New Content Provider's view of New Policy

Hello...Me and my Business partner are content developers inside SL. Our businesses we run inside SL, are designed to help make sl better for a great deal number of players. We have several business partnerships also helping many others in business inside SL. We have , for over a year, developed new content, set new levels of business eithics, and continue to design new ideas and find ways to incorporate them into SL so many will benifit. We have not taken our business earnings out of SL, Instead redistributing them in various ways throughout SL. We buy content from others to increase our ability to provide new things to SL. We are Greatly disturbed by this new policy for many reasons. Here is a basic listing of many of those reasons, we would apreciate any and all input on this, ty.

1) The Lack of thought and Dramatic effect it is having on SL thru the release of such a broad policy. Highly Unproffessional in its wording and method of release into sl. It can easily be interpetted as any transaction in sl involing payment to anything with the expectation of recieving anything in return, such as buying clothing from a vendor, is not the payment a wager since it is chance the transfer server might deliver your intended purchase, is it not risk invloved with any transaction in sl, is this not "RANDOM".?

2) How can i BUY LAND now with any hopes of making profit since i am Paying lindens for something i hope to recieve more lindens in return for afterwards. Is this hope of profits not a form of gambling in this broad policy wording. Use of the word game still applies to everything in sl, since it is ALL a GAME. Is not my payment of lindens for the land i intend to profit from a wager under this policy? Now it is illeagal for me to buy land, hence prospecting on the chance of gains from sale of said lands? My heart goes out to all land barrons, and now former land barrons. Personally , i never considered your land dealings illeagal gambling , but under the new policy, buyer beware, you might be commiting illeagal gambling to purchase land if you ever intend on making profit from it. Common Laws do NOT cover virtual land dealings, which makes all land buying propspecting, hence a form of gambling in this new policy. How does this effect my tier, which i pay with hopes my land may be worth more then when i purchased it. Did i commit illeagal gambling to pay my tiers? The way the new policy is written makes every land owner having commited gambling because they were prospecting on its value and chance of profit on its future sale. < no one buys land hoping it will devalue in SL, no one! >

3) We pay over 100 people the moneys we collect each month in payouts for camping, management, events, classifieds, advertisements in other places, products and services we use regularly, not to mention the other content we finace with these funds bringing new things and ideas to SL. Making them usable by many for pleasure and general betterment of thier sl lives. We Do not own or opperate a casino in any form. We dont take the money we make out of SL. Yet Our xploder business < A.K. LindenXploders > is now considered illeagal? Never have we used or sold a Xploder with intent of it being used as a gambling casino game. Xploder are devices designed for entertainment and enrichment of SL . Much like a dance ball , it adds fun for people in club and event type enviroments. This new policy, which technically is worded as to include < tons of stuff not gambling > xploders , has currently made us close our store of high end xploders untill we maybe < if they ever decide to reply > we get a response and hopefully the ok for thier use in sl again.

4) We finace new projects on many subjects and in other businesses inside SL. How can i finance such endevors when my non gambling business is now shut down due to wording of a new non gambling policy? We have produced many items many people use in SL, Flexi Flowers and plants, Xploders, Furniture, Custom and prefab buildings, Scripted items, clothing, Advertising businesses, Club items, We sponcer an Art gallery, Camping chair systems, Lighting, Visual effects system, Fashion show event center, Mall management, property management, And even a GAMESHOW will will be streaming thruout SL soon < thou the gameshow is now on the gambling list cause we asked people to pay to play it, even thou we never made profits from its play> NOT ONE SINGLE BUSIENSS WE ARE INVLOVED IN WILL NOT GO UNAFFECTED by this new broad spectrum policy, and not a single businees will Improve due to it either.

