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Why does SL keep going backwards? |
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Susanne Pascale
Registered User
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 371
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04-30-2007 10:22
Coco?? Since you own alot more land than I do, why don't you host the get together..I will certainly help. Gosh we are getting some really comments in theis thread!!
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Vale Vieria
The Devil Herself
Join date: 8 Feb 2007
Posts: 228
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04-30-2007 10:33
Coco?? Since you own alot more land than I do, why don't you host the get together..I will certainly help. Gosh we are getting some really comments in theis thread!! Oooooh, if we have a get together can I host it??? ![]() I've got a whole little village on a private island, bucket loads of spare prims for balloons and cake and the traffic isn't going to do me any harm at all ![]() Vale _____________________
Visit the Vale Boutique in SL: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Aftershock/113.203/32.2358
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Allana Dion
Registered User
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Posts: 1,230
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04-30-2007 10:54
There is one thing people are doing to let the Lindens know we are still not happy, since they've now cut off most other means of communicating with them.
http://www.projectopenletter.com/ _____________________
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Susanne Pascale
Registered User
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 371
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04-30-2007 11:55
Project open letter is great!! Anshe Chung and Aimee weber have both signed it. LL may not listen to US, but I think they will listen to them! Hoo ray for Rueters for publishing it too!!
For what little its worth, I signed it. As for the get together, Vale and coco? why dont you two decide who will host it? I willhelp if I can. best times for me are after around 7:00 pm SL time. |
Gillian Waldman
Buttercup
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 697
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04-30-2007 12:01
I signed it too. I support the effort to communicate in a mature, ordered way.
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http://www.deuxlooks.com/
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Strife Onizuka
Moonchild
![]() Join date: 3 Mar 2004
Posts: 5,887
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04-30-2007 12:13
*moves*
_____________________
Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river. - Cyril Connolly Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence. - James Nachtwey |
Inigo Chamerberlin
Registered User
![]() Join date: 13 May 2006
Posts: 448
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04-30-2007 12:19
LL will find it only TOO easy to discredit the signatures.
They are unverified, it's possible to enter any AV's name, or even a non-existent one. This has already happened. This could have been avoided very easily by the standard 'forum signup' technique of requiring a valid eMail address, sending an eMail with a 'verification' link, then appending the eMail to the matching AV name - ONLY in the final version to be forwarded to Linden Lab - NOT on the public version of the list, thus preserving privacy. However, this wasn't done. Why? Cout the answer be 'plausible deniability'? As in 'Gee Philip, I didn't sign that, someone else trying to make trouble must have... Please don't drop me from the developer list/your friends list/the Linden Fanboyz list...' Call me a cynic - but |
Osprey Therian
I want capslocklock
![]() Join date: 6 Jul 2004
Posts: 5,049
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05-02-2007 15:30
Call me a cynic - but I think you need to go for a nice hike in the woods. _____________________
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Osprey Therian
I want capslocklock
![]() Join date: 6 Jul 2004
Posts: 5,049
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05-02-2007 15:32
Also, SL is not going backwards.
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
![]() Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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05-02-2007 15:47
Also, SL is not going backwards. Sideways perhaps, maybe even at a 30 degree angle.............. _____________________
Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |
Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
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05-02-2007 18:35
Dnate - that is Linden apologist nonsense and you know it. There HAVE been times in the past when SL and the Client have worked far better than now - remember just before 1.7? Things were pretty good then. Sure, we didn't have a couple of shiny features we now have, sometimes, when they work. . Lol you obviously don't remember how bad October - December was. SL has been running smoother in the last few months than ever for me on the opposite side of the planet on a mid spec games machine, near 12months old. Perhaps you are too close. People can tell us Logins are totally bjorked and I can still login 3 AV's at once and teleport freely. SL did run bad for me when I first joined and it turned out to be my ADSL upgrade fixed the problem. I get all the login/TP problems if I run SL on diallup. If it SL good continually for some and continually bad for others logical people would look at the differences. If the same people have had bad running of SL continually for 6 months it's got to mean somethings up with their system or ISP. You can ring your ISP and they will tell you all is fine of course, but change ISP's and all of the sudden everything runs better? The plan speed they sell you is a maximum speed, mine still running good is lucky to make half that speed. Maybe they should make V1.0 available for the oldies on their own little 9 sim grid to enjoy while the rest of us progress forward into new interesting things. They need to still work on bugs of course, in balance and they have not been devoting enough resources too that lately, but it no reason to sack everyone working on long term projects. If they stop adding new features, I'll go to another grid that does. Along with everyone esle that thinks more prims per metre & working vehicles are cool. _____________________
Level 38 Builder [Roo Clan]
Free Waterside & Roadside Vehicle Rez Platform, Desire (88, 17, 107) Avatars & Roadside Seaview shops and vendorspace for rent, $2.00/prim/week, Desire (175,48,107) |
Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
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05-03-2007 04:57
Well your half right. lower spec computers have really been hit hard. Even the mid rangs ones too. I myself had to rebuild my system after a 80% meltdown a few weeks ago ( was not even 1 1/2 system i buildt it ( 6 month when i replaced the cpu again ). With all the crashing the UI has caused its nowaonder systems are breakingmore offen.
