Why age verify in-world?

I don't see how that can be an issue if the form is worded properly. The only thing requested to be verified should be the age and age alone, with no other identifying information.

As it is set up now any intelligent kid can use parents info, so there would be no more assurance whatsover that everyone is 18+, as there is now....and now you've had to give personal information for the data banks that is not necessary.

Only way to insure a person is 18 or over, is in person, face to face, with driver's license or other info in hand.

Basically it is just witnessing a very brief document and certifying that a person's ID says 18 or older. This can be independant of any other personal info and would be far more effective then the other method which will have no effect on really solving the age verification problem, other then fill up a database of personal info no one really wants to do.

Give residents 3 months or so to send in their notarized age verification. People who care about SL will go to the trouble of taking a generic age verification form they printed off the website, to a notary. Even a person's name would not need to be included on the form, just a "To Whom it may Concern" "This person presenting this form to me, showed me official, picture ID, which states says he/she is 18 or older." Signed Notary X (Agrestic, USA etc.) Stamped and sealed and returned to LL with another form to assign to avatar x,y,z.

It would be tough for kids to trick parents into doing this for them.

If it's not some form of in-person verification, it will just be an exercise in futility with the end result of people protesting the giving out personal info and no more assurance of kids not being in SL then there is now.

The bottom line is, LL has signed a CONTRACT with this company, and you can't duck out of a contract, without losing a lot of money in the process.

It doesn't matter if LL has realized this is an asinine mistake on their part or not, they signed a contract with Aristotle, and we are all stuck with LL's poor judgment. We can bitch all day long, and it's not going to do a damned bit of good. The contract was signed months ago. It's a done deal. No amount of getting smart now will change that fact.

It is, however, proof that LL isn't as smart as they would like to think. Now they have to live with the fact that they look like a bunch of guppies for falling for Aristotles sales pitch.

And we have to live with it as best we can. I will not give Aristotle my personal info. Period. They are crooks as far as I am concerned.

Aristotle will let our info out of the bag, and all hell is going to break loose. Meantime, LL, get all those minors signed up as adults while you can. I bet most folks who do sign up will be minors. Most adults have enough sense not to let their personal info out to a dodgy company. A kid will have no qualms about handing out the 'rents info, though.

I didn't think it was a big deal until I read Linden's post on this:



My full real life name? Are you kidding? I've never let anyone I interact with online know that.

Linden's answer would be: "Well, you don't have to verify your name or the rest. In fact, just verifying you're over 18 allows you access to everything, and you don't even have to verify that to have access to the vast majority of the grid."

My response is: "When given the 'opportunity' to verify one's name and a fair number of people do, it becomes much harder for many to trust someone who refuses to do so."

This will ruin SL unless the vast, vast majority of people refuse to verify beyond that they're 18+ and MAYBE their gender. Those are the only two things I'd consider verifying, and ideally people will refuse to verify even gender, as people who want to play the opposite shouldn't be effectively prevented from doing so. It's not rl! But if people distrust my gender without my verifying it, I guess I'll do it.

The rest, no way. I don't disclose location easily at all, and have never intentionally given someone online my real life full name. The thing is, will others' willingness to disclose such make those of us who refuse seem untrustworthy? It might, and it will ruin SL if it does.

Of course, as long as most people refuse to verify beyond that they are 18+, it won't be a significant deal. But will people?

No - Im not saying they arent doing their job.

Im saying their Job in my state isnt what you think it is.

They ONLY notarize signatures. Thats it. Finito. They have NO responsibility for the content of any document. They only notarize signatures. The Notary explained this to me when I was trying to set up a private loan a few years back.

To do what you have described where I live, I would need a lawyer.

Many of the concerns such as privacy issues, the fact that passport/driving license/SSN numbers do not verify identity it is the photo id on these which do, that in many countries the databases needed to verify the number are not made available to private companies, were raised when LL first announced this system - this was at a time when it was being claimed that the contract had yet to be signed.

