Latest trends in SL economy (shopping)

Yeah, I've never done that lol..thats bad!

I only use open source ttextures or ones I buy.

But it is true that if you copy a design exactly it can be Copyright infringement, depending on what it is.

On what basis do you assume that people are that way or would take the statement that it's possible to make money here if you work at it hard enough as some kind of class based value judgment? That's my point. Your assumptions aren't based on any empirical data so they can only represent your own attitudes and biases... what you think people feel, which may not have any bearing on what it is they actually do feel.

To the extent that there are people out there who do feel that way, and I'm sure there are, I think the best thing LL could do is to simply stop hammering the "make money in SL" PR mantra. SL isn't a gold rush town any more and it shouldn't be billed as one. Market the social, entertainment, exploration, creativity, shopping angles. If we're not setting up the expectation that people should be able to make money here they have no reason to be disappointed that it can be quite difficult to do.

Well, I'm speaking based on the new folks I've met. It's been my experience that the vast majority want to know how to earn money, but do not expect to earn very much money, nor to cash out. In other words, they're just looking for some L$ for purchasing content. But possibly more interesting is that most of them do not have any particular content that they want to by. The most common attitudes appear to be:

a) "Spending L$ is clearly part of the virtual experience (they've flown to malls, etc), so surely, earning it is too, and I need to find that out. Buying L$ for real money is "unreasonable" (real money for virtual items), or "cheating" (should earn within the world)." (Often a game-oriented view.)

b) "This is a world that's designed to be about expressing imagination, and others seem to be earning L$ for theirs, so I want to do that too, and then I'll have some L$. Buying L$ shouldn't be needed because they're just to encourage me to imagine (right?), and I don't need encouragement, I _want_ to do that." (In other words, no consideration of the business aspects involved.)

c) "Successful people earn their own L$, so I shouldn't buy them with real money because that will mean I have failed."

c) is particularly common when it's spread around a group - somebody comes into SL, has some success as a content creator or service provider, and tells their friends how great it was. That should be good publicity except that those friends come into SL expecting to have success in the same way.

I think they "put in" far more than enough in terms of crappy items (most), unethical sellers (too many), and incredibly unstable software, don't you?

Don't be so damn greedy, get your fat ass off the couch, and go get a brick and mortar job if you want some money.

I have been on SL for what, 3 months. I have noticed several things with the SL economy and 'shopping'.

First, the entire economy is service based. That is a fatal flaw but I am not sure what the answer is. In RL the foundations of world economy is the world itself. If you take away our ability to mine for minerals and grow and harvest food crops, everything above (read service industries) falls flat. There is no harvesting from the environment in SL, so in order to generate turnover in the virtual world you have 2 choices; make everything free, or expect people to keep pumping real cash in via credit cards. That reminds me of shaky western economies going to the bank with begging bowls in the 1970's. The bottom line is something needs to change.

If prims were a harvest-able crop in SL, and we saw industrious people going around the botanical gardens and woodlands gathering branches so the prims in them could be turned into virtual furniture, there you have a real economy. The only way to make money in SL is to make clothes, buildings or work in the dance/escort industry. (I know that is not strictly true, but to a new person, it sure looks that way...) The big question is, where are your customers getting the cash from, and why do you get to make money and they don't? And entering the same trade as you is not the answer.

Secondly, why are all the malls geared toward women? I see beautiful dresses that are a joy to behold, and yet for men, the same generic monkey suit everywhere I look. Let's be honest here, we all know what it is; spray on body art with cardboard collars added in some vain attempt to make it resemble RL. If anyone thinks I am handing over money for that it is time to wake up and smell the coffee.

The third problem for me is game stability. The servers are so creaky they frequently cannot even provide me the information on who my friends are from the databases. How many bytes does that take up, 12? When the game world is at what I would describe as alpha build level, I refuse to sink cash in. Why should I buy stuff I cannot see or use?

