1.6 Blows!!!!

Not every computer in the world is going to run 1 application exactly the same way. Unfortunately.

Myself, 1.6 has been a boon -- I get better fps, a better tweaked render, and the new features are enjoyable.

Other people mix up the term "lag" which is often a client-side problem and not a sim problem (aside from the grid losing you at a crossing).

I don't know how to make your experience Rock, or anyone elses better in the immediate term. I do know that there are more productive ways in the long term that won't aggravate the rest of the community with your problems.

If you still see issues -- document your computer's configuration and send that info along with your bug reports.

Believe it or not, there is someone on the other end receiving such reports and doing something about it. However, there are certain issues with a technical complexity well beyond what you've admitted you can understand.

What I've been saying this entire time is either be supportive of SL and LL or keep it down and stop bothering everyone who are trying to be supportive.

I think it's a nice thing that users of secondlife are offered the previews to help catch problems with new releases. This part of the process is known as a public beta, this is really the end game for a release that is pretty much ready to go out the door to comsumers after already heavy extensive professional level testing.

I don't believe it is the responsibility of your consumer to be held accountable for a product that is buggy because they didn't test it out well enough for you. It also isn't a good way to approach a fellow player and place the blame of a faulty prodct on them because they didn't test the latest release.

If I don't test the new release I still have a right to complain about the final product, it isn't my job to test, it's my job to pay my game fee so they can support their company with proper employees to do the job best to provide the product desired.

I know that no one wanted any of these issues that people are complaining about, and sometimes you have to say..."this or that" issue we can live with for now and fix later, this is releasable, it doesn't have to be perfect, releasing software isn't about releasing perfection, or you will never get it out the door to the public. You have balances and what you can live with or will fix in the following release.

The responsibility is on the Lindens to provide their entertainment game in such a way that the majority of users will be able to enjoy the product.

I am new here. I think the features available to me are really cool. I think this entire Secondlife is so amazing full of potential.

I notice that when I am in some places I lag and in some places I don't. If I see an accumulation of people in an area, I have learned that I will most likely experience the lag whereas when I am not around a bunch of people I generally get less lag, although sometimes there is no one around and I lag. BUT it has me left surprised the times I go into a group of people and don't get lag, I think that should be the other way around, I should be surprised when I do get lag, it shouldn't be something "normal"

I say, add more features, bring it all on, I can't wait ! But if I can't get around the world to enjoy them then it's all fairly useless then isn't it?

It's one thing to document your issues with a piece of software and submit your feedback to developers, it's quite another to tell them they don't know what they're doing -- especially if you don't even know a single programming language and have never built a software product such as theirs.

These are real people working on a real product and putting in a lot of their lives and passions into it. What do they get in return? Indignant users telling them that they've created a useless piece of crap and as paying customers they shouldn't have to put up with it?

There's a fine line that's being trampled on here -- as a consumer we should get what we pay for, but if we don't and we're not satisfied; all we can do is vote with our wallets. Just because we give LL money for the services provided to us, doesn't make them our slaves.

I for one, wouldn't have it from my clients. Nobody tells me I'm not good enough.
If you don't like my final product, fine -- there are other options. I'll just tell you to go look for them and stfu.

I agree with you Icon in that if you don't want feedback from your consumer then don't provide an outlet for that feedback.

I really enjoy and respect the people that I work with, but sometimes they or we can go in a direction or make mistakes that suck. I don't mind being called to the mat on it, and yeah I work hard, I put my blood into it. It totally feels awful when we miss the mark but it happens and we grow from it. Holding one another accountable for what we do, makes us all stronger.

Yes, SL users can speak with their wallet and hit the door as it pleases them if that is the avenue they want to take, they also have the option to complain and the freedom to put out how they feel, the LindenLabs provides them this outlet. I think it's healthy and shows they do care about their consumer. I also imagine they have tough skin, anyone working on something especially in the software industry needs to have one and be open to the feedback when you open the doors for it. What they/you choose to do with it is your own business.

I won't get into some odd debate over why feedback is useful, but a mature company provides the outlet, sorts out the information, sets priorities, uses what they can, and moves along to the next step. I see that Linden Labs does that.

Does it make the last release any better or any worse, no. I do imagine that a lot of the changes made to create 1.6 were indeed based on some sort of priority system that somewhere along the line included user feedback, including the "this sucks, please change it sort" and I am confident the next release will include much of the same process.

Why do you believe Rock doesn't have a right to express how he is seeing things and feels about it?

