situation in SL intolerable. I refer to those people that know they changes are in place, yet are still operating an adult business in a mature area.

I have taken the time to put my sim in order BEFORE the changes and everyone else has had equal opportunity. Yet I find my compeition are operating clubs, malls etc in a mature sim and that most definately have adult content. In my opinion they are holding off until FORCED to make the changes as they know damn well they will attract extra custom compared to those of us that have made the changes.

Abuse reporting these residents seems to make no difference. So, it would seem that the adult changes are really a joke, a LOT of people have ignored them and are operating how they were with impugnity.

Those that us that have made the changes and have complied with the new rulings are basically being penalised by loss of business to those that haven't made the changes.

Linden Labs I urge you to put things in order fast before those that are complying the adult changes start to consider that the only way we can compete with those that aren't complying is to do as they do.

I checked out 10 of the biggest adult business I know in secondlife, 9 of them are still operating in a mature area

___

Ivana Pawlowski

Yup, more proof that LL don't give a flying...

I know a place where there is a weekly party including pole dancers and it is PG. I have reported this many times, yet they are sure to be there this Saturday as usual. 50% of the people there are bots too, something else LL claim to be working towards combating.


In LLs world it works like this: there are new mugs joining all of the time who are amazed by everything, so if they continue to devolve things and ignore complaints, older residents might get fed up and leave, but there are plenty of new mugs to take money from. This is simple corporate narrow minded thinking and the bottom line is always going to be the new money coming in...

AR or it didn't happen. (^_^)y

With a small overworked enforcement team that relies pretty much on bulk ARs what are the chances of it being noticed.

There is just 1 adult enforcement on the police blotter. It seems to me there are other priorities.

It's far worse than you think Ivana. If you recall the early LL rhetoric wrt the new adult content guideline, their Prime consideration was to ensure that users had "more control over their experience". That is, they would not accidentally stumble across adult content and be shocked and horrified.

This was supported by the repeated mantra chanted by LL that this was what the majority of residents wanted (after all only 4% of SL land contained any adult content at all, so no big deal). Thus the INTENT of the new rules supported the LETTER of the law about adult content as summarized on the SL website on the 'Maturity ratings: an overview' page.

However, this has all changed. LL has publicly reversed this position. At a meeting with Blondin Linden last week he stated "[2009/09/18 11:42] Blondin Linden: Advertising or hosting adult content needs to be on Adult Land, whether here in ZIndra or on a Private region flagged Adult. Content like a sex bed or sex animations, nude skins, bdsm silks or furs, toys of the such can all be SOLD on Mature as long as they arent using Adult key words in the ads/classifieds/parcel descriptions" (!)

That is, on my MATURE land I could have a BDSM animation sex bench for SALE with a sign that states "DO IT to her 39 different ways.... etc", as long as it is not advertised (it's a given that it should also not contain banned keywords). This would be completely in keeping with his above statement since this scenario does not need to include "Adult key words in the ads/classifieds/parcel descriptions".

Again, this not only violates the LETTER of the law, as this is clearly "Expressly sexually themed content", as defined by LL, but the INTENT as well, because any sensitive soul wandering about SL could stumble across it and be traumatized.

Why they did this probably has something to do with sheer number of Mature sims that still have adult content on them, making enforcement not only difficult, but unprofitable as pissed off residents just leave SL, as so many others have already done. It might also have something to do with push back from some of the larger Adult companies still operating on Mature rated land (eg - the ones you visited).

Seriously, everyone in Zindra feels the same way as you do. I am not only re-evaluating my business model, but my existence in SL.

Actually... That's the way it was stated from the beginning... Enforcement will be based primarily on what shows up in search. (o.o)

At least... That's how ~I~ remember it. (O.o)

Where's that bloody blog link? I done lost it. (>_<

Actually, the way it was stated from the beginning was as I mentioned above - to give users control over their inworld experience. IOW, if someone does Not want to be exposed to Adult content it would be very simple for them - Stay Away From ADULT rated sims (and do not search for Adult content). Furthermore, roaming about PG and Mature sims would Guarantee the integrity of their (non-adult) experience was maintained by ensuring that they would not come Face-to-Face with adult content on those sims.