LOL! So how many petabytes of data does your system push out??

Got a T3 Line? Quad Core? Hundreds, if not Millions, of users logging onto your home computer??

If you want perfection, try Warcraft. Only downside is, you dont own any of it, and the money you pay in is lost to a Corporation. You cant make it back except through illegal means.

Within 1 month, I make back 2-7 times what I'd pay for Warcraft. Credit cards paid off. Bills paid. Aint too bad, I'd say.

AND- I will agree with you on the Men's stuff. Not alot of it. *hint hint*

QFT. SL should be marketed as a place to explore new places, lifestyles, cultures, etc. The "Make Money!" bit is so overdone now.

I have been to quite a few 'freebie' shops in SL....everything is free or only $1L!

They call it 'start your own store' I think...everything in the boxes are full perms. But they are also stuff you can get for free elsewhere and of very poor quality.

I believe this has taken away from us who 'can' build and create. It's a darn shame that we have to lower our prices and standards for this.

Just my two cents...

SeXXXy

i haven't gone through the entire thread, but has anyone considered the value of the linden dollar now and back in late 2006? what i mean is, an item that cost $280 lindens back in late 2006 was about a US$1, but now it's worth about US$1.4 - that's a 140% of the original value. I think it's fair that designers are lowering the prices to reflect the value of the item to the value of linden dollar. That said, I wouldn't put the blame solely on freebies and BIBs, etc. because it's a separate issue. Freebies, knockoffs and L$25 divas existed back then, too. From my experience, if your items are good and at a price that the consumer feels is reasonable, they would buy it.

Looking back at my L$ buy orders from May-June '06 the average is about L$325/$1 to L$337/$1. I miss those exchange rates .

And a drop from L$280/$1 to the $265/$1 it's been for most of this year is actually only 5% more expensive, not 40% .

A little????????????? Try a metric ton To the point where lost confused and totally lied to new people ( not talking about the alts ) alts taking advatage of those that give free money to it should go to needie new users. As some people said in how to boost population? gambling was a main source of population. But with now large paying ad companies now on sl. why bother with gamblers that supported sl with their buying of money? peanuts as you say compared to waht large comapnies are paying for islands and other monies to ( let me get this correct Linden Research Inc or LRC ). Sad Sad Sad

Oops! My bad! I was going by the rate of buying lindens US$1 at a time. Which is L$186/USD$1... now i'm going to have to re-do all my math thanks for pointing that out!

I was saying that we have a lot of new players camping and doing surveys and killing themselves in mindless jobs in their second lives to make money. Yes, there are some unethical sellers and they are not limited to new players! But the point is that when you look at the economy as a whole, you got a large influx of people who aren't spending money at levels that people used to spend at. If you look at changes in growth rates from month to month, it becomes really clear that the culture has shifted.

My sales have died since the new search came on. I don't understand how it works at all or how to make it work in my favour.

I only started playing with Sl this weekend. It's absolutely huge and confusing to the new player. You may think it's a walk to the corner store but that's peanuts to SL (to paraphrase HHG2G). Finding quality items can be very time consuming and as a man I'd rather not spend that time if I can help it. I'll gladly pay for a superior product that I can't make myself, mostly skins & clothes. As I see now there is no way for search to quickly tell if a store is great or crap. A rating system would help greatly.

As for the SL economy I see it following the RL one. The US dollar is crap now and just making ends meet is tough. IMHO the bubble has burst for SL like it did for the internet at the turn of the century. To keep going, businesses have to begin investing. The company I work for has a presence and I see others starting.

Gambling is NOT coming back. The servers are in the US and online gambling is illegal. It would take new legislation to change this.

Just my 0.02L

S

I was told by one of my Managers at work that there are some folks in Congress trying to get the whole "Online Gambling" thing changed. Who better to know than some guy who makes $5000 in a weekend from Online Poker Championships? Heh! He was telling me how they're able to get around the laws through various services.