Dude, he has a point, i crash in certain places in 1/10th of sims or something, but meh im over it

I havent had even one major problem with 1.6. Maybe its because Macintosh rulez !!

You know it's nice to see people here and in world telling me they agree with my point of view. Just last night a friend of mine said that she saw my posts, and was going to respond to the allegations made about my character, but she was too pissed to do so at the time she had read the posts.

Ryan has made his own good and valid points.

Icon,

I'm not one who idolizes others. I just don't. People are people. As Ryan said, this is about making our time in SL enjoyable. Why do you think it's wrong for people to want to enjoy their time in SL?

Also, how does my not having technical expertise mean anything? As far as who I am, I'm an extremely thorough person. I relish details. If I could post some of my musical creations here I would, so you could hear how detailed the music I've created on my keyboard is. I actively manage every single note I record so that it sounds good. I know that may not sound similar, but if you saw me programming a song over a week's time, you'd see how much thought and care is put into getting a song where I want it. I'm cursed with logic and a high IQ. Besides, if I knew how to script would my time in SL magically be better? No, it wouldn't.

As far as criticising someone who does something that I don't do, there are plenty of analogies I could make about people doing that all the time. A big one would be people who criticize actors in movies. Most of us don't act, but a great deal of us don't think Keanu Reeves is a brilliant actor. My post primarily deals not with the people who do the technical work for LL. My beef is with the management, and with the direction of the people who create the actual program Second Life. I'm not complaining about most of the company as a matter of fact. My complaint is with the person or people who authorized release of 1.6, because it caused strife. It's as plain and simple as that.

I've developed my coping mechanism now for this version, so I'm about over it. It's just a shame I now have to relog where I didn't have to previously.

-------------------------------------------------

DNA,

Cool to hear. I wish I had one.

Ive had zero problems with 1.6 and not cause Im on a mac, Im on a PC.

Here's what you do.

When you crash, and the little crash logger pops up and says "hey! you crashed!", ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS click "yes, send a crash report" and detail what you were doing when it crashed.

Always.

I was crashing every time I flew around from about 1.5.7 onward... every time I'd crash I'd send in a bug report. Every time. Eventually phoenix noticed how many bug reports I was sending in and started looking at what was causing it...

And now here's 1.6 and I don't crash anymore. In fact, I haven't crashed ONCE since launch, even when doing some rather crashable things (lots of people in the crowd, overloading my bandwidth, watching movies improperly, etc.)

So yes, they DO fix bugs.

They WANT you to send in bug reports and crash reports.

They aren't helped by vague assumptions and hyperbole on the forums, however.

LF

Thank you for the eloquence I apparently lack.

It's not exactly appropriate and constructive to say, "1.6 Blows!!!!"

That's not feedback, that's an opinion; and a very negative one at that. If I went around the world telling everyone what I think they make blows, I'd have no friends. Nobody can stop me from having those opinions and if you're one of the people that have the opinion that "1.6 Blows!!!" then be prepared for people who aren't going to like you.

On the contrary -- if I'd discreetly logged what was not working in 1.6 on my machine and sent it to LL and kept due dilligence about it, they might actually open up dialog with me and work towards isolating and fixing the problem in future releases... just as LF has described.

Same goes if I walked around SL and instead of saying, "That building blows, you suck at building, it lags me to death, why did you build it that way? You could've built it better," I talked to those people about it and gave them constructive criticisms -- they might take them, they might not -- but they probably won't think I'm annoying or other more profane things.

In the bigger picture -- if everyone went around saying everything blows, nobody'd be having a good time. It's not that we can't be mad about something or be frustrated, but if we don't think positively and aim for a solution it does eventually harm the community as a whole.

Besides, I'm sure most of us don't like to hear how much we suck or what we work on "blows."

I love 1.6! My performance is increased rather dramatically, inventory search is a godsend, the new building tools are very useful, the texture picker saves me huge amounts of time... all in all, despite a crash here and there, I think this is a great update.

Icon,

You keep picking this fight with me, and you're wrong. I thought about addressing my language in the last post, but if you can't figure out why a person would want to draw attention to themselves with such inflammatory language then you're not getting it. I worded it that way to draw attention to this post. I keep arguing with you, so my post stays up regardless of whether I'm over it or not.

My style of speaking here doesn't reflect every aspect of my personality either, and that's where you're continually wrong. I'm not some bitter scoundrel telling everyone how terrible things they make are. You keep trying to paint me in this box, and you can't because you don't know me.