If enforcement were only based on Search, then all Ivana, I, and hundreds of others would have had to do was uncheck a few "Show in search" boxes for some objects, and changed the names and descriptions in a few others, and we could have stayed on our Mature sims (or not have had to change the rating).

I understood the rules that there can be no adult content on a parcel that is advertised in any way, be that as a classified advert, land shown in search or indeed using the show in search check box on an adult item. Further that you cannot advertise or link to adult content from a mature or pg parcel.

The adult businesses in SL seem to have split into 3 camps.

1) People like DJ and myself that have taken time to comply with the new rulings both to the letter and in spirit.

2) People that have split parcels containing adult content off of their land, unlisted them and then put a whole teleport / advertising system in place to sighpost them from a mature plot that is still listed.

3) People that have changed their adverts only but left all adult content in place.

From what I can see, people that have done number 3 are in the majority. In terms of percentages with major adult businesses in SL I would say 1=10%, 2=25%, 3=65%

That was the stated goal. The fact that they consistently said that you could sell sexual items as long as they were not advertised as such made many people question the authenticity of this stated goal.

You're absolutely right, you didn't have to move to Zindra, you could have kept your Mature land.

So... I CAN SELL a picture of extreme sexual bondage as long as I don't advertise it, but I CAN'T PUT the same picture as a decoration (i.e. not for sale) on the wall right next to the one that is for sale... ?

I'm afraid I missed that memo. And how does that support the stated goal?

No, you can do that. You just can't advertise it. Oh, and, word of mouth counts as advertising, but officially they only look at search and really blatant stuff.

I assume anything documenting the reasoning is under NDA to protect our sanity.

Ok, aside from the advirtised / non-advertised rule, one would assume that it's not ok to basically operate a brothel or a public sex area / dungeon on a mature plot of land that is advertised in search. That would be someone's conduct in a public place not being fitting for a mature sim.

ROTFL, Argent... waaaaaaay too late, my sanity has been pretty much spent by now. I think LL has an NDA on reality, secondary though it may be.

Like everyone else on Zindra I'm dealing with a 60-70% decline in traffic (minimum) since the move.

BTW, "LL reasoning" is an oxymoron.



... so I can not only SELL adult content, but I can PLACE it all over my land, as long as I don't advertise it?

And so long as it's "indoors".

Don't start on about camming or things rezzing in funny orders. Just... don't.

And... let's see. A nude beach is OK, even outside, so long as nobody has an erection.

But if you have a party or even something like a wedding that's advertised, and some of the guests use your poseballs, you could be in trouble.

There is logic there, once you look at enough cases. I started a wiki page to document those cases, and then people expressed concern about it being on LL's servers, so Lord set up his slapt wiki and copied it over there.

The GOAL was: Predictable Experience. (^_^)

The RULE was: Items and services in search. (^_^)

This is how I heard it from the beginning. (^_^)y

I am aware of the private/public/indoor/outdoor distinctions, and I am not trying to be difficult, but the 'logic' still escapes me, because the mall is outdoors and public. Yet I can't have exactly the same picture on the wall as a decoration as I have for sale right next to it (assuming neither is advertised).

And I can be on a public beach with my naked girl, as long as she is not kneeling?

Then you can't display the picture, you have to sell it sight unseen in a box.

But why would I "have to sell it sight unseen in a box" if it didn't contain any adult keywords and was not listed in ads/classifieds/parcel descriptions?

After all, hasn't one side of the argument in this thread been that it was OK to SELL adult content items as long as they weren't Advertised (when I asked if could sell such an item you said above that "No, you can do that. You just can't advertise it." and blondin said "...can all be SOLD on Mature as long as they arent using Adult key words in the ads/classifieds/parcel descriptions".