LL could probably break the contract on the basis of it not being fit for purpose - it is far more likely a minor will risk falsely verifying by entering their parents date of birth, than by making an unauthorised transaction on their parents credit card!

Matthew

I've been resisting the urge to fully dissect Robin's blog.

It displays a complete lack of understanding of how online identities or to be more accurate online personas work. Whilst some avatars are merely extenions of someones real self into a virtual world, many (even if they started out as this) adopt their own pseudo-identity/persona independent of their owner (a trait often observed by authors and actors) - and this is before you take the RPer into consideration.

It displays a complete lack of understanding of what constitutes trust - trust is based on a history of past interactions plus others recommendations (and then involves a complex judgement based on context, risk, etc.) - you need some way of ensuring that the avatar *is* the one recommended or *is* the one you have had past interactions with but the uniqueness of SL names does that.

The quote from AngelaM is the most worrying part of the blog "This will help establish trust by removing a layer of anonymity for those they interact with. It’s much easier to trust someone who puts their name behind their words and actions."

Indeed it *is* easier to trust someone who reveals a name - every conman in the world knows this. However, some who does reveal this information *is not* however necessarily more trustworthy. The anonymity in SL is actually a good thing - in that it makes people more wary. What Robin is in effect saying here is that removing anonymity will make people more trusting not more trustworthy.

The IDV will give people in SL a false sense of security as regards trust - this is *not* a good thing. We've already seen that in much of Europe the information Integrity can verify is less than that required to get payment on record status, so the IDV will also give people in SL a false sense of security as regards age! This could be very dangerous thin ice for LL to be skating on!

Matthew

I haven't tried to verify yet (I don't know where to go or what to do or even if it's open to my class of resident), but when it comes time I'm going to hit up the SSN death list and register as Elvis, or Nixon, or JFK.

Just to completely F*** the system and show how useless it is.

If I can't use someone who's dead I'll make up details and do without a SSN, such as registering as my great-grandfather (or if that doesn't work because he's dead, then just my grandfather).

They should stop banging the trust drum right now because as you point out, payment info on record is a more trustworthy tag than this verification system. It's much easier to defaud the verification system than it is the payment info tag.

LL are indeed playing a very dangerous game by insinuating that this makes an AV more worthy of trust.

If this is true about notaries in your state, then there must be another verfification method for such a thing.

I suspect that if you check again, you will find that because of Identity theft issues, notaries can do more then they used to.

I dont think so, but its besides the larger point.

Very few people will be willing to go to a notary to verify their age in SL. They will just go somewhere else for the things they can no longer do in SL.

I do so much business as Ace Albion I think I can consider it a legal alias.

Hi, I'm Ace!

Not so. I'm thinking that I will go to a Notary, show picture ID (and wrinkles, heh), and ask to have a written document stating that Xxxx Xxxx, aka Puck Rickenbacker on SL, is XX age, and then mailing it to LL. This makes so much sense, that I fully expect LL will refuse to accept it. Hell, I'd be happy to have my lawyer do the statement for me. But no way in hell I'm dealing with Airstotle. I may be dense, but I ain't stoopid.

I dont think many people will follow your reasoning.

They just wont Verify AT ALL.

and the stuff in SL they cant do becuase of it , they will get elsewhere on the net.

In a nutshell.. laws aren't for law abiding citizens.. they are for those that break laws, so they can be charged with something that will stick.....


On 99% of websites I have visited, clicking a choice 'Yes I am over 18, No I am not over 18, or I don't know' is perfectly acceptable over the internet. Only the first choice will get you into anything considered 'undesirable' to those classed as minors.... Hands up all those that waited until they were 'legal age' to smoke, drink, have sex, drive a vehicle etc etc..... what no one? Shame on you...LOL..

Where is that exactly? Heaven...or maybe hell.

Depends on what they are looking for.


