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Why age verify in-world?

Jessica Elytis
Goddess
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,783
08-31-2007 03:40
I figure this will get locked, so I'm hoping the RezMod will send it on ti LR since LL cut all forms of feedback to them. No, I'm not calling them on my dime, yes, I already e-mailed (which they never respond to), and no, the "Feedback on Current Version" forum doesn't fit this.

On with the post.

Why does LL insist on continuously placing the Age Verification in-world and on the responsibility of the Residents?

This is NOT our responsibility. It is LL's.

Quite frankly,
I do not want the responsibility of determining if someone is a minor or not.
I do not want to ban people from my land because they can not verify because giving out such information as LL is asking over the internet is illegal within their country.
I do not want the same worry as to whether an account is a minor simply because "Johnny" verified his account using mommy's information (Do you really think a kid can't get his parents SSN or Driver's License #? I mean, come on.)

What I want is for LL to grow a brain on this. If LL really wanted children off the Main Grid, they could do two easy things.
1) Take away the Payment Verification needed for children to access the Teen Grid. ~Supposedly~ this is there to prevent adults from accessing the Teen Grid. Since mostly only adults have the infor to verify Payment I say that statement from LL is just full of bulls***.
2) Do SOMETHING on the Teen Grid to make it worth a teen to go there. I've never logged in there, but from all I've heard of talking to those that have teens there, or who used to be on the Teen Grid and transfered to the Main Grid once they turned 18, the common consensous is that there's not a lot there.

No wonder teens "sneak" onto the Main Grid. LL has made it easier, and more attractive for them to be on the Main Grid than the Teen Grid.

I'm not against Age/ID Verification. However, this needs to be done at sign-up and needs to remain the sole responsibility of LL. Legally, I believe it still remains such, and I will be asking legal council about such. I do believe that since LL states their site is "Adult 18+" that they are legaly responsible for all minors on the Main Grid.

Shucking off responsibility onto their customers is just poor management, and poor customer relations.

For all the hype LL is giving their "awesome new shiney", it won't do a thing to prevent minors on the Main Grid, but it will cause more strife within the community.

~Jessy
_____________________
When your friend does somethign stupid:
From: Aldo Stern
Dude, you are a true and good friend, and I love you like the brother that my mom claims she never had, but you are in fact acting like a flaming douche on white toast with a side order of dickknob salsa..maybe you should reconsider this course of action and we go find something else to do.
Capella DeCuir
Registered User
Join date: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 289
08-31-2007 04:01
Making the teen grid wonderful and easily accessable wouldn't change the fact that teenagers, inevitably, don't want to stay where they belong and would much rather interact with adults + thier peers rather than their peers alone.

There's nothing LL can do to change the fact that teens will seek out content that is not meant for them and may, in fact, be illegal for them to view except to require age verification on the adult grid.
Bradley Bracken
Goodbye, Farewell, Amen
Join date: 2 Apr 2007
Posts: 3,856
08-31-2007 04:09
The answer is easy. LL appears to be moving towards being classified as an ISP. Smart move on their part as it would eliminate a huge amount of liability.

It's not the responsibility of AOL or Earthlink or any of the thousands of other ISP's out there to ensure it's not children viewing those naughty websites. LL would like the same deal.
Victorria Paine
Sleepless in Wherever
Join date: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,110
08-31-2007 05:23
From: Bradley Bracken
The answer is easy. LL appears to be moving towards being classified as an ISP. Smart move on their part as it would eliminate a huge amount of liability.

It's not the responsibility of AOL or Earthlink or any of the thousands of other ISP's out there to ensure it's not children viewing those naughty websites. LL would like the same deal.


Good luck to LL on that one, lol.

And for the OP: Yes, LL is very much passing the buck back to the users so that if someone complains about content, LL can (1) say we have a verification system in place that uses a third party, and we can't help it if people lie in that process and (2) have recourse against property owners in SL for not flagging their content "appropriately". It's by no means an ironclad solution, but clearly LL's lawyers are trying to shore up potential exposures for LL by passing the buck onto LL's paying customers and away from the company that is actually collecting that money.
Warda Kawabata
Amityville Horror
Join date: 4 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,300
08-31-2007 05:25
lets see.