Now what intrigues me is why you'd read a post such as mine if you're going to be so sensitive about wording. What's up with that?
--------------------------------------------------

Ok, now for the reason I came here in the first place: to post this:

(Notice: I am "You")
You: I'm not sure if the 1.6.1 is better or not
kattt Nightshade: its not
michelle Cain: lol well have to wait and see
You: Haven't had too much trouble
You: IT's still bad Katt?
kattt Nightshade: today i have group im and others and it wouldn' tlet me at alllll get to the others not showing..
kattt Nightshade: yes before it wasn't really like that
michelle Cain: sorry to hear it
kattt Nightshade: but at least u can get on the program
michelle Cain: sounds like tthey need to work out the bugs
kattt Nightshade: yes
You: I've been arguing with some people on the SL forums about 1.6 problems
Lucynda Boffin: they were rough
michelle Cain: lol thats sad
You: the problems or the people?
kattt Nightshade: have u rock
You: lol
You: I have
You: They don't believe me when I say I've heard people complaining.
kattt Nightshade: i know they are trying to fix it .. but it makes it bad when u have problems crashing and such
Lucynda Boffin: there were SEVERE problems
michelle Cain: like what?
kattt Nightshade: should we tell live help
Lucynda Boffin: ave to head to bed
Lucynda Boffin: thankss for the games
kattt Nightshade: me to
kattt Nightshade: bye


This is from about 20 minutes ago.

Love it, much better speed. I will admit,there have been a few crashes, but its too be expected. You cant have it perfect all time, well done LL

Oh I get it. The title of this thread says it all.

I just said in my last post that if someone wants to walk around and say "1.6 Blows!!!" they're free to do so. I know what inflammatory language is used for and I merely saught to mention the consequences of its use.

Now if you want to make this personal, then let's talk about it in-world. Though I doubt it will do much to change either of our perspectives.

Have a nice day.

No, actually Icon, in your last post you said that saying something, "blows," is harmful to the community, which clearly it's not. There are no consequences other than you alone being overly sensitive about it.

Secondly, I'm not the one making it personal. You're the one continually making assumptions on who I am. If I wanted to make it personal I'd say the idea of theater in SL (as mentioned in your signature) blows, which I haven't (though I do believe it's fraught with "challenges".

You're free to look me up in world, but I'll just trade cards with you so you can stalk me, and see how I am amongst friends. You can clearly use some perspective when it comes to who I am. You should go play SL-ingo sometime. I often go to those events. That way, if there is any way, you can watch people dealing with their lag issues.

4/09/05 5:46 PM
Kimber Steele: absolutly 0 lag beautiful
You: Have you been having lag trouble?
Kimber Steele: at slingo hell yea
Rayne Weary: not lately
You: Can I quote you?
Rayne Weary: heh
Rayne Weary: dpnt hold it against me when i start cussing
You: never
You: When did your lag start?
Kimber Steele: who?
You: You
Kimber Steele: well u know when
Kimber Steele: after the update
Kimber Steele: one day i was at slinog
Kimber Steele: and we coudlnt even play it was so bad
Kimber Steele: slingo*
Rayne Weary: that sux
Kimber Steele: was taking like 1 min or 2 between roiunds

4/09/05 7:43PM
Exocet Turnbull: lag got awesome
You: You got good lag?
Exocet Turnbull: i get the best lag here
You: Because of the upgrade?
Lacie Angelus: Yes
Exocet Turnbull: coz im cursed
Lacie Angelus: The lag has been horrendous since the update
You: People don't believe me in the Forums about that
Apollo Whiplash: 3 click numbers
Lacie Angelus: omg I have to relog everytime I TP
You: They think I'm full of it
You: May I quote you?
Lacie Angelus: Who me?
You: Yes
Lacie Angelus: Sure
Lacie Angelus: I can't stand it....its been so bad since the update I must relog like 50 million times a night

Ask these folks

Please Refrain from Posting Chat Logs to the Forums.
If you wish to do so, ask for consent first!

Community Standards:



Sorry to go into assmode, but it's the law.

Correction: Were all parties asked to be quoted? I see you did, indeed, ask one of them. It's just "one of those things" that's not a good idea on the forums.

___


As to the issue, I'm frankly amazed this is still going. And again, all parties are welcome to their opinions.

As an aside, Rock, while you may have brought attention to your thread, I feel you brought the wrong kind by labelling it what it is now. As there have been several "1.6" polls, all with many, many responses, without this label - I'm going to have to say it was probably a bad idea. But that is my opinion.

Now that that's that, keep it civil folks. Please.