as my system stands now. CPU: AMD (6000+ amd am) (3015 MHz) Memory: 2047 MB OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600) Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation Graphics Card: GeForce 7900 512MB 100m up ans down fiber optic internet connection ( and yes i really have this connection ) |
Colette Meiji
Registered User
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Posts: 15,556
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05-03-2007 05:12
Lol you obviously don't remember how bad October - December was. SL has been running smoother in the last few months than ever for me on the opposite side of the planet on a mid spec games machine, near 12months old. Perhaps you are too close. People can tell us Logins are totally bjorked and I can still login 3 AV's at once and teleport freely. SL did run bad for me when I first joined and it turned out to be my ADSL upgrade fixed the problem. I get all the login/TP problems if I run SL on diallup. If it SL good continually for some and continually bad for others logical people would look at the differences. If the same people have had bad running of SL continually for 6 months it's got to mean somethings up with their system or ISP. You can ring your ISP and they will tell you all is fine of course, but change ISP's and all of the sudden everything runs better? The plan speed they sell you is a maximum speed, mine still running good is lucky to make half that speed. Maybe they should make V1.0 available for the oldies on their own little 9 sim grid to enjoy while the rest of us progress forward into new interesting things. They need to still work on bugs of course, in balance and they have not been devoting enough resources too that lately, but it no reason to sack everyone working on long term projects. If they stop adding new features, I'll go to another grid that does. Along with everyone esle that thinks more prims per metre & working vehicles are cool. Inigo is right - things ran smoother before 1.7 (Id say 1.6 really) then they ever do now. And I have a better computer than I did then. Of course this was almost TWO years ago. I imagine people who were here Three years ago could say things were even better before - since obviously the number of people logged on does effect performance. This last update seems to have increased my performance during these times - but its no where near what it was like 2 years ago on a busy night. Inigo - lol I cant think of any shiny new features we have now that are much better than then. Except being able to change clothes while sitting. LOL And there were free accounts back then - just no unverified ones lol |
Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
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05-03-2007 05:25
Well your half right. lower spec computers have really been hit hard. Even the mid rangs ones too. I myself had to rebuild my system after a 80% meltdown a few weeks ago ( was not even 1 1/2 system i buildt it ( 6 month when i replaced the cpu again ). With all the crashing the UI has caused its nowaonder systems are breakingmore offen. as my system stands now. CPU: AMD (6000+ amd am) (3015 MHz) Memory: 2047 MB OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600) Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation Graphics Card: GeForce 7900 512MB 100m up ans down fiber optic internet connection ( and yes i really have this connection ) Hmm well I have a 2.2 MHz Dual core Intel chip & mother board, 2Gb RAM, GeForce 7900, XP SP2 and a 20M ADSL connection. I did have trouble with neding more than one go to TP earlier today, and have crashed twice and saw half a sim dissappear infront of me then reappear2 minutes later _____________________
Level 38 Builder [Roo Clan]
Free Waterside & Roadside Vehicle Rez Platform, Desire (88, 17, 107) Avatars & Roadside Seaview shops and vendorspace for rent, $2.00/prim/week, Desire (175,48,107) |
Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
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05-03-2007 06:16
Hmm well I have a 2.2 MHz Dual core Intel chip & mother board, 2Gb RAM, GeForce 7900, XP SP2 and a 20M ADSL connection. I did have trouble with neding more than one go to TP earlier today, and have crashed twice and saw half a sim dissappear infront of me then reappear2 minutes later i had a 4400 110 watt amd for 6 months until resent issues with this badly coded IU causes a muck for me. I gave up on it because it seems that LLABs is gearinf for higher end systems then mid range. I thought the 7900 GTX extreem 512 was going to last me until atleast sumer. That is when i was going to build my new computer. I had those issues you having now. finally my system came in and a meltdown occured. i sure hope it does not happen to you Usagi ![]() |
Syntax Wilder
Registered User
Join date: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 11
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Well Said
05-03-2007 06:46
