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OK. What did you guys do to LOD in 1.10.2? |
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Duke Scarborough
Degenerate Gambler
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 158
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06-09-2006 09:50
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paulie Femto
Into the dark
Join date: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 1,098
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centipede track ball and button
06-09-2006 10:14
Here's a shot of the trackball and fire button on my Centipede arcade game.
 They're supposed to be rounded. They do "correct" themselves after a few seconds, but upon first zooming in, they look blocky like this. _____________________
REUTERS on SL: "Thirty-five thousand people wearing their psyches on the outside and all the attendant unfettered freakishness that brings."
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Marcus Moreau
frand
Join date: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 602
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06-09-2006 10:24
I was having this problem with a fountain of mine as well. The base bowl (cut, hollow, sphere) had water in it (another cut, sphere) and the bowl would turn to a polygon and the water would stick out the edges. Eventually, it might turn out to be ok, usually if you got close enough.
I tried to take a screenie on my laptop, but of course it's working ok now. I will try to take one tonight at home. MM _____________________
Marcus Moreau
Disenfranchised island owner... "This statement is false." User #121869 or something close |
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Echo Misfit
Misfit Mutt
Join date: 25 May 2006
Posts: 14
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06-09-2006 10:32
Just putting in two more cents to say that this needs to be fixed.
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Yiffy Yaffle
Purple SpiritWolf Mystic
Join date: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,802
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06-09-2006 10:34
Every new patch seems to mess up Luskwood avatars more. I wear one all the time and love it, but LL can you please stop trying to FIX things that ARENT broken? Now i have a shitty inventory to boot...
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IC Fetid
Registered User
Join date: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 145
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06-09-2006 11:48
I myself am happy that LL has listened to me and is taking the first steps to reducing graphics quality so that they will be able to rendered on any computer, including my old VIC20
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Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
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06-09-2006 12:06
what would be good i guess is that peoples stop slapping torus and spheres in large wuantity on the avatar, it is the main cause of the awfull experience we get in clubs, maybe a limit of how many prims you can attach on a point could solve it, personally i would be mre into this kind of approach:
/13/0b/112760/1.html#post1082871 most peoples in sl have no clue what optimisation mean, and it's not normal that a prim like the torus can eat as many polygons as 24 cubes and still be considered at the same level hell, someone wearing the infamous torii cut prim hairs hoard more than 6 times a full character from hl2! i whish we could get a few advanced special prims or the "no render" texture i ask since 2 years so the builders that care will be able to make stuffs that do not grind sl to a halt amateurish building fault _____________________
 tired of XStreetSL? try those! apez http://tinyurl.com/yfm9d5b metalife http://tinyurl.com/yzm3yvw metaverse exchange http://tinyurl.com/yzh7j4a slapt http://tinyurl.com/yfqah9u |
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eltee Statosky
Luskie
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 1,258
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06-09-2006 12:38
again monkeying around with the detail levels and how they interact with the world and system was definately needed, thats not the problem. The problem is that the levels have now been 'capped' to 'mediocre' ... the choice to view a better sl, or a faster sl with blockier objects has more or less been removed.
I have no problems if someone does not like lag in an area, please, by all means, let them scale back their rendering, trade some roundness for some badly needed fps... but what of the other person, who doesn't want or really care for super high framerates, they want the best looking world they can get, and now, its been basically ripped away from their hands, and there is nothing they can do to get it back. The change for how LOD works, as a system is good, and very cool the problem was it was not integrated into the client very well, and its left a large segment of SL's population, those that do not go to clubs, who instead often sit talking with friends in open parks, etc, with nothing but broken objects and flickering z-buffer hiccups on surfaces, that used to be curved _____________________
wash, rinse, repeat
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Kimmer Soyer
Registered User
Join date: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 93
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06-09-2006 15:02
Well, i'll add my two cents also.
This is a right mess. Fix it, please. Every curved object made turns to crap the moment you take a step back. |
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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06-09-2006 16:15
Posting here to confirm this thread is visible to us--I'm asking for more insight from our graphics engineers.
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Artemis Keen
Linux Furry
Join date: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 23
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06-09-2006 16:19
2 more cents from me (euro cents ;P)
It's getting.. rather ugly this way.. shouldnt quality go up with new releases.. |
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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06-09-2006 16:49
Heard back.