I'm getting confused. Is it that there are certain adult content items that can be sold on Mature sims, while others can not be sold? If so, where is the list of acceptable adult content items?

Because of the "public" vs "private" bit. There's a rule that sexually explicit and extremely violent content has to be private, and setting it for sale doesn't change that. Put it in a box or put it inside a "back room". You know, like the one behind the beaded curtain at the video store they didn't let you through when you were a kid (or if you're not old enough for that to have been common when you were a kid, when I was in college and still being carded... they didn't have video stores when I was a kid).

He's talking about things like sex beds that are innocuous when they're just sitting there. I'm not sure he even thought about goods that are erotically ... uh ... relevant just sitting there.

You want a list. You want SPECIFICS? That's so CUTE! Most of us got over that even before the FIRST set of threads about this got locked.

Remember, we don't even get to see the list of keywords.

You gotta understand, I'm not in the game, I don't HAVE adult content (for sale or otherwise) anywhere on my land. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I'm just letting you in on what Blondin's been telling us for the past six months and change.

Regardless of the what we have been told, the actual rules are in black and white on the wiki and they state "The Adult designation applies to Second Life® Regions that host conduct or display content that is sexually explicit or intensely violent, or depicts illicit drug use" and that the whole advertising thing is in addition to that.

it also explicitly states that "Dance clubs that feature "burlesque" acts can also generally reside in Mature Regions so long as they don't promote sexual conduct, such as through pose balls (whether in "backrooms" or more visible spaces)". So no back rooms with sex toys etc.

The knowledge base only says that regions that advertise or promote such content need to be rated "adult", and the advertising rules are based on how LL interprets advertise and promote.

The bottom line is the whole thing is a PR exercise. Meta Linden said that... it's all about convincing institutional customers that SL isn't all about the porn.

I know what they "said" but the rules that have materialised on the knowledgebase make no such distinction. The AR entry is for inappropriate content or conduct in a mature region (not an advertised one). They also state that the presence of sexual poseballs counts as promoting sexual conduct. These are the rules we were told to comply with in e-mails from Linden Labs, and it makes no mention of them just being enforced in advertised areas, they are completely different to what has been "said":

https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6010

What part of "Any Region must be designated Adult and therefore require account verification, if it advertises or publicly promotes the following" do you not understand?

as for lindens being serious about adult content i totally agree a whole bunch of us did the right thing and complied while some of our protected opposition continued to operate in mature sims.my complaints via the ticket system go unanswered and now i find myself under threat of suspension because i had some campers on my land.i see adult buisnesses with bots and all sorts of visitor cheats every day and most of these are the same ones who hung in on mature sims to the last second.come on linden labs crack down on all or leave us small players alone.ENFORCE THE ADULT CONTENT AND ENFORCE THE LAWS ON CAMPERS AND BOTS AND ALL THE OTHER METHODS USED FOR CHEATING VIS COUNTS SO WE ALL PLAY ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD

Yes, advertises OR publically promotes. Later it states that the presence of sexual poses on the plot even in a back room is not permitted on a mature sim as it PROMOTES sexual conduct. Advertising means you classifieds etc, promotes means anything that may encourage people to act in that manner as per the example given.

The meaning is quite clear, if you have sexual content publically available you must be adult. If you are mature you may not use sexual terms to advertise. They are 2 separate things but if your read the document properly both are covered. So when I say there is no such distnction, I mean with adult content being exempt on a plot if it's not advertised.

Basically the document is badly written and may not be what they intend it to mean. But as of the moment it's the rules they require us to adhere to there in black and white. People read it and see what they EXPECT to see having follwed the discussions over the months and weeks before the changes. I guarantee, it doesn't say what we were told.

I followed the dicsussions too so I was kinda expecting it to be how you say Argent. So I was dismayed when I got a warning e-mail from LL saying I was required to do rather more. However it would seem that's what I was required to comply with. I even raised tickets in appeal to basically get told that's what I had to do. I did what I was required to do and complied. Others that have had the same warnings choose to ignore them.