This is hilarious and it has made my day. "Lindened" has just become part of my vocabulary!! The question, why are the going backwards is complex. From a technological stand point, I can't answer. I'm an idiot when it comes to technology. I do have some ideas on thesocial/business aspects of it. 1. They have created a runaway train. LL has created something wonderful, truly wonderful. Even their biggest critics hope passionately for their success. I don't think they anticipated or prepared for this level of success. I don't know, but I think their plan is to either to sell SL for a great amount of money OR get major investment dollars into LL. Both of these goals are legitimate, worthy and realistic. However, they have focued on a monomaniacal lust for numbers to achieve this. The lust for numbers could very well strangle their dream. They don't know how to deal with it, although there are relatively simple solutions. 2. Even if they can but the brakes on the runaway train, they won't. These people are not stupid. They know competition will hit them sooner or later. We all know it to. Its a matter of time until someone, some how, some where comes up with something that works better, both technologically [e.g. stable platforms, no tp issues, inventory loss etc.] and socially [e.g. stricter TOS rules such as protection against land bot, sheep bot, financial scamming]. I THINK they believe if they can keep the thing band aided together and keep adding numbers until they find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, they will be ok in the end. They may well be right on this. 3. Customer service or lack thereof. Dealing with irritated customers is not fun. I believe most of the Lindens are kind of "techie" oriented and they like coding and making things. The customers are beginning to irritate the Lindens and its easy, right now, to silence everyone, or more accurately, put ear muffs on so they don't hear the complaints. Realistically, as long as they are the only game in town, this will work. It won't work forever though. 4. Its more fun to make new features than to fix bugs. This is related to #3. The techies are creative people, in their own way, and coming up with bright, shiny "gee whiz" new features is simply more rewarding than fixing bugs in the system. Until they come up with a way to adequatly reward those who fix the bugs, this isn't going to change. 5. They never anticipated the level of scamming that could go on. Who could? This is entrirely new. The reasonable desire to not be "law enforcement" officers in SL combined with perhaps an over respect for clever coding has made them blind to the many abuses that have and can occur. 6. They didn't realize the amount of users who would use SL as purely a social experience. I believe they envisioned a world populated by technologically sophistocated people who would essentially solve their own problems and, at the same time, not be terribly bothered by problems that really irritate those of us who are not so techie in outlook. Its almost like two different cultures and they dont seem to be able to "get" the non techie culture. Its like this. A former boy friend used this example. When he wants to drill a hole in a piece of wood, we wants to get his drill, put a drill bit thingy in it, and drill a hole!! period. He doesnt want to re-wire the drill and try different sized drill motors and change the plug and all that stuff. He just wants a HOLE now!! The Techies LIKE rebuilding the drill. Re building the drill is MORE important than the hole. Here's where they're going, some possible destinations: 1. Their plan may work. Keep it together until the big money comes in, either through sale or investment. Then who knows? 2. They drive it off the cliff, strangling on their own numbers. 3. Competition arrives, then we have sub choices: a. They get REALLY scared and start actually fixing bugs, listening to customers and generally behaving like most succesful companies. Aol went through this. b. They lose and become the Commodore64 of 3D virtual worlds. "Oh yeahhhhh, I remember SL..it was cool while it lasted but [fill intheblank] was soooo much better." Sooner or later, LL and SL will come to the cross roads. Are we close? I have NO idea, but it will come..someday. If they make the smart decisions, they will survive and I hope they do. They deserve a huge amount of success!! If they don't make the smart decisions, they will not survive and we all be the poorer for it. I wish them luck, but tend to be pessimistic. Their own corporate culture seems ill suited for listening to voices other than their own. Susanne you have hit the nail on the head. It is all about numbers, any project worth its weight is all about that. Perhaps some decent competition would make a diference. As you mentioned it will come and when it does SL as we know it may become a thing of the past. To be honest, I am beginning to think that already. Since the last update and subsequent patches that appear to have done nada but bring untold grief. Perhaps they should 'patch' the patch? OMG! its M$ all over again! Presently, I cannot login as it is impossible to do anything. I cannot move around. I cannot access things in my inventory as they have disappeared from the database. Every single time there has been an update or a patch, things have gone from the sublime, to quite frankly, the ridiculous. SL is becoming tedious, boring and a waste of time. THIRD LIFE anyone????? |
Susanne Pascale
Registered User
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 371
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05-03-2007 10:45
Thanks, Syntax. I am hoping for the best in that perhaps the LL management has heard the rifle shots on Lexington green and Concord Bridge and have turned a corner. [Apologies to my British friends] I am waiting to see and support their efforts. Whether I, or any of us support them, is ulitmately irrelevant though. If they don't change, they will fade away into a historical footnote. Competition IS coming and it will eat them alive if they don't start getting ready now. I hope they're serious about getting ready for the inevitable competion. I really am. We will see.