Verification as protection for minors /against minors impersonating adults: doesn't work. The minors who would be on SL are already used to breaking rules. Getting mom/dad's id won't be a big stretch for them

Verification as assurance of trust for business dealings: doesn't work. What is needed isnt identity, but teh ability to trust a particular identity, which are utterly different. Quite a large number of major RL corporations were considered highly trustworthy, right until they appearted in teh tabloids on major charges of fraud, after all. Their identities were readily avaialbel back then too.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
08-31-2007 05:28
They want to somehow become as ambiguous and free from litigation as web host services for the 2d Internet

Yet maintain their monopoly on server hosting and access (through the server/client/asset server/ Linden Dollar interaction) as long as is feasible.

AND still get the credit for creating the 3d Web.

Thats why they want to claim as much as possible that if minors access your content - it is your fault.
Victorria Paine
Sleepless in Wherever
Join date: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,110
08-31-2007 05:35
From: Warda Kawabata

Verification as assurance of trust for business dealings: doesn't work. What is needed isnt identity, but teh ability to trust a particular identity, which are utterly different. Quite a large number of major RL corporations were considered highly trustworthy, right until they appearted in teh tabloids on major charges of fraud, after all. Their identities were readily avaialbel back then too.


Yes of course. Imagine, for example, you are buying a used car from someone. It's always an issue of trust. Do you instantly trust them more if they show you that their SSN is actually their own real SSN? I can't imagine at all why that is relevant. Lots of crooks and cheaters and nasty people have perfectly valid SSNs.
Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
08-31-2007 05:48
This is getting to be standard issue for many organisations globally. Unfortunately, people can't be trusted to just use SL to throw watermelons at each other and make pizzas ...

(Thankfully)
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To exchange power is sublime. To steal from another ... well, what goes around comes around.
Jessica Elytis
Goddess
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,783
08-31-2007 09:03
From: Capella DeCuir
Making the teen grid wonderful and easily accessable wouldn't change the fact that teenagers, inevitably, don't want to stay where they belong and would much rather interact with adults + thier peers rather than their peers alone.

There's nothing LL can do to change the fact that teens will seek out content that is not meant for them and may, in fact, be illegal for them to view except to require age verification on the adult grid.


Yes, however, most Teens will take the "easiest" way. If they can get here without entering CC/PayPal info, why in heaven's name would they even bother with the Teen Grid?

As for those that want "adult content", Ummm....nothing LL puts in place in-world is gonna stop that. If they think so, they're only fooling themselves. Me, I remember what it was like to be a teenager. I'm fairly sure those today are little different and can still get around "rules" such as AV in about the 2 minutes it takes ot enter mom or dad's SSN. Hello!!! Those numbers are required on some school forms, so the teens already ahve access to them. DUH!!!

~Jessy
_____________________
When your friend does somethign stupid:
From: Aldo Stern
Dude, you are a true and good friend, and I love you like the brother that my mom claims she never had, but you are in fact acting like a flaming douche on white toast with a side order of dickknob salsa..maybe you should reconsider this course of action and we go find something else to do.
Ravanne Sullivan
Pole Dancer Extraordinair
Join date: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 674
08-31-2007 10:08
From: Jessica Elytis


This is NOT our responsibility. It is LL's.



This is an excellent point. LL has a stated policy that you must be 18 or over to enter the main grid. We all agree to this when we sign up for access. As such we can safely assume that anyone we deal with on the main grid is 18 or over. It is like a dancer at a strip club in RL. What she is doing would be criminal if done with a minor present but since there is a policy in place to exclude minors and to enter you must go thru a gatekeeper she is safe in her interactions with anyone in the club. We can not be held accountable if the gatekeeper is not doing their job, they are the ones responsible as unlike them, we have no direct dealings with anyone entering SL.
_____________________
Ravanne's Dance Poles and Animations

Available at my Superstore and Showroom on Insula de Somni
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Insula de Somni/94/194/27/
Peggy Paperdoll
A Brat
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 4,383
08-31-2007 10:34
From: Ravanne Sullivan
This is an excellent point. LL has a stated policy that you must be 18 or over to enter the main grid. We all agree to this when we sign up for access. As such we can safely assume that anyone we deal with on the main grid is 18 or over. It is like a dancer at a strip club in RL. What she is doing would be criminal if done with a minor present but since there is a policy in place to exclude minors and to enter you must go thru a gatekeeper she is safe in her interactions with anyone in the club. We can not be held accountable if the gatekeeper is not doing their job, they are the ones responsible as unlike them, we have no direct dealings with anyone entering SL.


