Losing no copy items when dropping them into a prim
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Keiki Lemieux
I make HUDDLES
Join date: 8 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,490
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09-16-2006 15:50
About once a month or so I get a customer with the following problem: They bought one of my HUDs and when transferring their animations from another gadget, they lose them. They are no longer in their inventory. They aren't in the orginal. They aren't in my HUD.
It sounds like they always manage to drag the animations into their inventory ok. They always confirm that they saw the animations in their inventory. It also sounds like they selected the whole folder or a large group of animations and dropped them into HUD en masse. At that point, the new animations never showed up in the device, but disappeared from their inventory.
Have other people run into this problem? And is there a consistent way to reproduce it? I haven't been able to.
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Lex Neva
wears dorky glasses
Join date: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,361
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09-17-2006 12:10
A few possibilities come to mind: Did they try relogging? Did they maybe miss and drop the animations into the floor?
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Keiki Lemieux
I make HUDDLES
Join date: 8 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,490
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09-17-2006 14:16
From: Lex Neva A few possibilities come to mind: Did they try relogging? Did they maybe miss and drop the animations into the floor? I eliminated both of these possibilities when I helped them.
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polysilox Apogee
Registered User
Join date: 16 May 2006
Posts: 78
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Me too. 
09-18-2006 08:51
I have lost some no copy pictures droping them into my own single prim picture cyclers. I went to change the script to not display title, recompiled, and the pictures dissapered.
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Keiki Lemieux
I make HUDDLES
Join date: 8 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,490
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09-18-2006 08:53
From: polysilox Apogee I have lost some no copy pictures droping them into my own single prim picture cyclers. I went to change the script to not display title, recompiled, and the pictures dissapered. And do you still have that object? Did you open it during another session to make sure the pics aren't there?
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polysilox Apogee
Registered User
Join date: 16 May 2006
Posts: 78
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09-18-2006 08:58
Thanks I will check and let you know.
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polysilox Apogee
Registered User
Join date: 16 May 2006
Posts: 78
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09-18-2006 09:03
Just checked, nope not there, ceased to be entirely.
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Keiki Lemieux
I make HUDDLES
Join date: 8 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,490
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09-18-2006 09:44
This can be a very painful bug. They transfer their animations in bulk into a device and lose them all. It can be thousands of Lindens down the drain.
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Lex Neva
wears dorky glasses
Join date: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,361
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09-18-2006 10:45
From: Keiki Lemieux I eliminated both of these possibilities when I helped them. Uh oh :/ Have you been able to reproduce it at all, or is it random?
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Keiki Lemieux
I make HUDDLES
Join date: 8 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,490
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09-18-2006 11:13
From: Lex Neva Uh oh :/ Have you been able to reproduce it at all, or is it random? Very infrequent. I get maybe 1 report per hundred customers or so and it's happened once with a ZHAO that I know of. And no, I cannot reproduce it.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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09-18-2006 14:37
I've lost some Abranimations animations this way.
I really wish animation creators would provide both "copy/no trans" and "no copy/trans" versions. Things like AO animations really should be copyable, so you can use them in multiple avatars.
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Keiki Lemieux
I make HUDDLES
Join date: 8 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,490
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09-18-2006 23:35
Ok, this happened again to someone tonight. What's worse is she rebought the animations, reloaded it and it happened a SECOND time, making just some random player error less likely.
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Kokoro Fasching
Pixie Dust and Sugar
Join date: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 949
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09-19-2006 10:16
The problem is a combination of packet loss, 'lag' or slow sim, and the asset server being under load.
It is difficult to reproduce, but what happens is that you copy the items, and then if you take the item before verifing (and some times you have to wait up to 5 minutes for it to show) that the items are in the prim, the items will 'vanish'. The only sure way I have seen to insure the items make it there is that if you are having packet loss, slow sim, and slow asset server is to leave the item out, log off, clear cache, and re-log. This has worked for me 100% of the time.
I agree that animations should be copy/no trans, or at least have the option to purchase them that way.
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Johan Durant
Registered User
Join date: 7 Aug 2006
Posts: 1,657
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09-20-2006 13:35
Ouch, this is a really annoying problem. And when I read your explanation, I recognized the problem, I've just never experienced it with animations specifically; it happens to me all the time when I'm getting stuff I purchased out of the box (of course, in that case the items aren't lost and I can just try again.)
This could be an issue for my stuff for sure, since I am deliberately expecting people will put my animations into another animation controller. Thing is, transfer permissions are pretty important for my items because they are commonly purchased for gifts.
