Shaking head @ Lindens - Group Management

This morning I saw something that to me was rather disturbing.

A resident of SL, who had to have been over 18 to be on my property, but was a child AV was in my store. I did not see her personally, but she left behind something she bought and when I went to IM her that it would be in her lost and found I noticed 16 groups that she was in all relating to Child/Adult sex.

I have no problem with role-playing; I myself have done some myself. I am a Vampire, I have an ALT that is a "pet/slave", and I have two children as well (adults who play a 4 yr old and 6 yr old).

However… although I find this act rather disgusting, it is not my point or question. My question to other residents and especially Linden Labs is... If Linden Labs is "doing everything they can" to condemn and/or make it more difficult for people to participate in pedophilia type behavior. Why are there groups readily available for people to join?

I would report that immediately.

Marta,
It is your responsibility to report any and all instances of pedophilia-type actions. LL is not omniscient even if it is omnipotent. It cannot constantly monitor all groups and all avatars all the time for inappropriate behavior. I certainly don't advocate spying on your neighbor but in the face of blatant disregard for the TOS, it is your responsibility to report this avatar.

And those groups. Talk about shooting fish in a barrel.

I couldn't agree more Oryx..... it absolutely be reported...without question.

I'm all for roleplaying.....I imagine it would be terrific fun and a great escape....be it vampire, dragon or indeed a child avatar...but what is absolutely unacceptable is the involvement of any avatar portraying a child in relation to ANY sexual activity whatsoever.... The people who portray child avatars IN THIS MANNER and the people who involve themselves with such portrayals should be thoroughly ashamed and disgusted with themselves.

I would have no hesitation in reporting them....and if you'd rather not do it, send me the name and I'll do it.....

No... I fully intend to report her, and hopefully at least the 16 groups she is involved with. I didn't have time when I first saw it, and thought about it again today while watching "Law & Order: SVU" on-line at work... lol Thought I'd get some feedback.

A Linden couldn't take 15 minutes a week, log in, type "Kiddie sex" into group search and be done with it? I know that might be a depressing job, but all the other Lindens could send him extra love points for the week.

My feelings as well.. they have plenty of Linden's available. Why not one that checks groups... or better yet, have one of their illustrious IT persons have a "check" feature included in the create a group feature. Yeah, it's nice to have it available as soon as you create it, but not necessary. Cripes... just a log of what groups are created in a day, I didn't look into the groups... the titles enough wanted to make me vomit.

As someone who used to work with women who had been affected by sexual issues in their lives in various ways, this topic is a particular sore spot to me. Geez, I'd be more than happy to spend 15 minutes of my time in a day to browse through the group list and search those things out. Too bad the Lindens aren't asking for member help - they sure wanted us to come on in to be on a panel to find out how we feel about SL in general, but I'd be of more use to them in this capacity.

I have a high tolerance for all types of sexual activities, but this is the one which is an absolute and complete no-no, and should be reported as soon as noticed.

There are some very very strange groups out there..... and definitely a closer 'Linden eye' should be kept on them....

I write for a blog network called Sizzling Skillet, and just recently I did a short post about exactly this kind of issue...

http://slexposed.sizzlingskillet.com/2007/12/ridiculous_absurd.html

It's so ridiculous...you can't use words like 'slot machine' etc but other words which I won't even mention here are just 'fine'??????

It boggles the mind...

No, just... no. This thread is the absolute height of hypocrisy. OP admits to being in certain types of RP that 99.9% of the civilized world finds distasteful and illegal (hello? Constitutional AMENDMENT banning slavery), but yet wants to throw stones at another fringe group.

Following posts that claim to be about freedom, but yet want to curtail said freedoms.

Don't get me wrong, here. I don't like the practice either, but I'll gladly fight the good fight for adults (remember, we're all supposed to be 18+ to be on the main grid) to do whatever they feel like with other, consenting adults. Once you make one thing verboten because of how it's percieved, you open the door for everything to be banned.

Since ARs are being filed, I believe there are some that I need to be sending out when I can get inworld: specifically for intolerance (self-explanitory) and harassment (exactly what did this person really DO on your land, leave a box?)... be lucky I'm going to take the high road here, else I'd ALSO send one for promoting illegal acts (see aove for the reason).

In fact, being as willing as I am to stand up for people to have true freedom has even had me targeted by some sensationalist tabloid-journalist.

Best bet is to leave this alone, because this can of worms is poised right over a high-speed oscillating fan, and if it gets opened... well, I will do everything in my power to make sure it gets as messy as possible.

Linden Lab has said Kiddie sex is a violation of Community Standards. It is already banned.

slavery in SL is 100% consensual hon.. and BDSM slavery is as well believe it or not, there are very few, very rare cases of forced slavery

I think I understand the point you're trying to make.....everyone has rights...but as a mother...I have the right to express my opinion on adults portraying children in a sexual manner.....portraying children in this way is not a "true freedom" that everyone has a right to....it's a most dispicable and abhorrent act and I will continue to be of that opinion and exercise my "true freedom" to express that opinion.....no matter how messy anyone intends to make it.

Who are you reporting for intolerance, harassment and illegal acts? Me? For bringing something to the attention of the Lindens who are supposedly making the laws... banning such sexual behavior? As far as this girl... she should be slapped upside the head and removed from the groups, and given a warning... but the creators of the groups are the ones that should be banned.