Jeff,

Thanks for the post. Yeah, I'm not trying to sell anyone out by posting their chat here. I can understand people not agreeing with me starting this thing so strongly, but I did want to garner attention to it. I posted these chats because the response here at times has seemed to suggest that I'm full of it, and not actually representing any problem(s). I also wanted to illustrate that Forum readers don't reflect everyone's opinion. Opinion forums tend to attract egomaniacs looking for attention. There are quite a few of us who mostly ignore the Forums.

Hopefully this thread will die soon. That subscription feature is sometimes more of a curse than a blessing.

Ok, this is my final post. I shall end my subscription now.

Peace,

Rock Psaltery

It does not matter how many people quote who where.
It does not matter if the forum is filled with "SL blows" threads or similar ones.
It does not matter if people cry, shout, whine, complain...

The only, really, the only way to reach the Lindens is by filing a bug report and sending crash log after crash log.

You can talk to a Linden in world.. he cannot help you. He is not a developer, not someone with enough insight on the client or server side. He might be a Liaison, a in-game builder or maybe even a bug hunter to some degree, but most likely he cannot do much else about a crash than to ask you to send in the bug report, so the right kind of people get the data neccessary to fix the issue.

I have a hard time to believe that the Lindens sit on their tushes in SF and laugh at every bug there is, happy to have given the community something to be angry about. They dislike bugs as much as we do, and rest assured, if they can fix a serious bug, they will. But there are many, unfortunately, which is normal for a project as big as that (see any other MMO.. same crap, even worse..) and some are more seriosu as others, as in "affect more people" or "cause more damage". And to find out which ones are wide-spread and cause the most damage.. they use the crash logs they get. You see where this leads to.

I am not protecting the Lindens. I hold them responsible for every bug in the client. But I see the neccessity to give them a good clue on what is wrong, and I mean a _good_ clue, not just "It sucks!". So I do. I expect them to fix bugs, and they do. What is bothersome is that each fixed bug often opens up another one somewhere else.. especially as they are pressed to add new features along the road as well, to keep their community happy.

Every bug there is is a nuisance to them like it is to us, really. As , it's as simple as that, each bug there is means additional work. The whole process of fixing it takes developer work, the whole process of testing it then takes bug hunter work, and answering the million people who complain about the crash takes liaison and forum work.

So, in the end.. yes, we should complain about every bug there is. We pay for it, and they are there to enable us to have a good experience in SL. But we need to complain in a constructive manner, to help get it fixed. But complain we should.

Not all of us have the knowledge or the technical mind to give detailed analysis of bugs that happened.. but we can descrie it as good as we can, and we can use the tools they provided that gathers information that is useful to them, the crash reporter.

That said, have a nice day,
Leopard Loveless

1.5 crashed, maybe 3 times over a peariod of about 2 months. For me, 1.6.1 crashes an average of once per session. I've learned that I can keep it from crashing by turning off video and not crossing sim boundaries. If I just stayin one sim it doesn't crash.

Buster

Just checking my post. I did unsubscribe, but yet again today I recorded more conversations of the same. I'll do everyone a favor and not post them here.

The reason I posted conversations about it, FYI, was just because people were trying to suggest that it's not all that bad, that I am one of the few. That's not the case.

Just tonight I learned another new coping mechanism that enabled me to actually stay in the sim I wanted to be in. Prior to learning how to do this I could stay for maybe one function before SL froze and I lost my cursor. As usual I tried through 3 or 4 four crashes and a computer reboot before logging in and just TPing away from that sim.

So now I have to preemptively and voluntarily relog to combat lag, and clearing my cache seems to help. Also lowering my graphics settings seems to help, though it's frustrating to be able to have them set nicely some places and have to reset them poorly in others.

Leopard, I am sending a lot more crash reports than previously, but you should know that the reason I've not trusted those reports is due to the voluntary nature of them. It shouldn't ask if I want to send one. It should be set to send one every time, and merely ask for comment. I've started sending them with the little info I can give them.

Well, sending the reports without consent will raise an uproar, as some people do not wish any debug info from their computers to be sent to someone they do not know personally.

Paranoia Panic, as introduced by modern company behaviours, courious governments and malware program writers.

But I'm glad you send in some more reports. Gives them data to work with
And I really hope they get this mess fixed, really. Tho, like I said before, I really do not have any serious issues with 1.6.1 (or 1.6.2, as seen on the preview atm.).