5) Since my funding is now limited, to make sure i can cover my tiers, where do i take funds from, who do i pick to suffer first......campers? LL promised us months ago to eliminate traffic counts so camping would not be needed, but without it, sales will plummit sharply, people always go where they "think" everyone else is going, that will never ever change, so dont tell me if my products were good enough, i wouldnt need campers for business success in SL. I have watched many other good business fail cause traffic counts didnt bring in new customers enough to maintain themselves or grow. If not my campers to suffer since my funding is now limited, who else can i take funds from i currently give to? Classified ads? cant stop those, they are almost as essential as campers for new customers to find you. So who else can i reduce funding for to keep my tier paid, since i cant stop my campers or my advertisements, whats left... The only areas i can reduce costs is to NOT spend money developing new content which in the long run will kill my businesses as much as ending campers while traffic counts still matter would now. I guess the art gallery can try for Corporate sponsership to maintain themselves, but since they are NOT sponcering anything in SL or adding new content , they also are not interested in keeping an art gallery open and will most likey not sponcer them. We tried to gain corporate interest in some of our projects and barely got even a reply, much less a responce or interest in anything going on in sl. From what we have seen, the corporate entities are only interested in thier own show in sl, not adding content or developing new items. They dont even offer anyone a chance to create thier showing, they hire RL companys to create thier " entrance" into SL, and there it stops. So small companys like mine are creating things for pure content and improvement of sl play. not to sell you real life items. not to connect you to other web sites and take your real money. just to make the game more then it was, establishing new business standards and ehtics for people to follow and make sl the best it can be.Creating fun things for people to do. NOT to take your lindens and sell them for real money for real life profits.
Who beinfits from all this loss? Who gains from no new content being developed or released into sl for fear it will be illeagal tomorow and as described in the new policy, your name and personal information released to authorites if determined what ever you have is gambling, which is pretty much all of sl under this new policy wording. Personally i cant afford to risk my kids and my home to create new things. Can you?

6) As much as anyone else, we hope to survive this Tramatic grid wide loss of new content as many people for fear or lack of anything left fun to do will leave sl. If enough leave the trend will be set and people will follow all to easily away from sl. This policy could and should have been far more proffessional in its wording and applications on us all across the grid. The way this was handled is by far one of the worst blunders of bad public relalations for a paying customer base i have ever known to be, never in my life have i paid so much < tiers > to people who will treat me so badly as a paying customer, without reasonable regard to the implications of thier actions on others. And to think i DO NOT OWN A CASINO of anykind. and yet i am greatly effected as are we all!

7) For anyone who doesnt believe the broad spectrum effects this is having, please refer to the linden sales from your account, i have noted a LARGE increase in linden sales, a LARGE increase in islands for sale today alone, Huge amounts of land will go for sale, I fully expect the total islands in the game to drop by as much as 20 % in just 1 month, this may not go auctioned as SL will want to keep this from being in the "limelight" of everyone, so it will probly very quietly happen. I am sure this wont effect land barrons right? they wont tighten thier spending on other things either right? They will just be happy all thier virtual land will depreciate quickly , this will make them happy to come spend money on new content and help your game improve right? I am sure this will not effect any of you in any way negatively...right? Barely 24 hours and sales grid wide have gone down apreicably on all items, services, and even land sales, the only thing seemingly thriving is the amount of lindens for sale by players, who evidentally have no further use of them in game. I am just glad this wont effect us all in every way badly, there is some good news right....? land will be really cheap, but finding a store open to sell you a new designed outfit might be difficult to find. but you will have plenty of time to look right? since you wont be spending any of your time waisted gambling, and since that covers almost all activities in sl now, good luck finding anything fun to do. of course i suspect people will have plenty of time to be griefers now, but hey, dealing with greifers make developing new content easier for me right?

i fail to understand a few things i hope the community can clarify for me..... as it is, someone can greif me many times and still be in game < i know this personally becuase a serious greifer has done me wrong many times, reported many times and only suspended once for 7 days due to it, and is still in game, didnt even have to make an alt to keep playing! > but if something i make in sl is constituded under new policy as a gambling device of anykind, i can be banned, loose all in sl, AND have my personal information turned over to authorities in real life..... but being a terrorist in sl i guess is ok? how nice! Lucky me eh? I dont even allow weapons to be near me, yet others can shoot me, cage me, flame me, send me countless meters into the sky and i dont even see the report on the police blog..... my ban list is limited to 300 yet the number of alts a single person can make for free is currently endless. How nice of sl to provide me adequate policing of people who intentionally cause problem, use illeagaly scripted items, rez self replicating things in ways even build off cant stop, i guess i was expecting to much to have fun here or enjoy my second life.......... seems its for greifers fun and enjoyment and for me to PAY to be treated badly and unproffesionally while i try to make things fun or entertaining for many.

