Ban Lines and Sim Crossing

The current ban lines implementation on sim crossing is pretty bad. There's no way to see them till you hit them and AFAIK there is no altitude limit on them. The result is you wind up getting bounced around and if you are in a vehicle, you get unseated and lose it.

An immediate fix would be to impose the same altitude limits as intra-sim.

A very nice new feature would be to have a way to detect banned land from inside LSL so vehicles could warn pilots of what was ahead.

The better sim crossing with the new release almost makes vehicles work acceptably, but the sim crossing ban lines kill their usefullness.

What better sim crossing with the new release?

For the past few releases I've had occasional "can't teleport" bounces on crossing sim boundaries, and they're still going on. Also, they seem to have mad prims re-rez as you go into a new region so that your attached prims and the prims of the vehicle you're on vanish and reappear as you cross the grid. This is, of course, not good at all for flying! It even happens in normal unassisted flight, let alone in a plane!

Desmond Shang has a vehicile that crosses sims very well. It is a steam trolley of some sort. Pardon me Shang San for forgetting its name. Unlike the Lindens SLRR which does everthing at sim crossings, his is very steady. I wonder how this is possible? Would this work with other types of vehiciles?

For what it's worth, ban lines and sim crossing seems better than before... either my client or the entire sim was crashing when I tried to move north into sim with a ban line right up against the boundary.

What I dont like is ban or no entry lines on a sim crossing. They are inpossible to see and makes even walking a problem. I dont like running into these lines as they distrub my wa. What is so hard about allowing residents that wish to see ban lines at the limit of the draw distance do this? It would be a very nice function.

As long as it's an option.

I DON'T want ugly ban lines visible half a sim away.

I do not see why this can not happen. It is our choice to see lots of things, boundry lines and ownership of the land, etc.

Sims already exchange information about a lot of things, and they seem to have just started working on an improvement here. There's no reason they can't "project" the normal ban-lines on the "outside" of the virtual parcel beyond the sim edge.

How about no ban lines. They're nasty, ugly, unneighborly things. Or if people really need them, could you make them pretty on the outside but ugly on the inside, and visible to the owner at any distance! Then people would be less likely to stick them up by default (as if I wanted to jump in their hot tub anyway =/)

we should not see ban lines at all... the land should just be offline to baned ppl
all we should see is empty land thay we can move thru.
and the owner would not see the baned ppl. this is not rocket science
its just like a firewall that blocks data....
-LW

Ooh interesting idea. The only problem is that then even I'd be tempted to turn it on. A cloaking device is too fun to resist.

I was thinking about RL after writing and how it's very rare to have a way to lock people out of your backyard. We rely mostly on trust and people's sense of personal space. If we really want to keep people out we use guard dogs and security devices.

In SL, a lot of people don't have the same sense of personal space, but we could still use "guard dogs". I once got chased out of a underwater building by some daleks. And my neighbor on the other side has an auto-teleporting security device. Both much cooler than ban lines.

Yah, having avatars in, and objects rooted in, an access-controlled space simply not offered to the client for any users without access to the space, and vice versa for avatars and for objects owned by people without access, would be great. That would pretty much eliminate the need for skyboxes: you could slice off a portion of your parcel (say, just enough to cover the inside of your house) and cover it with a roof rooted *outside* the protection area, and nobody would ever need to know it was there (even if they flew over) but nobody could see inside or effect you inside.

I've said it many times now, but it bears repeating.
Lets replace the ban line system entirely - with one based on the simple principle of "if you can't access a parcel you should not be able to see or interact with its contents".
Once that idea takes root, we will not need to stop people being in parcels (what's the fun of travelling to a parcel that is just a blank space where you can't see anyone and they can't see you?)..... and thus, ban lines will become redundant.

It'd be prettier (end ban lines!)
It'd be more secure (end the ability to pan the camera around and see what is in space you are banned from!).

It'd be better in every way.

Make it the default for all parcels that use ban/access lines - and then even fliers win because they *never* bounce off another ban line again - they can fly unimpeded too...

Personally, I think ban lines should be fully visable. there is nothing worse than trying to fly and getting bounced by lines that only appear the split second before you crash into them. If everybody could see them as clearly as the buildings, maybe they would be less tempted to turn on their own.

I scripted the vehicle in question, and it handles sim crossings by simply moving very slowly. It is also non-physical. A vehicle that moved very slowly, non-physically, across sim boundaries should similarly be okay, but that's not suitable for most vehicles unfortunately.

Ummmm first off this could create potential problems...... The first being that the objects are still there just not visible. This can be a problem. I played on a private lineage 2 server yeah dont get on me about that but..... When they upgrade Chronicles sometimes they would make it look a certain way but the terrain and objects are still in the server so you would end up smacking into an invisible object and getting stuck which sucked. It wouldnt be more secure in fact it'd be less secure and require the sims to pull more resources then it would require for them to see it cuz the objects would still load and then have to be made unable to be seen/interacted with. It'd be prettier is about it but ban lines are a good thing at the same time as being bad.

Yes, that's the Caledon trolley, Ordinal scripted it and it's really not mine, more of a community landmark sort of thing. Brilliantly done, yes?

I have some clue to how it works, but I'll leave the details to Ordinal.

I really like that idea Just make it identifiable somehow, by say, applying a special texture to the ground to make it clear enough that you're banned and not that it just happens to be empty.

I think having an icon on the menu bar would be better. There's no reason to advertise "access controlled" zones if they don't affect the user directly.

I really don't get why they implemented this. When it first popped up in the preview many revision it bugged the crap out of me. Especially when some one owns a large section of land on a boader which makes it impossible to cross a region. Personally I now like the old way when you hit the boarder you would just gently go floating arcross the sim with no control. At least you where able to cross the sim.

Plus it works like a one way door. If you are over the Parcel with no entry then cross over into another sim you can go back the same way you came. You end up bounceing around till you can find a hole to go thru. This was as good of an idea as the Red Hot Poker Lollypop.

How about making the No Entry Lines active only when the owner or people that have access are on the land. Then they have their privacy. Hopefully this will cut down "Passive Aggressive griefing".

I would vote for this one if you made it a vote.

I would just like to know where these ban lines are without walking or flying into them. I say that Second Life keeps going down hill.
I am still puzzling over the meaning of your message.

What he means is that the zones you are banned from wouldn't be rendered and if you're standing in/floating through one you wouldn't know it was empty land or land you are banned from except for a tiny icon like the "damage enabled land" icon.

How would this work? Are you still crossing their land? Is their land removed from "normal" space or is the not allowed avatar? What would this look like? Empty land or a sim that is offline?
If what you say is true their would be no need for security scripts, after all you can removed not allowed avatars from any interaction with your land, objects and allowed avatars anything else would be greifing.

I think the idea is that the avatar's point of view (pov) is that anything on that land is in a removed space and to the people on that land's pov is that the banned avatar is in a removed space.

The parcel would not exactly appear as offline, but more like an empty sim appears--just blank land.

And there would still probably be security scripts/bots as some people would prefer them. You'd only ban the serious griefers, not the "this person was bugging some people and I asked him to leave and he did." I guess the security orbs would be for light-ban and the ban option for "never come back ever, and I reported him for abuse" heavy-ban.

Right now ban options are a light switch (two of them really, ban and allow, but both opperate on the same principle): either on or off. No, "keep your eye on him" grey area. And even with this, that's all we have, we can force him off the land, but he can still annoy us: it's not good enough. Implement a non-render type of ban and you get three options: allow, off your plot (enforced by scripts), and GONE.