"Click here to chat"

what is the deal with the click here to chat messages . GET RID OF THEM . a 3 year old knows how to type in a frigging box without being told thats where they are suppose to chat . Like you guys had no bugs anything to fix so you fdecided to see how you can annoy people instead . grrrrrrrrrrrrr

Agreed.

I don't like left clicking on the chat button to enter and exit chat. Why can't I just use the keyboard like I used to ba able to. this update is frustrating me.

It is rather annoying, isn't it?

I'd like a pair of preferences options:

[x] Keep chat bar in "tab" sequence on focussed window.
  [x] Keep focus on chat bar when opening or selecting a window.

That way the only time focus left chat would be when you explicitly focussed on another window *and* either selected a text box in that window OR tabbed out of the chat bar into the window.

I can't imagine why anyone would complain about this. It's a nice way to let you know when the text box has lost focus. It should have been available from day one. What possible harm is it doing?

It's bad design.
Anytime you need to use words to describe something instructional wise in a user interface, it's bad (pop out the batteries in something, does it say "inster batteries with the button facing left"? No, it shows a little picture).
The cursor is the visual clue of where the focus is. If they want to do something to denote no focus, they could grey it out a little. MUCH clearer and isn't annoying to read. And they do it anyway, it's a shade or two darker than the focused bar (it they made that white, there'd be no problems).
No need for "push" and "pull" on doors if the designers would just get a clue and put in the right kinds of handles: a short vertical one is great for PULLing and a long horizontal one is great for PUSHing (even better is a metal plate on the push edge of the door, esspecially when the designer hides the hinges for asthetics).

The problem is not that the message is there.

The problem is that the text box is losing focus when it shouldn't be.

If it wasn't, you wouldn't need the message.

I wouldn't agre this is something that's "always bad" or "always good". Words are useful and good when they can convey the meaning more clear than the icons, and this is very often the case. This is why you have actual words in about any control menu of almost any application, rather than cute little images than make you spend time trying to figure out "what the author had on mind" ... or why any well written program supplies text equivalent of icons your mouse happens to be over on the status bar or in the tooltip.

"click here to chat/instant message" is quite logical in the UI that already has "type here to search" in the text field of the inventory window. For that matter even programs like IE show "type here to search the web" tooltips when you put mouse over text fields that have no clear label by default. And it's seriously not something to bitch over -- yes it may make you feel you are treated like a moron that needs to be told obvious things... but that's because large part of the users *do* need to be told these things.

Umm, shouldn't it say "Click here or press Control Tab to chat?" They left out Control Tab.

"Chat" is sort of vague, isn't it? How are people supposed to know how to chat?

I guess it should have tooltip help for the word chat that explains what keys and fingers, applying force, sequence, left and right, up and down, self, other, environment, noun, verb, process, structure and other chat related words are.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
bad Sue bad bad bad bad

but yeah, it does make ya wonder how many people actually asked how do you chat........

I guess since "chat" is generic human activity while "type in this box to chat" is related specifically to use of SL client UI, it actually makes sense that this very SL client UI tries to explain how to use itself.

Reductio ad absurdum works both ways. If the UI is not expected to provide the user with hints how to use it, perhaps the developers can skip some of the work and ship the client with unlabeled preference controls, empty control menus and blank dialog boxes. After all, it's reasonable to expect from people to know how to use the software from the get-go.

I find it annoying, too. It makes me think, when I glance at it, that I have started to say something and forgotten to finish it.

I think people know to click on the chat boxes, in chat and in IM's, don't they?

coco

I like how the one function that EVERYONE uses the most frequently, Chat, now has absolutely no quick-focus keyboard shortcut. Who made this decision? oO

They should just add a checkbox in preferrences to turn these tips off, like you can with bubble chat text.

The message doesn't say "Type here...", the message says "Click here...". Clicking in the box doesn't produce any chat, it just moves the keyboard focus into the box, so the message is inaccurate. There are other methods of moving the focus into the box; one can press the alt key down and while still holding it down press the W key and then the C key; or one can press Control Tab until the focus moves to the chat box. So a more accurate, non-mouse-centric form of the message might be "Click here, or press the alt key and while holding it down press W and then C, or press the Control key and while holding it down press the Tab key until the orange highlight appears around the box where this message is. Then press letters on the keyboard in a sequence to spell the words you want to say. When you are ready to send your chat message, press enter or control enter, or click the say button or the shout button."

There are methods of conveying how to use an interface other than having instructions plastered all over it. A help file with a picture and labels explaining it is one approach, help files that have pictures with help that popup when the cursor passes over them is another. Neither of those approaches clutter the interface.

I do in fact want an interface with drastically reduced labels, I have stated my preference in these forums several times for a sleek edit control that resembles the property bar in Photopaint. On-screen help information for such controls are commonly provided as tooltips, which are toggleable, or in a small bar of help information at the bottom of the screen, toggleable, of course, which allows context sensitive help for every aspect of the interface to appear without causing interface clutter. Another approach in common use is the "?" icon, click on it, then on the part of the interface you want to know about.

If that message enhances your enjoyment of SL that's nice, but it detracts from my enjoyment, I don't need it, I don't want it, and I would like to be able to make it not ever be there.