Thanks for lending me your thoughts, I look forward to reading your replies. I cant help but feel we are watching the demise of something that could have become great, not due to ending gambling, but due to how policy is implimented in this world called Secondlife.
HUGGS...................

Fear mongering isn't going to help anything.

You don't run a casino so no problem there, without a definite ok (which we're not likely to get) sploders do fit the new policy - although I personally think the fact that they're not on the list should be a clue - but that goes for running them, not selling them. You might find that noone is still going to buy one, but that's different.

Take a few deep breaths and don't do anything impulsive that's going to cause you more harm than a new policy that doesn't even affect you . There is currently no wild dumping of L$, and if LL can dump whole continents on the land market without making much of a dent, the tiny portion of land owned by ex-casinos certainly isn't going to even register.

Kudos to you Kitty if you actually waded thro reading that lot. I lost the will to live after the 1st paragraph. Hope I didnt miss anything important

The way this policy was implimented, will effect EVERYONE plain and simple. Its a horrible PR blunt. The adverse effects on the sl economy can be devistating. The Broad writing of the policy can be construded as almost anything is gambling if they choose to decide it is.
The risk of doing anything in sl just skyrocketed. Very scary indeed!

And this DOES affect me directly, even thou i do not own a casino, my gameshow was designed to charge people to have a chance to become a contestant as to cover the huge cost of running the show, < we give away alot of L's to contestants , up to 25,000 L > and now if i charge to play i am running a gambling game cause people can win lindens thru chance.

As for dumping of L's, i have been watching it since release of policy and there is a tremedous amount of extra L's being moved thru that sales system . As for land, i pray my fears are wrong, but in less then a few days, we will see, i also suggest watching the total number of islands in game come end of august compared to june, might be very interesting. especially if those relinquished islands are not auctioned . We will in fact see, but do not fool yourself into believing this does not affect me or everyone directly, it clearly does!

So, you have been running casinos and camping chairs and the rest of your business is in producing products FOR casinos and this is your "business" model? Good riddance, frankly.

Camping and casinos have made vast wastelands of huge stretches of the Grid.

And, can you not read? You wonder if buying and selling land for a profit is in violation of the new anti-gambling policy. READ the words, UNDERSTAND the words.

I am really SORRY you DID NOT read my post correctly.......... let me CLARIFY for you....... I DO NOT RUN ANY TYPE OF CASINO.. PERIOD, the only product i made and sold now considered Gambling are XPLODERS

And yes i did read clearly, and if you dont think land values in secondlife have any "chance" in them, then you simply have never purchased any of it with hopes of selling for a profit! You read the words and understand them! i already did!

I am always amazed at how some people make such remarks instead of reading it fully. TY Nack for you Unthoughtfull insight accusing me or running a casino which i have clearly stated i DID NOT DO. And if producing products like microphone shouters for hosts at events, High class builds for shows and events, and classy stores is somehow now construded as a casino developement then i a truely sorry you are to unknowledged to know the differance.

I sincerly ask all others who read this posting to be more thoughtfull in how they replay, seems ignorance has already been covered by someone else.

Three words: New Business Model.

Crap customer service.

The moral of the story here is if you are foolish enough to invest big money into a platform that will overnight run a carving knife through your business model and not give a damn about the consequences, then more fool you.

Are you saying that LL had some real choice here? They avoided doing this for as long as they could, and now have to avoid liability.

You can easily adapt with a new business model. Seriously, it's a pain in the butt but it's also not the end of the world.

Back when "copybot" was the mass freekout of the day, I made plans for a new business model that would function in a world where copying prims and textures was easy peasy. (The model now safely tucked away for future use should things change on me.)

The wold will rend your business model without ever giving you glance #1, this has been true since day one. Your only real choice is to be adaptable (unless you happen to wield gargantuan economic power, of course).

