Ban Lines and Sim Crossing

Getting rid of scripts will allow flying to return. If they want "privacy" they set their land to limited access. Those that have griefer problems can just ban them. For the most part I could care less if banned. If I am allowed overflight, it does not matter to me if can not see their builds. After this all I will have to worry about is sim crossing problems A script that says leave is no problem, one that dismounts me is griefing.

True. What I was trying to say is that the scripts may hang around with a slightly different purpose than they have now. We don't want to implement some land behaviour that eliminates an entire market of products. What I'm saying is a divide and conquer--let the ban option be very "damaging" (i.e. something pwerful and not often needed) and let the scripts do less damaging things.
If people want privacy, they can turn off access and ping, they have privacy (as it'll effectivley opperate as 'ban all'). The security drone they have they can then set that to keep out the people on the access list that they don't want in *right now.* Got 15 people who when you've got "allow access to X,Y,Z" turned on are allowed in, but you want a private cuddle with your partner no ifs and or buts, then the script can do the rest.

Instead of enforcing what the ban lines already do, make the bans more effective and let the scripts worry about lesser problem avatars.

I was talking about the proposal someone made (go back a few messages) for having access controlled parcels simply not render objects or avatars inside them for agents not permitted access, and vice versa for agents inside the parcel and objects owned by agents who don't have access.

Empty land.
Indeed, that's one of the huge advantages to the scheme!

This must apply not just to "banned" avatars, but to anyone who isn't in the access list for the parcel.
Why not? Security scripts are a (barely) necessary evil, and it's far better to make them unnecessary than to permit the evil to continue.

The same argument was made by some people who made "anti push" devices when push was made option on parcels, and it was no more appropriate there.

It'd be like you and the contents of the land parcel are in different dimensions. You can't see or interact with them, they can't see or interact with you. It'd be the ultimate in privacy. And people without access wouldn't have to worry about walking into invisible objects because they're not invisible, they're simply not there.

This gets suggested all the time but I very, very much doubt that SL is set up to allow bits of the grid within a sim to be excluded from what the client sees.

Why are they so bad? Bad for the owner or for everyone else? I don't have any, so can't speak from the owner's side, but I'd much rather have a neighbor with security scripts than one with ban lines. Ban lines are simply awful. I can't help but dislike a neighbor who uses them, no matter how valid their reasons may seem to them. What a horrible way to create a new world - by fencing it off piece by piece with little barriers that scream "Mine! No one else allowed!"

It is bad to not discover a ban zone until you are 10 meters from the edge. It makes for difficult manuvering. I don't think that kind of change to accomplish what you are talking about is a simple as it sounds. It would be like when you first TP to a sim and very little has rezed yet. But if you fly around you can still bump into an object even though it has not yet been visualy rendered. To accomplish what you are talking you would also need to make everything, (including avatrs), within the ban area phantoms and invisable. Also what would the ppl inside of the ban area see when you approch them? Would you suddenly dissapper from their view upon entering the area? I don't think they would want to be able to see a vehicle approch and pass right through them whill they are cuddling (or something) in bed.
(edit add here)
Also what about sounds and bling from the banned ppl. You would have to mute that when they enter the ban area.


I think the easyest answer would be to replace the ban's barrier texture with what looks like tinted glass. If you are on the inside of the ban area you would not see this tinted wall, just as it is now with the current texture. It would have the property to be visible either at any distance or when you are within 100 meters of it to give you plenty of stopping distance.

Ban lines i can live with (for now) but its very annoying to cross a sim while teleporting and loose your ride. So if anyone finds a lost dragon please return to me. SL occassionally returns attachments (like hair) if u loose it while crossing or tping but does this really need to happen in the first place. Most embarrassing I think is the odd time I have tp'd and found my av half naked on the a pg sim. This indeed makes a few ppl uncomfortable - myself included.

SL didn't used to be set up to allow bits of a sim to not be rendered if they were hidden by another object. Now it is. The fact that "SL isn't set up to..." do a thing isn't an argument against doing it.

If you mean "it would be very hard for LL to implement this", well, I'm not at all sure of that. Second Life already knows the permissions of every object in the sim, and the owner, because it needs to apply this information to enforce the rights system. Both the sim and the client knows the ownership and access lists for parcels, because both enforce the access controls. And SL already selects what the user knows about based on the distance of the agent from the object. The sim also performs bounds checking on every object in the sim to determine what objects to share with neighboring sims.

So almost everything that's needed to implement this is being done, one way or another, by the sim. I don't believe it would be any harder for LL than what they're currently doing.

Both.

There's a huge variety of security scripts out there, and the best known (and allegedly the best) allow the owner to break the TOS wih impunity, are horribly buggy (I've had them do things like unseat me and THEN give me 15s to get off the land... which isn't time enough to get my plane... which is truly daft), are fairly expensive, and some have really heavy second-level restrictions implemented by the vendor... to the point where one vendor was recently seen complaining that if the switch to mono forces scripts to be recompiled his security orbs woudl ALL break.

It's like antivirus software, the whole product category seems to encourage abusive behaviour from the vendors and both costomers and third parties are victims.

I've got a neighbor with both.

They wouldn't see you if you didn't have access to the parcel they were in. They wouldn't see you, see your chat, hear your sounds, see your particles, or see objects you rezzed. It would be a completely symmetrical situation.

We have preferences for draw distance, why not for draw ban lines distance?

The ban zones are so high now that it doesn't matter... when they were 40m or 20m or whatever they used to be, normal flying height took you over them. Now you fly up, run into them, fly up more, and go along fine until you go over a hill and you're running into them again. They just need to go away and be replaced by some real privacy scheme.

Why not show the ban lines (at any distance) on the minimap, either as a red outline around banned areas or as red shading over areas you can't access?

Seems like that would let one plan ahead to avoid cranky landowners without bathing the landscape in angry red text.

I like that idea. I suguest you propose it on the feature vote page, or what ever it is called.

The vote page is a sick joke and I dont like the mini map as it is useless.

Why not just allowing residents who want the feature to be able to see the ban lines at draw distance? 10 meters is too short for flying avatars never mine Aircraft or even Tarns!

I didnt bother to read through this intire thread, so I'll take the slap in the chops if this has been brought up already.

I would find it usefull as Im flying, boating around sl, if these no entry areas were highlighted in red (or some standout color) both on the world map, and the mini map. I always have the mini map up when traveling about, and this would allow me to circumnavigate these hazards, and their effects on my game play.

that's a good idea, but it doesn't address the problem that the ban lines don't actually do much to provide protection from harassment, they can't be seen across sim boundaries, and they do nothing for privacy.

I would far rather NOT see this improvement if there was any chanceof LL providing real privacy tools. Because sure as god made little apples they'd keep the red lines on the mini map after they were no longer useful, hilighting privacy zones for nosey parkers.

But given that the chances of that are slim, OK. It's a decent workaround.

Did you read the proposal? Showing ban lines on the mini map would give you a sims-distance warning.

I do not like the mini map. would rather see them on the big screen.

The easiest way to do this would be to use a version of occlusion culling, and fix the ban lines so they work to hide anything inside them. It's like a mix of occlusion culling and invisi-prims.

I think they could do it, it's their program after all.

The only problem with that is alt-panning inside them would allow someone to see into the parcel.

A bigger problem is that it would leave the barriers in place.