Here here!

my my my. defensive, aren't we? threatening another AV is against TOS too.

I don't know what to make of this statement. In SL there are NO cases of forced slavery. In RL there are many, particularly in the third world. But even in the U.S. compelled menial slavery exists.

You draw an interesting comparison to the OP's issue. I think most feel that slavery in SL is fun, indulging a secret fantasy/fetish in a harmless way. Lifestylers scoff, but I think that most of the bondage and slavery in SL is just about kinky sex between adults.

However, those who have encountered true RL slavery (not lifestylers; I mean kidnapped or entrapped slaves) doubtless feel differently. I'm sure they would have the same reaction to SL slavery that the OP has to adults RPing sex with children: loathing.



Chris is correct - from LL's point of view the two cases are different: RP of slavery between consenting adults in SL is not banned. Yet. But RP of child-adult sex between consenting adults IS banned.

But I see Tiberious' point. There will always be one group which is repelled by the practices of another group. Is it a slippery slope? Will bondage/slavery be banned next? Then presumably bestiality (roleplay of furry/human sex)? Then presumably roleplay of gay sex? And lastly, of course, any sex at all. Indeed, then, any activity that the majority at the moment find objectionable. Perhaps medieval sims, because jousts take place that may portray hurting horses.

In a perfect world, I think the groups ... any group ... would be permitted to exist. Civil liberties would be maintained. And Lindens and residents would watch all the members of child/adult sex groups carefully, sorting out the actual children, nailing the pervs. It is actually tempting to try this myself. But this is not a perfect world, and who has the time?

I agree, but it doesn't matter.

To my sensibilities, "kiddie pixel sex" is to paedophilia exactly as combat RP is to war. Both RL analogues are inarguably horrific; both virtual counterparts are deeply distasteful to me.

But it doesn't matter. LL has been forced to explicitly ban kiddie pixel sex, due to laws in some jurisdictions. It might have had to do that anyway, under the "broadly offensive" umbrella, given the level of emotion the topic raises.

So, it is an AR-able offense, and I can understand the desire to report it. If "play war" were banned, I'd be tempted to report offenders, too, in the wishful notion that by doing so I'd make the shameful practice go away. But practically speaking, I very much doubt that enforcement of the ban will actually reduce the offensive behavior. It may make it less *visibly* offensive, though, which is perhaps all that is, or can be, wished.

Well, now that I have been able to get into SL, and go through the groups this girl is in, the creators are very clever in how they describe the "group". My report to LL was to investigate the nature of this AV and the groups she is in. Which has grown since this morning. Will anything be done? Probably not... but I've done my part.

Anyways... I do appreciate the comments, and even criticisms. Have a wonderful SLife.

Ok, so who'd join in to make their voices heard loudly about just how 'repulsive and offensive' we find master/slave relationships? I'm sure if we kick up a big enough stink and report some of the worst-case scenarios, we can get LL to ban it too. Bonus points if we can get some news agency to do a shock piece on the goreans...

Might help if you can get some repressive nation to ban visual depictions of slavery. Oh, and with the new SAFE law, even virtual pictures of child sex are illegal again. It is so strict that even the Japanese cartoons are suspect.

"This is what the SAFE Act requires: Anyone providing an "electronic communication service" or "remote computing service" to the public who learns about the transmission or storage of information about certain illegal activities or an illegal image must (a) register their name, mailing address, phone number, and fax number with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children's "CyberTipline" and (b) "make a report" to the CyberTipline that (c) must include any information about the person or Internet address behind the suspect activity and (d) the illegal images themselves. (By the way, "electronic communications service" and "remote computing service" providers already have some reporting requirements under existing law too.)"

"The definition of which images qualify as illegal is expansive. It includes obvious child pornography, meaning photographs and videos of children being molested. But it also includes photographs of fully clothed minors in overly "lascivious" poses, and certain obscene visual depictions including a "drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting." (Yes, that covers the subset of anime called hentai)."

http://www.news.com/8301-13578_3-9829759-38.html

Like others have already stated, this is a time to abuse report them groups.

Mari

And you know what? I'm gonna sit back and laugh my ass off when either:

A) this is struck down like the last law was, or

B) incidents of real-world cases go up.

It may be very callous of me to mention that last part, but I just love seeing the nosy nannies fall flat on their faces.

I mean, honestly... did it ever occur to anyone the best way to make sure some of the worst shit doesn't go down is to actually ALLOW (though not explicitly) the lesser of two evils to happen?

And by allowing these groups of adults to congregate does two things:

1) It actually allows LL to monitor their actions even more closely, and find out if there's anyone doing anything truly illegal, and

2) If there are real pedos in these groups, the more time they're playing in SL and getting their jollies, the less time they're out stalking your real-world children.

Please send me an IM in-world so I can look over the list of groups and AR them too. Also anyone else who asks, ok? The more ARs, the more likely LL will look and act on them. I am the biggest civil libertarian in the world, but the line drawn around someone's rights is drawn where those rights injure someone else. In this case, the kiddie avie with the peculiar playmates is not the problem, because it did no visible injury, at least not in your store. The GROUPS, however, are published in publicly accessible places - the avies' profiles and in Search - and that exposes LL to more grief from RL law enforcement, yellow journalists, and other vigilantes. Which SL "slavery" and SL BDSM do not.

(OK, on second thought, the kid avie did post the names in public profile, so, like you said, a slap upside the head.)