The great historian, Barbara Tuchman wrote a BRILIANT book called "The March of Folly." It cronichles four historical instances which stand out as examples of leadership being absolutely BLIND to what was going on, refusing to listen to intelligent and once trusted advisors, and rushing lemming like into a sea of failure. The four examples were the fall of Troy, the Protestant Reformation, Britain's loss of the American colonies and theUS involvment in the Vietnam war. The recent [until the OL] actions and inactions by LL are HAUNTINGLY reminiscent of the King of Troy, the pre Martin Luther papacy, The British government in the mid to late 1700s and the Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon administrations. Wasn't it George Santayana who said, "Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it? Tuchman's book would be great reading for those times when the grid is down, no Ls are available, you try to walk through invisible molassas etc." I am seriously trying very, very hard to be supportive of LL until I see which way they're going on the OL, but the arrogant stupidity of the"powers that be" chronicled in Tuchman's book strike a chord. |
Iridium Linden
Wikkid Linden
Join date: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 262
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05-03-2007 10:53
Thank you for the feedback in this amazing thread. We're listening.
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AWM Mars
Scarey Dude :¬)
![]() Join date: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,398
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05-04-2007 07:19
LOL... that stalled this thread....
Ok I'll bump it, as I have at least one listener... ![]() Whilst I accept the complexities of running/hosting a platform like Second Life, I don't blame entirely the programmers abilities/skills, for the current situation(s), I have to reflect on the the bigger cause of this situation.... Leadership... Any business worth its salts, and certainly one that wishes to attract investors, must have a business plan/strategy. I have to ask, although the core of the business plan may have been very solid some years ago, when Second Life evolved off the first CD Rom onto a server for the first time.... has that Business Plan, linked to a Financial Cashflow Forecaster, also evolved to keep pace? As we know in Business, the leadership of the business should be steering the companies activites by the implimentation of that Business Plan through the relative ranks of the business. If the Plan is flawed, under estimated or overly estimated, then it must be adjusted. I understand from the various blogs/reports/town hall meetings and any other source of information released to the general populous of Second Life and the outside world, Linden Labs are making plans to introduce scaleability into the system, which has potentially been then cause of most of the issues that have steadily grown over the past 6 months or more. Yet I am curious... wasn't this predictable? Expotential growth of over 5 million accounts and rising at a phenomal rate, left unchecked and in fact encouraged over the past 6 months. Has this caught Linden Labs with their pants down, and in a fire fighting situation? Was that influx supposed to elavate the amount of paying customers and generate revenues to pay for upgrades? If so, surely thats a slap in the face for existing account holders. Surely those revenues should have been to repay investment already spent preparing for the growth, not the other way round? Is the Business plan flawed, or intentional? _____________________
*** Politeness is priceless when received, cost nothing to own or give, yet many cannot afford -
Why do you only see typo's AFTER you have clicked submit? ** http://www.wba-advertising.com http://www.nex-core-mm.com http://www.eml-entertainments.com http://www.v-innovate.com |
Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
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05-04-2007 08:15
i had a 4400 110 watt amd for 6 months until resent issues with this badly coded IU causes a muck for me. I gave up on it because it seems that LLABs is gearinf for higher end systems then mid range. I thought the 7900 GTX extreem 512 was going to last me until atleast sumer. That is when i was going to build my new computer. I had those issues you having now. finally my system came in and a meltdown occured. i sure hope it does not happen to you Usagi ![]() Damn you Jinxed me , my graphic card died this afternoon, turns out it's a 7600, I near burnt my fingers on it getting it out, so I put my old dodgey 6600 back in and it's shut the computer down twice while on the grid, similar to what it did on the old machine, so new bigger better fan cooled graphic card tommorrow. Although my TP problems seem to be related specifically to going in and out of my sim as I described in another post here. _____________________