So there may be hope yet for those with an urge to gamble.

Unfortunately, I'm no gambler so I dont care too much either way.

Would that be one of the guys running and entering in his own online card tournaments where you get to wager your $5k against his house and his alt players?
If you gamble online, you probably play RL cards with your eyes shut too

Agreed. As per my other post earlier today. Over a 4 yr trading period our store peaked last Xmas and have maintained the turnover at the same level since. No decline ( good ) No incline ( not so good )
The culture of newcomes HAS changed.
What was once a place to explore creativness and then by default your skills are put up for sale has now be replaced with " a place to make a quick buck " with very little to no guidence or even a daily messege at the log in screen about IP or copyright.

New comers see other new comers selling full perm crap or ripping skins etc and think " well, that must be the norm " andfollow suit.

Once over if anyone was found doing something iffy there was real shame in the community now the community is so vast and filled with theft from all angles its the "norm" to noobs.

Added to that the develping countries who are joining were $10 buys them a weeks food and given the choice of spending 4 mths learning a trade to then try and get your wares noticed and purchased over taking the easy and unehical and more often illegal route and theyre gonna go for option no 2 , esp when " everyone else is doing it "

Sad sad times... time for a new world I think

You have to take into consideration:

Flexi caused a rise in sales.

Sculpties items are only just coming out, ppls will wait to see whats on the market before comitting to buy.

Europeans now outnumber the Americans and exchange rates are making it less appealing to spend on vapourware.

Land prices fluctuated greatly after Gambling was outlawed and the market became flooded. Added to by the LL release of yet more land (timing sucked).

The laws being forced upon internet users regarding streaming music, caused clubs to halt having events, and that reflects on markets of sales.

The amount of ppls now inworld on a regular basis (over 50,000 for the past couple of months), creates baseline average figures to become fluid, as opposed to 6 months ago, it was probably more like 30,000.

VAT has now been added to the micro economy, so curtailing spending both on 'goods' and land.

Credit cards have now been introduced into SL, therefore creating another level of expenditure that won't hit the LL data sets.

Falls of Banks and other financial institutes, causing uncertainty.

Recent client release issues, creating uncertaintly about the future of SL, and reports of the Client actually being full of security holes. People having login failures won't help.

And I am sure lots of other factors.

Second life is dying because of US goverment involvement.
That is what is destroying the market.
why the fuck don't the shut down vegas if they do not want gambling.
why do we have to suffer for the idiots falling for scams on the internet just like in RL.

But on the other hand it is starting to look like the real world isn't it.
The US goverment wanting control like everywhere in the world.
Leaders forcing law upon law untill you're only allowed to move inside of a box.

Ten there's a lot of people who mistake their second life with their first life and fall in love with an avatar.
FOR gods sake people it's a fucking game.

I can say this: Leave now if you have money invested in secondl life. Get it out ASAP.
Second life wont last two more years if they keep this up and L$ value is dropping like a dead fly. GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN.

Yes we need to encourage crooked gambling and bot goldfarming as much as possible to help the economy.

Thats one persons opinion. There are lots of people ( who rightly or wrongly opt for SL over RL due to disabilities, poor health, shitty RL...its called escapism) and dressing their dolly up in stuff that is not really relative to the price of RL items but relatively expensive compared to other designers is part of their fantasy and escapsim.
Also just as in RL you will have price concious consumers and people who actually enjoy paying a fortune for something because it reflects their RL or SL wealth and status.


SL is a hobby to many ppl. Hobbies cost money and I personally can't obide the types that come into SL on a free acct put absolutly nothing into it and do everything in their power to take as much from it in $$$

Its smacks of cheap and lazy.

They dont understand or indeed care how if you take take take and put nothing back in the "world" will collaps.
LL need money to run SL. Its residents need money to pay their fees. Without money SL collapses.