What you say is true. And to carry that dancer analogy a little further, it's always been the law in the US about minors gaining access to such clubs. However, in the past, clubs and bars have been a little lax in their enforcement of such laws. They get busted (or see other clubs get busted) and decide to tighten up there policies.........ID everyone at the door. What's more even someone with an ID that still looks or acts underage they must either deny access or get more information to "verify" the age requirement. And it still happens.......minors get in. But, the club owners made a good faith attempt (with their policy) so they do have legal recourses to fall back on. The dancers doing their "lap dances" can be a little more comfortable too.......and are probably safe from prosecution.

What I see LL attempting to do is put a policy in place for such protection........mainly for them, but also for us. I don't see what else can be done. LL has gotten busted and now has to impliment some form of ID verifying. Using a third party has an advantage of not having any "conflict of interest" on the policy.

Because of human nature and adolescent rebellousness.........we all need to bring our ID to the gate. Everyone bitches but no one has come up a better way.
Lincoln Lupino
Hats & Slats Maker
Join date: 3 Dec 2006
Posts: 122
08-31-2007 12:42
The world has moved on.

Does anyone else see the irony in protecting teens who already, as a generation, have vastly more experience in sex than the rest of America, from virtual boobs?
Caete Chevalier
TOC Resident Neko
Join date: 8 Jan 2007
Posts: 118
08-31-2007 12:59
Well, as has been heard before, the teen grid will eventually vanish, essentially merge with the main adult one, where a lot of teens reside as it is. The age verification is laying the groundwork more for this to happen.

It's also letting LL duck repsonibilty for the actions of others and putting the responsibility where it belongs.

Want to claim to be an adult and see the nawty places/stuff? Verify.

Want to keep the kiddos out of the nawty places/stuff? Verify.

Only you, said land/club/whatever owner knows if your stuff is adult, nawty, etc. If in doubt, remove/restrict access.

I am sure many will not, and stick with the mature rating to help keep things a bit secure.

Others will probably shift to verified, especially the hard places.

Personally this should have been in place at day one and now as the grids merge, it's becoming necessary to "safeguard" teens from pixel porn procurement.

Yes, we all know they will find paths around it, they already hit websites, newsgroups, etc for the stuff. LL is trying to cya and have the tools to let us self police our land/thoughts/property. I'd rather have my own option of setting what my land is at than let another judge me and my lifestyle and impose their judgement on me.

Nothing is fool proof, and I'm sure LL knows this. They do have to go thru the motions, make the effort, provide the tools before some close minded or worse group screams about it.

Do notice it is optional.

mew
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CAeTe Chevalier

Future Crazy Cat Lady
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
08-31-2007 13:06
From: Caete Chevalier


Want to claim to be an adult and see the nawty places/stuff? Verify.



LL know I'm an adult without this process and have told me this.
Har Fairweather
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 2,320
08-31-2007 13:13
Thre are very few perfect solutions in this world, and there seem to be none at all in the age-verification arena. Seems to me, best LL can do is a good-faith effort using the tools available, within reason, to keep kids off the grid. That will in fact keep a lot of kids off the grid who should not be there, though not all. As for the ones who sneak on using parents' data, well, that is the responsibility of the responsible adult(s) in their house, isn't it?

PARENT: But he did it behind my back, officer.
OFFICER: That's YOUR credit card and ID, isn't it, sumbitch?
PARENT: Yes, but..,but...
OFFICER YOU IN A HEAP O' TROUBLE, BOY.

Personally, I think the kids problem is only part of it. Note it is called IDENTITY verification. I suspect they are looking forward to an open-source grid with people attaching their own servers to it, and want to set up a situation where each account and server is governed by the laws of his/her/its country, and LL is not saddled with enforcing crazy laws in crazy countries on their entire grid, like forbidding a citizen of Macau or Monaco from on-line gambling because it is illegal in the US. Identity verification looks to me like a key step in that direction.

Personally, I like maximum freedom to make my own decisions, in SL as in FL. Don't know about you, but I do not want hidebound bureaucrats with little or no discretion or judgment and venal politicians making decisions for me if it is at all avoidable. If your feelings differ, there are a number of countries in the world that might be more suited to you, like North Korea (or maybe only Singapore, if you don't want to go whole hog right away), and there are VR alternatives to SL, like There.com (suppresses nearly uncontrollable laughter).