*shakes his head, amazed* There is no random number generator determining the "winner" of a land sale. Stop with your "sky is falling" panic. If your business isn't in the business of supplying casino's, then you've nothing to worry about at all, now do you?

Are we all sure sploders are on the "banned" list of gambling devices? I haven't logged on since Wednesday when the blog was posted so i don't if my favorite club has removed it's sploder. But, if has been removed then I can see why the owners would do so.......err on the side of caution. However, I've seen a few threads stating the sploders have been removed.........who removed them? The owners trying to safe until a clarification comes down? Or Linden Labs because they are definitely on the list? I don't know...........and I think no one here knows either.

I will admit the blog was rather poorly written with vague definitions of what constitutes "wagering" in SL. But reasonable people know what is being banned. Arguments stating that "investing" in land could be construed as a wager is nothing short of ridiculous. It's taking the intent of the new policy far beyond the reasonable limits. It's "stirring the pot", so to speak.

I think we'll find out soon what is and what is not acceptable in SL as far as sploders, tringo, slingo etc, etc. I actually think they well be allowed. But then the whiners will jump up and shout that casinos should also be allowed. Sheese.........it never ends, does it?

The rule was pretty clear. Any use of a random generator to determine winners of a pot of money. 'Sploders certainly qualify. They ARE gambling, after all. You couldn't run such an operation at a bar in real life unless you live in a pretty liberal area and had a gambling license to boot.

The only benefit of 'Sploders', that I could see was, it was an easy inexpensive way for newbs to make a few $L.

Now we're likely to see an increase in camping.

I'd rather have 10 main AV's putting money in the 'Sploder, than 30 Alts sitting motionless camping.

Sploders were always just clean "fun" for me. Not a big money maker.

Guess time will tell how it works out.

Note: I dont blame LL for any of this. If anything, the fault should lie on the US Goverment and their greed.

Doesn't affect me. I sell anything, I barely buy anything.

But you know what would effect EVERYONE even more?

If LL had their servers seized by the FBI, or banks were forbidden to conduct buisnes with them. Would you prefer that?

1) As a former CEO of a successfull real firm, My point is simple yet missed by most who read my thoughts........ Linden Labs Implimenting non gambling is fine, thier chosen method and broad writing of said policy is very unproffessional.

2) as far as it not affecting someone, how is it when fewer people produce things to do in secondlife, hence adding content for all/some to enjoy, dont do this anymore? That effect alone will affect everyone, even if you dont buy or sell anything ever.

3) my business plans have been designed with producing good content in mind, if i am paying so much in tiers, wasnt running a casino, selling casino games, or providing casino anything < ok maybe my xploders or our microphone is used there, but was designed for all to use everywhere > AND i am treated in such unproffessional ways by people i pay to play sl, Why should i continue to spend my time producing things in sl for content, when i could spend such time developing things to make a quick buck and sell lindens and take the money out of the game? Since placing it all back in sl , as we have done, will only lead to being treated unproffessionally by LL. This is not something i enjoy even thinking about. But seriously, the last person i gave so much time and money to who screwed me over and treated me so badly is now my EX!


Ending gambling treating me badly?...not really, ... Implimenting policy without clarifycation when it affects a great deal beyond its intent, ..is treating me and all paying sl players badly! And lets face it, the way it is written, despite any intent, if i buy land sell it for a profit because by chance it went up in value, i can be banned, loose all in sl, and have my real life identy and info provided to authorities..... i seriously doubt this was ever thier intent, but it IS how it is written and IS entirerly up to them to say what is and is not "within new policy ", i have a family, i personally cant risk loosing anything in my rl over poorly written policy changes in SL. << all we need now is someone from Linden labs to use this policy change for personal vengance or to screw someone over just because they are having a bad day and hiding behind the wording of this policy to do so! and anyone who says it cant happen is either a fool or an idiot, happens in Rl everyday! With this new policy, it most certainly will here, NOT worth the risk to my family >>

That's an interesting, if scary, prediction. Hopefully, any increase in regular businesses using camping chairs, will be mitigated by the loss of the gambling industry - which favoured (and abused) them most of all.