LL should of only allowed Free Accts on a limited access only this will give ppl a taste of SL but as friends want them to visit other places and they can't get thier w/o upgrading their acct I would bet my last dollar 75% would upgrade within a month.

When TRU temp put a ban on No Payment On Acct residents being able to shop at the store we learnt directly from customers that

a)
Many of these free accts have in excess of 50K L$ in their accts ( they COULD upgrade but whats the point? )

b)

They were running a business and NEEDED textures and TRU was effecting their sales because they couldnt get in to buy the texture they needed for creation ( again some of these ppl arent "poor" its a choice of " why pay?" Which I think sucks. If your making any amount of L$ that you cash out then the least you should do is support the platform that provides you that opportunity. LL are trying to run a business. If they fail. We fail.

c)
some actually UPGRADED rather than wait the 2 mths we had the ban on.

d)
Some took offence and claimed " I dont have a CC I cant upgrade " but you dont NEED a CC! I dont have one! Never have. ( poor credit rating ) But I have a debit card on my paypal PLUS you dont even need to upgrade just adding your Paypal details on your file will change the status of your acct to " Payment info used "

This gives businesss ppl like me confidence that my customers are verified. That they are who they say they are. So if resident X copied a load of designers stuff and put it up for sale in FP stores we know that LL have his/her real name and address so we can go legal
It makes ppl act more responsibly.

Having a NPOF acct is the equivlant to being invisible in SL you can do what you want and no one can touch you.

LL's fault. They were onto a brilliant idea and someone somewhere will be replicating the client but changing the faults and flaws LL have left for too long.

I cant wait for another metaverse personally. Some are on the horizon, one in China but we all know about China's lack of Copyright Laws. Thats a recipe for disaster in a Virtual world if ever I saw one. That said, I havent had time to investigate it yet. Maybe they are using a different client software that doesnt support GL . Im not "big" on coding and programing I just make pretty pictures





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But the problem with this is that the entire present SL business model - the entire "it's a platform not a game" ideology - arose from the reality that people running businesses didn't want to pay for their own hosting. But that's an uncomfortable reality. I run a shop; on a good month it pays my tier; if it didn't pay my tier for a while, I would probably tier down. And I have no problem with doing that, and I'm sure 99% of people think that is completely reasonable. But at the same time, there would be nothing _incorrect_ in the viewpoint that I'm just desperately trying to avoid having to put any of my own money in for my land - to the extent that if my customers stopped paying my fees, I'd actually give up the land rather than reach into my own purse! Gee, I must be an evil, bloodsucking leech!



They won't. They'll do what newbies are already doing - adapt socially. I mean, come on, if one of your friends in real life insisted that you visit an expensive club that she knew you could not afford, and refused to meet you anywhere else - would you rearrange your finances to ensure you should go, or would you just think she was being mean and forget her? I've already met newbie builders who won't charge for items they're making because it would be "evil" and from their point of view it would be - it would put the item out of reach of all their newbie friends who are in the same stuck situation.



I know, but unfortunately LL took the horrible step of basing it on real money and making real money be the measure of success in the game. That's created a situation where at least a fair number of players think that paying for your own land is something only losers do. I mean, I've seen people on these forums posting "Don't buy an island unless you can make it back from in-world profits". I've seen people in-world being even more blunt: "Don't buy an island unless you can make it back from in-world profits because if you can't you're not a good enough builder to bother having one".



Not all countries support PayPal either. And if they don't upgrade, they aren't supporting the platform - are you complaining about identity verification or monetary contribution here?

So the one and only answer for the club is to throw its doors wide open and hand out free drinks to everyone?

The only way they'd stay afloat is to continually increase the membership fees of those who are crazy enough to pay. The more popular the club becomes, the less money they'd make because the ratio of free vs paid would keep on increasing, prompting even more price increases.

As Second Life becomes bigger the expense of keeping the grid operational continues to inch closer towards total income and the less LL makes month after month. That's not a sustainable business model.