I am all for LL in its efforts to work it's way out of the legal maze that a planet-full of incompatible laws imposes on them.
Jessica Elytis
Goddess
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,783
08-31-2007 13:27
From: Peggy Paperdoll
What you say is true. And to carry that dancer analogy a little further, it's always been the law in the US about minors gaining access to such clubs. However, in the past, clubs and bars have been a little lax in their enforcement of such laws. They get busted (or see other clubs get busted) and decide to tighten up there policies.........ID everyone at the door. What's more even someone with an ID that still looks or acts underage they must either deny access or get more information to "verify" the age requirement. And it still happens.......minors get in. But, the club owners made a good faith attempt (with their policy) so they do have legal recourses to fall back on. The dancers doing their "lap dances" can be a little more comfortable too.......and are probably safe from prosecution.

What I see LL attempting to do is put a policy in place for such protection........mainly for them, but also for us. I don't see what else can be done. LL has gotten busted and now has to impliment some form of ID verifying. Using a third party has an advantage of not having any "conflict of interest" on the policy.

Because of human nature and adolescent rebellousness.........we all need to bring our ID to the gate. Everyone bitches but no one has come up a better way.


If LL was tightening security "at the door", I would have no qualms at all with it. They are not. They are forcing us to their work for them.

If someone reports me as being under age, then LL is well within their rights to request ID/Age verification. This has always been the policy of the past.

However, LL does not ask for anything (other than a person's word) at signup for verification. THIS is the point that sticks in my craw. I pay LL to run the grid. I pay them to fix bugs. I pay them to provide customer support.

I do NOT pay them to give me work to do policing THEIR product to ensure minors are not using it.

If LL wants me to ensure that minors can not access any "adult material" that I place on an ADULT grid, then they can pay me to do that. Until I get a check from LL and am placed on their salery (I want helath insurance and a 401k too) then LL can do their own job.

You want a better way? Easy.

First, review the laws for every single country in the world that accesses SL must be concidered, and ensure means to verify be made available that fall within every country's laws. A daunting bit of research there, but one easily enough accomplished by any legal represenative with internet access to worldwide laws.

Chose a secure means to verify such information and make the name(s) of the companies public. Find reliable 3rd party reports on teh company and make links well pubished for Resident review. (I would recommend shying away from Forbes as a credible source due to their past "sensationalist" reports on SL).

Then CLOSE "Open Registration". Require all accounts made from this date on to bring forth some type of verification at signup. Obviously, this does not need to be done on the Teen Grid, because there is no way to provide proof of un-age.

Once that is in place, then (and only then) provide the same means as mentioned for the signup registration to active accounts. Provide a 30 day "grace period" for word to reach as many as possible for them to provide such information as needed.

Then begin a systematic rollthrough of all non-verified accounts. Going through alphabetically by last name would probably make the most sense. Deactivate said accounts and send e-mails to the one provided (we are all currently required to provide a valid e-mail at signup).

Have a dedicated group of LL employees on-call to handle the intitial flood (I estimate two weeks) of deactivated accounts needing reactivated. This group should have full access to whomever is doing the verification.

See? It's not hard to plan things in advance instead of just bumbling through.

~Jessy
_____________________
When your friend does somethign stupid:
From: Aldo Stern
Dude, you are a true and good friend, and I love you like the brother that my mom claims she never had, but you are in fact acting like a flaming douche on white toast with a side order of dickknob salsa..maybe you should reconsider this course of action and we go find something else to do.
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
08-31-2007 13:36
From: Har Fairweather


I am all for LL in its efforts to work it's way out of the legal maze that a planet-full of incompatible laws imposes on them.


I am too all for their efforts, but when something stinks it stinks and there's something decidedly dodgy about this process.

I'm all for alternatives to this process, and being as people have verified with name and address and as LL have this information on me already, I should be able to verify without giving my information to a third party company whom I simply don't trust at this moment in time, which is ironic as this whole process is supposed to be about improving trust.
Elinah Iredell
Registered User
Join date: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 269
08-31-2007 13:55
Why isn't requiring a credit or debit card along with promising to be of age enough to protect LL legally ? They want to require something of us all , so require that. It is fishy to me they are not doing it and instead are coming up with all kinds of ways to invade people's privacy for this.