Ami, with land sales there is no winner determined by a random process, so this arumentation is pointless, really.

And as a business person in RL, like you said you are, you should know the basic rule. If something, you provide, becomes illegal you have to take it from the market and adapt to the new situation by finding a new business concept. All whinning is useless, start adapting again like you did before, because that is what really makes you a business person.

It is sad, that sploders fall under the terms, because they are not really a source of big wins or losses. But there are are actually wins and losses determined by a random game process; so these are gambling machines.

All complains do not help here. LL needs to stick to laws like all others or they would experience that their business concept would be stopped pretty fast by the authorities. I dont blame LL for doing this, even it will effect all business persons in SL, but LL had no other choice.

I'll bet you ten bucks that some of the policy on xploders will be made by an employee that doesn't know what a xploder is.

ditto, whatever the op had to say was totally lost

altho im shure its something along the lines of

"OMFG THE WORLD IS COMMING TO AN END 75% OF SL WILL LEAVE BY MONDAY,BUYING CORN AT THE MARKET IS ILLEGAL!!"

whatever, adapt and survive or go away already

Ami,

Where in the new Policy does it mention anything about Land Sales? I am sorry to say this but you are talking total and utter rubbish!

You do not and cannot represent all SL players so the quote "is treating me and all paying sl players badly!", is your opinion, if SL was so bad then the forums would be awash with posts relating to misery of others, but hey, guess what, its not!

And another point, some months ago SL ran a blog regarding Casino's and stoped all advertising and Classifieds relating to them, that was the first warning for all Casino owners.

Like any professional company would do, LL had taken the time to seek professional and legal advice and made their decision to ban all forms of casino or randon number generating games etc.

Overall, by implementing this new policy it protects a lot of SL players from losing what could be potentially thousands if not millions of Dollars if SL was seized by the local authorities for condoning such activities.

For the owners of Casinos and related stuff, yes I feel sorry for them and their losses, but there are always alternatives, one just has to be creative and move on.

So my answer to you, is simple "read the Policy properly, adapt, be inventive and creative or quite simply "Put up or Shut Up!

Larrie......
The new policy clearly states, any payment you make, which involves chance or random number generation AND you can recieve lindens or real life compensation in return IS gambling
All sl land purchases are PROSPECTUS, Virtual land has no value in real life, AND since there is CHANCE involved you can make a profit < recieve lindens as compensation > it could easily be interpeted , if so desired, despite any intent , as GAMBLING as it is written.

my point was simple, and it does affect the entire grid, this type of broadly written policy That CAN be, at thier desire, Deemed almost anything gambling, is just wrong and unproffesional. It should have been very clear in what is and what is NOT to be considered gambling.

And as to put up or shut up, gladly, i am still here "putting up" and trying to continue on adapting, but as i logged in, i did happen to notice almost 6500 less people online versus the same time of day last weekend, guess they "shut up" instead........and left. lets see percentage wise thats what 20% of the online populous for this time of day, no longer here, the numbers speak for themselves even if they didnt post a ton of forums entries! I only wonder what content and stores and places went with them all, surely it wasnt just casinos, and since no where near that many owned casinos, i wonder why other non casino people left......just a thought, but maybe they didnt like being treated so unproffesionally either. < by the way land prices are down alot also, just an observation, no worries right? >

Oh, thank god. More room for the rest of us without worthless waste of space casino campers.

Except for that whole pesky problem that it doesn't involve random chance, no matter how much you claim otherwise.



In the illogical land of pretend and make-believe, perhaps.



Your one sampling is nowhere near reasonably indicative of anything.

My appologies.........

I posted a statement regarding my feelings on policy change with implications far beyond its suppossed intended meaning, only pointing out how it can be misused and how it affects everyone.

From the responses i am reading, those that understand this point have yet to respond and probly wont now. TY all for reading it anyway.

*boggles* The silent legions who agree with you?

Here's a question for you. Why do you care if gambling is outlawed, if you don't, yourself, own a gambling oriented business?