Perhaps I've missed something...

chat works exactly how it has always worked for me.

lets see:
1. I hit enter and the chat field gets focus
2. I type my chat text and hit enter
3. Since I set me preferences "Enter closes chat" the chat bar loses focus after I have completed my text entry and hit enter in step 2.

I do this over and over again all day.

I have been doing that for nearly 3 years. It seems to be the same as always.

How do you do it?

Here's how chat has traditionally worked for me:

1. I start typing, and chat goes to the chat bar.

No matter what other windows are open, or where the focus is, so long as no other text entry box is active, text goes to the chat bar.

Here's what started happening a few releases back:

1. I start typing
2. I start jumping around, because the chat window has decided to close, or
3. The prim I'm editing suddenly changes, because it's decided to treat keystrokes as commands in that window, or
4. Folders start opening in my inventory, or
5. A window opens and I start typing in that, or
6. Nothing happens at all.

What happens depends on which release we're talking about, but things HAD been getting better. Up until now...

Yes, and good luck fitting all that into the chat input line. Which is something both you and i realize, and you're simply being a smartass about it, i hope.

The 'press enter to say or ctrl+enter to shout' does appear as tooltip when you hover the mouse over the chat input line, btw. And the detailed instructions how 'exactly' to chat are listed in the Help file under Basic Help -> Communication with others. So yes, they have these areas covered


It makes no difference to me either way. I don't personally need it, but i figure it can be helpful for some people with less experience. And if SL client is currently so great that the only things worth bitching about is a bit of hint text in some input control or the colour of focus rectangle.... then it's much better than i thought it was, i guess.

Btw, you can remove that text if it indeed annoys you so much. In the file

..\skins\xui\en-us\panel_chat_bar.xml

the following bit:

<line_editor bevel_style="in" border_style="line" border_thickness="1" bottom="-26"
enabled="true" follows="left|right|bottom" font="SansSerif"
handle_edit_keys_directly="false" height="24" hidden="false"
label="Click here to chat." left="107" max_length="254"
mouse_opaque="true" name="Chat Editor" select_all_on_focus_received="false"
select_on_focus="false" tab_group="1"
tool_tip="Press Enter to say, Ctrl-Enter to shout." width="100" />

... is responsible for that hint text. Erase it or change as you see fit.

Very true. Sometimes it is good, but in this case, it should be one of those things in a mouse-hover tooltip, not always visible. With it just blank it's faily obvious that it is a text entry feild. Type in it hit enter, omg, I know what it does, yet I still have the reminder text. It's like picking up the telephone and listening and instead of a dial tone you hear a voice that says, "Dial a number to talk...dial a number to talk..."

No one needs it more than once, so it shouldn't be something that is read every minute of every use (and our minds are such that reading happens automatically when we view text, try looking at a word that you don't already know what it reads and NOT read it).

I'll also agree that little icons aren't the best solution sometimes (like in the joke about a telepathically controled version of windows, "Who's idea was it that thinking of their dog would open My Computer?" Vista's heading there, they've apparently gotten rid of the menus entirely), but we still use icons, as "a picture is worth a thousand words." The chat bar itself is an icon, it means "text goes here" and that's what the tip is trying to say. Think of how many iconographics you encounter and understand in your daily life. How many of them did you ever need an explanation of (verbally or in text)? I.E. traffic lights. How many of them did you understand on your first encounter without needing to observe another? I.E. the little sticker on a lawnmower telling you not to stick your fingers in it.

I've been using SL much like the UI from any of the MMOs I play. I hit Enter to bring up the chat entry field, type in what I want to say, and when I hit Enter again to send it, the field goes away. I really think you're going to see SL sticking with a method like this, since it is an accepted standard in MMOs. With 10s of millions of MMO players in the world, it's going to be the standard.

Not sure if this fits into this thread:

I am a bit annoyed at the Say and Shout buttons blinking in and out when we chat.

I keep catching them go from being active to non active and it is kind of annoying as I see it from the corner of my eye. Line after line of chat, it happens, I liked it when they just stayed active, it wasn't as distracting during a long conversation.

The majority of MMOs are more versatile than you imply, and most of them have official or 'backdoored' mechanisms for modifying the user interface. SL doesn't have that, but it does at least pay occasional attention to its user base and they *haven't* stuck with this method.

Oooh, I hadn't noticed that. YES, that's annoying, and now you've brought it to my attention I can't stop seeing it.

(bastard )

I was aware of that, as shown most recently in my thread Eliminating Tooltips .

Gee, maybe advice as to how to eliminate or change the tooltips by editing XML files should be included in the tooltip text, I'm sure that is an aspect of SL interface use that most people would not be familiar with.

The messages embedded in the text entry fields are not quite the same as tooltips, they are messages pertaining to where the focus currently isn't.

I can hardly stand to move my cursor around theSL screen now, tooltips that tell me the Build button is for building, a non-stop barrage of reminders that Control [ and Control ] will move to the next tab, mouseover glow that reduces the contrast of the item it is is adding glow to, and then, no, please no... the cone of context .... aighh!!!

By the way, I am never a smart alec. I have no sense of humor. Everything I say should always be taken totally seriously and completely literally.