THIS HAS BEEN CONFIRMED: Watch for a fix in a future version of Second Life soon; and I know some, including myself, will ask "how soon?" but I don't know for sure yet. When I do know, I'll be announcing it VERY loudly in this very thread. You have my word.Level-of-Detail (LOD) has been scaled up to higher settings in response to all the problems that've been reported. _____________________
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Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,119
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06-09-2006 17:15
I myself am happy that LL has listened to me and is taking the first steps to reducing graphics quality so that they will be able to rendered on any computer, including my old VIC20 I'm thinking they are trying to get it to run on a Texas Instruments 80 calculator! Geeze. That explains the spots on my prim hair that weren't there before! This sucks. Let me know when you guys fix this, LL, so I can log back in without feeling the bile rising. This is just.. I'm actually at a loss for words and it's not that good kind of loss. _____________________
DiamonX Studios, the place of the Victorian Times series of gowns and dresses - Located at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Fushida/224/176
Want more attachment points for your avatar's wearing pleasure? Then please vote for https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1065? |
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Thornne Speculaas
Registered User
Join date: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 17
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06-09-2006 18:52
While most of these can be overcome by increasing increasing your mesh detail in preferences<snip> I've noticed no matter what position I move my sliders to, there is NO change in mesh quality anymore. I've reported this a few times now. At minimal settings, I should not be seeing full LOD spheres and toruses on avatars, whereas pre 1.10 I actually saw a difference between maximum and minimum settings and could get decent framerates with more than 6 people onscreen. |
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eltee Statosky
Luskie
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 1,258
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06-10-2006 07:49
thats really cool torley, thanks for your help on this.
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wash, rinse, repeat
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Cocoanut Cookie
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,741
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06-10-2006 12:55
Last night I pulled out an object from my inventory that turned out to be the arm of my chair, which consists of half of a hollowed out cylinder.
It was no longer a cylinder. No matter what I did - with settings, points of view, etc. - it was now a hollowed-out half of an octagon. I assume that this problem is going to be corrected forthwith, and solved well? Otherwise, there's not much point in any of us contuining on here really. coco _____________________
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Artemus Seifert
Registered User
Join date: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 4
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06-11-2006 01:20
Scaled up, but anything like the old LOD system...?
Heh. *bows to Michi* I thank you for starting this thread... 'Cuz the new system does rightly blow as I've seen. Rather screwed us furs, it did. Hehe |
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Fenrir Reitveld
Crazy? Don't mind if I do
Join date: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 459
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06-11-2006 19:07
Can we please please please please get some advanced voodoo options to control how the tesselator behaves?
When I am doing screen captures or machinima grabs, I'd rather the detail level stay uniform -- even at the cost of framerate. In fact, I'd rather disable ALL LOD calculations entirely for some scenerios and just run everything at max tesselation. (When I am in a small area with a fixed set of prims -- switching detail levels does cause a noticable dip in framerate at times.) I'd also like to be able to adjust how aggressive things are LODed. The detail sliders let me set the lower limit on what it will drop the LOD to, but it would be nice to be able to control the hysteresis factor at the same time. Again, I'm fine if this is something I need to edit in the INI file... It's great LL is trying to tweak the LOD system so it'll drop the appearent "lag" to those who play, but not all of us agree with how aggressive that LODing should be... |
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
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06-11-2006 21:57
IM:
[21:36] Eep Quirk: Hi, Steve, can you add an LOD option to not change and stay at full tesselation all the time, please? [21:36] Steve Linden: If you slide the 'object detail' slider all the way to the right you get pretty close to that [21:37] Eep Quirk: yes, I know, but SL tends to lag more calculating LOD than if LOD wasn't even on. [21:38] Eep Quirk: perhaps if the LOD function was more intuitive and didn't happen after x polygons in a prim or something. [21:38] Steve Linden: Sometimes true, but without it there are places where you would get million triangle scenes. It's something we are working on, and there will be some improvement on that in the next patch. [21:39] Eep Quirk: the only "improvement" I know of is just a scaling up of it, but that won't help much. [21:40] Eep Quirk: surely some way of determining whether or not LOD would be worth doing on a prim with x polygons would be a better approach? [21:40] Steve Linden: The improvement will reduce the frequency of LOD changes. We also have a long range plan but it's complicated and will require some engine rework. [21:41] Steve Linden: Anyway, it is an issue we are aware of. [21:41] Eep Quirk: OK, yea, I read the