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eltee Statosky
Luskie
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 1,258
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09-20-2006 14:16
you REAAAAAAAAAALY kinda take things into your own hands, risk wise, if you edit *ATTACHED* attachments, sl has never ever done that well... We always reccomend people drop attachments on the GROUND, edit them there, and then pick them back up an reattach them... much much more solid and less buggy
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Joseph Worthington
The Suntan Mega-Man
Join date: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 563
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09-20-2006 14:21
I just rezzed my AO to the floor a few minutes ago to add an animation to it...and sure enough it vanished. Poof. Just like that. Not extremely PO'ed about it...but certainly annoyed. And I don't want to IM the creator, asking for a free copy because truly this isn't his fault and he shouldn't be held accountable...but now I'm out Lindens and have litte other choice.
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eltee Statosky
Luskie
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 1,258
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09-20-2006 14:44
what its sounding alot like is that things should probably be moved from nocopy + transfer to copy + notransfer...
If things are being lost or corrupted so much, it may be alot less hastle on creators to sell that way. You need to have a permission badge out for your vendor so people know they can't transfer them later, but by in large it lets you do two things
1) ALWAYS replace anything for any customer, since its copy ok, they could have jus copied it themselves anyway
2) allows people to drag FROM inventory to anything they own without LOOSING the copy in inventory.
we in Luskwood Creatures have been selling attachment based avatars for 2+ years now and we've really found that to work by far better than nocopy + transfer, everything else is jus too easy to loose, and you always have to 'worry' about giving replacements out
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Johan Durant
Registered User
Join date: 7 Aug 2006
Posts: 1,657
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09-20-2006 15:04
I just can't get around the fact that I started with copy/no-transfer, and literally within two days I was getting requests to switch to no-copy/transfer. I guess it's different for you guys, but my customers routinely purchase multiple copies at a time to have extras to give to their friends. Also... From: eltee Statosky you always have to 'worry' about giving replacements out I assume you have a way of tracking who your customers are, because otherwise you'd be worrying about that anyway.
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Michi Lumin
Sharp and Pointy
Join date: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,793
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09-20-2006 15:16
From: Johan Durant I assume you have a way of tracking who your customers are, because otherwise you'd be worrying about that anyway. Yes, we do. Most vendor systems do as well, as does SLExchange and SLBoutique. Not keeping records of your sales can lead to customer service nightmares down the line.
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eltee Statosky
Luskie
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 1,258
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09-20-2006 15:35
From: Johan Durant I just can't get around the fact that I started with copy/no-transfer, and literally within two days I was getting requests to switch to no-copy/transfer. I guess it's different for you guys, but my customers routinely purchase multiple copies at a time to have extras to give to their friends. Also... I assume you have a way of tracking who your customers are, because otherwise you'd be worrying about that anyway. I suppose expectations can vary, selling no transfer items without BIG WARNING STICKERS on the vendors saying that, can lead to problems, but with those stickers, we haven had much trouble with it, people really appreciate the fact we can send replacements, no questions asked, and that they can make lots of outfits that have them etc
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Johan Durant
Registered User
Join date: 7 Aug 2006
Posts: 1,657
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09-20-2006 22:05
From: Michi Lumin Yes, we do. Most vendor systems do as well, as does SLExchange and SLBoutique. Not keeping records of your sales can lead to customer service nightmares down the line. Y'know, I only just today realized there were such things as "vendor systems." About ten minutes before reading this post I bought JEVN to setup tomorrow. Now I kinda feel bad though that I won't have any records of my sales up until now.
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Keiki Lemieux
I make HUDDLES
Join date: 8 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,490
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09-21-2006 01:10
From: eltee Statosky you REAAAAAAAAAALY kinda take things into your own hands, risk wise, if you edit *ATTACHED* attachments, sl has never ever done that well... We always reccomend people drop attachments on the GROUND, edit them there, and then pick them back up an reattach them... much much more solid and less buggy You can't move no copy animations into an attached attachment. This bug is happening when the attachment is on the ground.
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Johan Durant
Registered User
Join date: 7 Aug 2006
Posts: 1,657
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09-21-2006 14:10
Okay, I just saw something that would resolve the gift issue for me, although I don't think it is correct. Someone just told me that if I put the animations I'm selling into a box and make the box transferable, then the box can be given as a gift even though the animations are no-transfer. While I am going to test this myself to see for sure, does anyone know if that is correct?
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Draco18s Majestic
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2,744
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09-21-2006 14:23
I don't think so.
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eltee Statosky
Luskie
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 1,258
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09-21-2006 14:31
eeeh... sorta.... kinda... it can be done but don't do it ever because you open yerself up to bad permission exploitation etc kinda... most long term vendors have already run across exactly why by accident but yah jus, no, dont do that
not an actual exploit, it jus doesn often work the way people think it is gonna work, an they get nailed by it.
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