Elinah
Winchendon Dickins
Registered User
Join date: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 40
08-31-2007 14:14
I met a newbie today who told me that within minutes of him working his way through orientation island, he met another very new newbie young woman. After a hallo each, she asked his rl age. While he was typing out his answer (some remark about being ten minutes old) another newbie came up and this young woman asked how old he was. He told her his rl age, which was an age in his thirties, she was very pleased with that. Then she asked again for the age of the newbie I met and who told me all this. Before he could type his answer (again a reference to the fact that he was very new and that he was a bit older than the other guy plus that he is v-e-r-y slow at typing), she made it known to the other man she was 14, then changed it to 16!

The newbie guy I met told me that he told her that if she was that age she should be on the Teen Grid, but she did not know that there was such a thing. He told her he didnt know how she was supposed to get there but that she should maybe find out through the SL website as he believed that as she was under 18 she shouldnt be on the main grid. She told him to shut up, then called him sexy, then asked him for a kiss and made her avatar get real close up to him! He told me he backed away from her and told her no and again said she was not allowed there. She told him to go to hell!!

He was really concerned about all this and felt that if he was a different kind of guy, he could have taken her under his wing in SL and led her into all sorts!!

So much for age-verification, voluntary or otherwise. This was today! Shouldnt LL be making the teens verify their ages, rather than us (older than 18s)?

Although, echoing what Lincoln (message no: 12) said about the fact that these days the teens have more experience in sex etc., this young 14 or 16 year old newbie woman was really quite keen on getting someone who is older than 30 to kiss her and calling him sexy etc., before they had even left orientation island. As far as I know, there is absolutely no adult content there which could corrupt any teens who got as far as orientation island, so she was keen on something very adult within just a few minutes of arriving in SL. What good is age verification in that respect?

I advised this newbie guy to report her so that she could be removed to the Teen Grid and he said he had already done that. I checked her name in search and it wasnt there, so hopefully that will mean that LL removed her quickly to the teen grid before she corrupted any poor age-UNverified adult!!!
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
08-31-2007 14:23
From: Winchendon Dickins
I met a newbie today who told me that within minutes of him working his way through orientation island, he met another very new newbie young woman. After a hallo each, she asked his rl age. While he was typing out his answer (some remark about being ten minutes old) another newbie came up and this young woman asked how old he was. He told her his rl age, which was an age in his thirties, she was very pleased with that. Then she asked again for the age of the newbie I met and who told me all this. Before he could type his answer (again a reference to the fact that he was very new and that he was a bit older than the other guy plus that he is v-e-r-y slow at typing), she made it known to the other man she was 14, then changed it to 16!

The newbie guy I met told me that he told her that if she was that age she should be on the Teen Grid, but she did not know that there was such a thing. He told her he didnt know how she was supposed to get there but that she should maybe find out through the SL website as he believed that as she was under 18 she shouldnt be on the main grid. She told him to shut up, then called him sexy, then asked him for a kiss and made her avatar get real close up to him! He told me he backed away from her and told her no and again said she was not allowed there. She told him to go to hell!!

He was really concerned about all this and felt that if he was a different kind of guy, he could have taken her under his wing in SL and led her into all sorts!!

So much for age-verification, voluntary or otherwise. This was today! Shouldnt LL be making the teens verify their ages, rather than us (older than 18s)?

Although, echoing what Lincoln (message no: 12) said about the fact that these days the teens have more experience in sex etc., this young 14 or 16 year old newbie woman was really quite keen on getting someone who is older than 30 to kiss her and calling him sexy etc., before they had even left orientation island. As far as I know, there is absolutely no adult content there which could corrupt any teens who got as far as orientation island, so she was keen on something very adult within just a few minutes of arriving in SL. What good is age verification in that respect?

I advised this newbie guy to report her so that she could be removed to the Teen Grid and he said he had already done that. I checked her name in search and it wasnt there, so hopefully that will mean that LL removed her quickly to the teen grid before she corrupted any poor age-UNverified adult!!!



Theres a better than even chance the 14/16 year old was over 30 as well.
Ravanne Sullivan
Pole Dancer Extraordinair
Join date: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 674
08-31-2007 16:48
From: Peggy Paperdoll

What I see LL attempting to do is put a policy in place for such protection........mainly for them, but also for us. I don't see what else can be done. LL has gotten busted and now has to impliment some form of ID verifying. Using a third party has an advantage of not having any "conflict of interest" on the policy.