Keeping in mind the only content the Lindens will be requiring verification for is Explicit Sex and Explicit Violence -----

----------------------------------------------------

Sex stuff -

http://redlightcenter.com/
http://sociolotron.amerabyte.com/website2/
http://www.naughtyamericathegame.com/


Various 2D chat rooms

Various Porn Sites

---------------------------------------------

Violence is easier - there are violent games all over the place.

<snip>
Or for you non humans:
www.furaffinity.net
;P

Then there's Yahoo/MSN/AIM for your text-sex...

eh, like I said, I do not expect LL to accept my snail mail with my legally signed doc stating my age. It's more the point of it, you know? I have no interest in SL sex, and I suspect any violence I would be interested in wouldn't be considered to fall under the age verified category. But if they won't accept a notarized statement saying that I'm of age, proven with a picture ID, then their little verification process is shown for the sham it is.

Or, I'll steal my daughters ID data and use it. She's of age. LOL

I understand where you are coming from. You are willing to prove conclusively to LL your age. But not give information some data mining company that does statistics for political campaigns.

Thats a logical stance on things.

Well I agree with you to a degree. LL are selling this badly. It's about protecting backsides, passing the buck to Integrity, it's not about trust or making it more difficult for minors to get here. A little bit of honesty on the issue wouldn't go amiss.

Bleh this is just sad, not only are they forceing people and places to flag up BUT on top of that they want my personal information to give to some two bit side company?
Like fucking hell, I have been here a shit long time and this is just sick I refuse to give out my personal information with all the ID stealing lately you must be kiding me. Hell I even PAY to use this game, I dont have to but I do to help support it. But I guess my money and my credit card just isnt enough for them eh.

I know how you feel, but if you look at the required data, none of it is secret information (i.e. SSN).

Ugh, the "Trust" and "Safety" issues which they reiterated AGAIN on the latest blog post are so transparently false it's just MADDENING. "So, flag your parcels and do your part to increase trust and safety among your fellow Residents in Second Life."

Is there a SINGLE person in SL that is buying that?

The dystopian future / Orwellian overtones of such proclimations from "Our Leader" is a little (virtually) frightneing! EVERYONE knows it's BS but they keep reiterating that line anyway

It pisses me off that mature does not block out minors. I have gone into mature areas to find a young AV, now is this an ageplayer? Which is illegal or a parent allowing the kid into these places? I dont want minors on my land, I dont want to see child avatars in mature areas. This is not something I can control, this something that is done from LL. Kids should not be allowed to access mature areas period. Parental consent or not, the account should not be able to enter. How can we have an ageplay restriction if there are parents who allow kids in mature areas. I was shocked to see child avatars in mature sims. I thought they were protected by second life's TOS.

How do you know they are 'children' in real life? Assuming one's age by their avatar isn't something I'd recommend.

Let's think about this...do we want our children (those of us that have them and care) to be able to enter 'mature' zones? Honestly. Do you? If you don't, can you monitor your offspring's computer usage properly?

Ok, so if the majority of us don't want our children to be able to accuess these areas, we then have to ask ourselves this...do we mind entering our CC information, in hopes it will help eliminate such an easy-access porntastic environment? If the answer is, "yes I mind...doesn't matter why I mind...I mind", and we have to respect this as opinion...it doesn't mean, however, that they should have any say in how a 'game' is constructed. Look at games like WoW...you have to have a CC for that...do you see them complaining? Heck no.

So why is it so hard to lay down payment information? Hell, I don't even pay a dime--I'm still on a basic account--but I don't mind LL having my CC info...what are they going to do with it? Nothing...other than have it on file for age verification. So if us placing a little 'personal info' in LL hands is going to stop the eyes and minds of the innocent from witnessing (let's face it) some pretty raunchy content...it's totally worth it.

But in the end let's face it...children are children--the majority of them are clever, and will always find a way to break the rules and get into things they 'should be getting into.' That's life, and in the end, we ALL adapt.

*shrugs*