*meow*
Leopard Loveless

SL in my humble opinion is the best damn online community game ive ever had the pleasure of playing. Ive met so many wonderful people and some pretty amazing artist/coders. You are able to create things from built-in tools and sell em off for online money you can convert to real cash... for free. try doing that in other games (for free). It even has a bug reporter so every time your game screws up, SL coders pick up the problem and fix it. Ive seen soo many bug fixes during these weeks than ive seen in months, clearly more than enough evidence that the SL code gurus are hard at work to provide optimum game experience to its users. Lag and other issues are things that are still being worked on and patience is vital. after all, no app is completly flaw-free not even Windows. there will always be a bug that requires fixing. Also a good card will (as im sure most of you know) greatly aid with lag issuse. Stepping into SL without a decent video card is like going to war without a weapon. I simply love to new tool set, my only wish is that they consider adding a Mirror Tool. that would be heaven sent for builders like myself. Lag or not, my experience in SL is always a good one. the more im in, the more I learn.

Awesome game, Great community, Nuff said.

Today I was invited by a Linden to join a Preview 1.7 group as a result of this post.

A bug fixer was the one who contacted me, and he showed no trace of hostility toward me for my posts. I feel vindicated, and like I did my job by starting this post.

Some of the bugs have clearly been worked on and/or fixed. I can now play Slingo most of the time without issue, though certain venues continue to have trouble.

I am still of the opinion that SL ought to scale back the upgrades and stick to stability and fixing bugs, especially considering that SL is widely considered the best game of its type already. When you're already the best, the concentration should still be on the creating the best experience, and not necessarily jumping the gun on unnecessary upgrades. That's my opinion.

Anyway...

Hi,
I, IMHO, really like 1.6.
I like the control panels,
I like that I can walk and steer with my mouse,
I like the new 3D build editor much, much better,
I like the inventory search so much that that is worth all of the other "bad" stuff that may be there.
The only thing that could make the inventory better is being able to "intercept" any item before it goes in so that if you wanted to rename it, or place it somewhere else than a normal spot you could. The other thing is being able to click on a dress and see what it looks like without having to try it on.

I have not had problems crashing, I have only occasionally, very rarely, have had problems logging in. But then I don't play every day either. Perhaps the 4 or 5 times a month I get to play i've been lucky.

I spent about 10 days in the preview doing some testing. Truth is I've been a member almost a year and know less about this game than some of you that have been on a couple of months. Sigh. There were a lot of tests there in the preview that I was not able to do. Many I did not have the time for. And, sadly, many more I didn't even understand. But I did complete one or two and put my feedback in.

If you don't help with the process, when there's an opportunity to do so, then you really don't have any right to complain. SL has more frequent updates than any other online game I have ever played. Why? because this unique wonderful game allows the residents to shape their world. In the entire year I played in THERE I think there was one update that I can remember having to download a newer version. In addition to that, the 'content' in THERE was the same day after day after day. Very little change.

Every one of you that is complaining should really be ashamed. Why? because..

1) it means that you have absolutely no concept, no idea, no imagination as to how incredibly difficult it is to achieve what the Lindens have done. Real time building in world. I don't know of any other game that does that. Other games allow you to add pre-constructed approved 3D objects. NONE I know of lets you create and texture at will like SL does. and
2)When you complain about this and nitpick every little detail (especially if you did not do any testing) then you are not acknowledging any of the positives. If you had to work in a place where all you heard each day was negative bull crap how much incentive would you have to really try and make this way better.

Want to make SL better? Then get out and get involved make suggestions that are positive. How many people have posted in the last several hours "I still can't get on.. "
Good grief. for those who might be a little mentally challenged.. do you NOT think that the Lindens know there is a problem? Did it ever occur to you, and this can happen to any computer installation, that there might have been some catastrophic incident? And that the Lindens might be so absorbed in fixing the problem that they really don't have time to acknowledge and let you know that THEY KNOW YOU CAN'T LOG IN..

Negative people who whine and complain all the time really bore me because those people tend to be self absorbed, selfish and self centered. All they care about is that "Wah Way I can't log in..." Get a life, find something else to do in place of what you would be doing in SL and enjoy yourself. Are you not capable of adapting? Turn the lemons into lemonade.

Please just look at the BIG picture. This is SL it's not your REAL LIFE. There is no reason to get so bent out of shape when something goes wrong. Every game has it's problems. Yet there are some who put more importance in this game than their real life. Go with the flow, just take each day and enjoy what you get.

I get to play SL about 4 to 5 days each month if anyone has a right to complain when they can't get on it should be me. But, I am taking the opportunity to read and contribute in the forums and enjoy what some other positive people have had to say.

I wish everybody peace and good tidings,
wizzie