Level 38 Builder [Roo Clan]
Free Waterside & Roadside Vehicle Rez Platform, Desire (88, 17, 107) Avatars & Roadside Seaview shops and vendorspace for rent, $2.00/prim/week, Desire (175,48,107) |
Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
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05-04-2007 09:12
Damn you Jinxed me , my graphic card died this afternoon, turns out it's a 7600, I near burnt my fingers on it getting it out, so I put my old dodgey 6600 back in and it's shut the computer down twice while on the grid, similar to what it did on the old machine, so new bigger better fan cooled graphic card tommorrow. Although my TP problems seem to be related specifically to going in and out of my sim as I described in another post here. The CPU is a 4400 amd 110 watt? If so you better keep that CPU cool! Its a hottie thingy! Make sure your CPU and you new Graphic Card pull enought out of the Power Supply! Or you have worse problems later. Good Luck to you, Usagi |
Ralph Doctorow
Registered User
Join date: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 560
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05-04-2007 11:01
I'm a huge believer in the idea of SL and am mainly interested in scripting and building content and would like to do a lot more of it. However, recently the number of bugs I've run into and the apparent decision by LL to just not fix a lot of them has me wondering if it's worthwhile to continue.
As with any serious system, there is a real learning curve to build complex things in SL, which is fine with me, that's what I like doing. However, it seems that most projects I do wind up mainly being about coming up with workarounds for various SL bugs, many of which have been around for months or years. LL seems all too ready to just accept that parts of the system get broken and will remain that way forever, which isn't what content creators need. There has to be a stable base to build on to justify the effort of learning and creating content, but it appears that LL isn't committed to maintaining that foundation. |
BrooK Thiebaud
Registered User
Join date: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 2
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05-04-2007 12:03
My experience with the new patch....download....log in....five seconds pass....crash to desktop.....log in......about five minutes pass....disconnected......log in....about five minutes pass....crash to desktop.....log in....about three minutes pass.....crash to desktop.....give up I cannot think of one way in which SL is superior to how it stood when I first joined almost a year ago, and numerous ways in which it is worse. To me SL just seems to be going backwards in terms of features, stability and reliability. Surely a year's worth of work should see some improvement??? I'm also feeling like that. I joined SL in 08/2006 and since the beginning, each update ended in more bugs, more login failures, more crashes. The graphic is still the same and SL is still using a physic system that is old like the real world itself. Usually, after the "patch day" on wednesday, I do expect problems of all kind, but most of the problems should be solved within the upcoming days.. at the end, the system is - just like today - more unstable than before - it's pure coincidence if your login works - after 10 tries, waiting 5-10 minutes each before the client said "despite our best efforts..." how can a second lifer take that seriously looking back at the last couple of months?? |
Calliope Simon
Registered User
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 154
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05-04-2007 12:19
That is key. The viewer a year ago didn't work, hence the updates. Just because you can't see the bigger picture doesn't mean that SL is not being improved. There are still bugs out there, and sometime when they fix one thing, 2 more things come out. It is not that there are more bugs, just different bugs. I for one and glad I am still not stuck with what I had 3 years ago. SL works much better now then it has in the past. Hahahahaaa... Second life works THE SAME at this moment as it did a year ago. In both cases, no one can log on at all. |
Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
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05-04-2007 12:27
A long time ago people believed that SL ws going to grow in the pos way. But time pasted coders came and went leaving in its wake a mess they called a UI. Hardware is so so outdated, Hardware failures, Teleport failures, date base blues.............Gesh........Is it worth expanding to 6,000,000 users? Time moves and so should the ability for stablity of the game.
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