recent LOD post in the current version feedback forum but just wanted to see what you thought of an option (even in settings.ini would suffice) to not do LOD at all. [21:42] Eep Quirk: or is there a debug menu option that can disable LOD already? [21:46] Steve Linden: Well, certain objects, like cut spheres, tesselate to >1000 triangles at the highest LOD. If you set your draw distance beyond 64, there would be places with millions of triangles in the scene, which would drag down even a very high end graphics card. [21:46] Eep Quirk: perhaps only doing LOD based on camera distance AND prim complexity then? [21:47] Eep Quirk: still, for testing, a way to completely disable LOD would be nice. [21:48] Steve Linden: Well, right now LOD is based on camera distance and prim complexity... [21:48] Steve Linden: As for a debug option, that may be possible, but I suspect it would do more harm than good. [21:49] Eep Quirk: how so? [21:50] Eep Quirk: if you mean locking up SL, well, that happened to me whenever I set draw distance to 512 before SL 1.9.1  [21:50] Steve Linden: Yes, well, I'd rather have less of that not more  [21:51] Eep Quirk: well, it'd be a fairly obscure debug menu option so whoever would dork with it would, presumably, know what they were doing (or just curious to see what happens, knowing full well that lockups can occur)... [21:52] Eep Quirk: being able to lock a prim/object's LOD to a lower tesselation would be nice too. 21:52] Steve Linden: You would think that would be the case... but enough people would turn it on in a low complexity area, think it was great, then go someplace where their frame rate would lock up and not realize why. [21:52] Steve Linden: I could see locking it to a lower tesselation, but again, sliding the detail all the way left practically does that. [21:53] Eep Quirk: well, a warning popup could come up the first time LOD is disabled (like other 1st-time events) [21:53] Eep Quirk: yes but that is for ALL prims; I mean a specific prim/object. [21:54] Steve Linden: Sure, but people would forget about it... I'd rather just exaggerate the range of the sliders, although I think they are pretty extreme already, if your card can handle the detail slider all the way right, it won't be doing all that much swapping, [21:55] Eep Quirk: OK, how about a debug disclaimer that LL isn't responsible for any effects that occur when using its options? heh [21:56] Steve Linden: we'll see[21:56] Eep Quirk: OK, well, thanks for your time. [21:56] Steve Linden: np, have fun! _____________________
Pentium D 820 (2.8GHz), 2GB PC4200 (533MHz) DDR2 RAM, BFG GeForce 6600GT 128MB
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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06-11-2006 22:04
I'd like to point out this is the same problem as the culling that I made a hoot about. The primitive-reduction systems are too sensitive and often crapify / disappear prims much too close to the camera.
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Hiro Pendragon
------------------ http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com |
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Michi Lumin
Sharp and Pointy
Join date: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,793
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06-12-2006 13:19
eep: I don't know if that's good or bad, what Steve said there....
I'd really rather not be thrown a pacifier, exagerating the sliders, etc. ... 10.2 broke a lot of detail on a lot of content. Nothing worse than hearing "it's fixed." from Linden, and it really isn't. Mainly because then we're back to square one.... and honestly I'm getting a bit weary of spearheading these long, drawn out wrestling matches with LL. It's not just LOD switchovers and slider size. Detail - was - reduced. Period. and I hope they realize that their reduction in detail screwed up a lot of existing content. Period. |
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
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06-12-2006 13:38
Feel free to bring it up with Steve Linden in SL, Mitchi. These forums are essentially useless in getting LL to participate unless Torley makes a big deal about something to the devs.
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Pentium D 820 (2.8GHz), 2GB PC4200 (533MHz) DDR2 RAM, BFG GeForce 6600GT 128MB
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Michi Lumin
Sharp and Pointy
Join date: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,793
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06-12-2006 13:55
Well, to be fair, Torley has carried this one through to the attention of the developers.
I'm only trying to reiterate the nature of the problem. Sometimes things get off track in the rush of development. We'll see how 1.10.3 looks. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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06-13-2006 11:41
If they're putting this hysteresis in to prevent "flickering", they should base it on time rather than distance... don't change the LoD of a prim more than once in N seconds while it's in the "danger zone"... rather than simply making the LoD "sticky".
They could get a lot better reaction from people by making settings like this based on FPS. Before 1.10 you could have it drop draw distance if your FPS dropped below a certain number. This worked very well, and let my old nVidia 5600 remain responsive in laggy areas while giving me a reasonable draw distance in other areas. How about having the LoD based on a 20 second rolling average of FPS? Just about any of the limits could be tweaked that way, in fact... |
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Bethanee Heaney
Registered User
Join date: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 103
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06-13-2006 12:03
Some kind of LOD fix made it into 1.10.3 for tomorrow (which I didn't expect)... see the release notes in the announcements forum.
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