The problem with this is that LL's implementation is flawed. If you setup a gatekeeper policy and procedure it must occur at the "gate" not after access has already been achieved. To reference my earlier example it would be like a strip club with no bouncer at the door and the dancers required to check ID on everyone they danced for, a ridiculous situation and totaly unworkable. The simple, and only true, way to provide "age verification" in SL is to make everyone comply and restrict access to only those who are verified.
_____________________
Ravanne's Dance Poles and Animations

Available at my Superstore and Showroom on Insula de Somni
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Insula de Somni/94/194/27/
Peggy Paperdoll
A Brat
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 4,383
08-31-2007 17:06
From: Ravanne Sullivan
The problem with this is that LL's implementation is flawed. If you setup a gatekeeper policy and procedure it must occur at the "gate" not after access has already been achieved. To reference my earlier example it would be like a strip club with no bouncer at the door and the dancers required to check ID on everyone they danced for, a ridiculous situation and totaly unworkable. The simple, and only true, way to provide "age verification" in SL is to make everyone comply and restrict access to only those who are verified.



That's about the only way it could work in reality..........but, tell me honestly, what hell would break loose in this forum if such a policy came about. There is a very vocal group in SL that will scream bloody murder if LL "told" them to verify or get out. That may happen down the road........but something must be done now. And a voluntary verification process is a viable option. Voluntary anything almost always leads to mandatory measures..........soon afterwards.

Look at the optional viewer updates.........they all eventually become mandatory.
SpankMe Pinkerton
Registered User
Join date: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 158
08-31-2007 17:41
I found the part in the LL post about ID verification lending itself to more confident financial relationships rather odd. If they want better trust between businesses and consumers and general economical confidence, they should focus on the HUGE problem of random inventory losses. I sell many complex expensive items. Customers need to know when they buy large items in SL, they will not vanish from their inventory. Better data backup is required. LL also needs to develop a system where the creator of an item can verify if it has truly been lost from someone’s inventory. Another potential development would be some sort of community based (probably LL supervised) policing/enforcement program. Details of how such a system could work have been thrown around the forums before.

Consumer confidence would increase substantially if residents could purchase items without fear of random and non-confirmable inventory loss and had reasonable means to settle disputes with shady business owners. I don't think the flawed and invasive ID verification system proposed by LL would do much to help consumer confidence if these two issues (especially the former) are not addressed.
Conan Godwin
In ur base kilin ur d00ds
Join date: 2 Aug 2006
Posts: 3,676
08-31-2007 18:05
LL merely provide the facilities for us to do business etc in-world. It is still our responsibility (as it should be) to control how we conduct that business and make sure we do it in an appropriate manner; this includes ensuring we are doing the right sort of business with the right people. One could argue, I suppose that it is LL's responsibility is to provide us the means to adequately discharge our duties (which they currently don't in this respect) - but they remain our duties. LL merely facilitate our businesses, they don't run them.
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From: Raindrop Cooperstone
hateful much? dude, that was low. die.

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Jessica Elytis
Goddess
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,783
08-31-2007 19:30
From: Conan Godwin
LL merely provide the facilities for us to do business etc in-world. It is still our responsibility (as it should be) to control how we conduct that business and make sure we do it in an appropriate manner; this includes ensuring we are doing the right sort of business with the right people. One could argue, I suppose that it is LL's responsibility is to provide us the means to adequately discharge our duties (which they currently don't in this respect) - but they remain our duties. LL merely facilitate our businesses, they don't run them.


We DID ensure we could cunduct buisness and made sure we did it in an appropriate manner. That is; we singed up for accounts on an adult grid. (or an over 18 grid if you prefer).

LL advertised the Main Grid as 18+. Now since they dropped the ball (open registration), they are afraid to pick it back up. So now they are kicking it into our court. Basically more bad customer service.

Or in other words; LL lied to us when they told us the Main Grid was 18+.

"it is LL's responsibility is to provide us the means to adequately discharge our duties"

Last time I looked, I hadn't sworn an oath to LL. I bought a service. A service they are not providing. To provide that service LL needs to step up and take care of the verification themselves. If they don't, we're just going to be playing this song at another dance once the media picks up (or makes up) the next big hype.

Tape and bubblegum are not going to fix this issue. Philip needs to plan this out and set it in concrete or the continued descrepancy with children within SL is going to cause continual headaches. Not to mention tick off paying customers to no good end.

~Jessy
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When your friend does somethign stupid:
From: Aldo Stern
Dude, you are a true and good friend, and I love you like the brother that my mom claims she never had, but you are in fact acting like a flaming douche on white toast with a side order of dickknob salsa..maybe you should reconsider this course of action and we go find something else to do.
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