First Land: Do's and Do-not's

I have just been witness to some dispute between some people about what is appropriate action about First Land and what is not. They seem to disagree what people should do and what should be considered fraud or exploit. So I discussed with Guni and we both think that it would be great if community could come up with some fair and realistic guideline.

Personally we think that as long as Linden Lab offers subsidized land to main accounts and alt accounts it is only fair if everybody take advantage of it. This means:

The DOs:
1. You buy First Land from Linden for whatever reason is ok
2. You use your alt accounts to buy more First Land from Linden is also ok as long as the allow it and everybody else do
3. You sell First Land for profit is ok
4. You show your friends or newbies how to make profit from claiming their First Land and selling it is ok

The DON'Ts:
1. Talking newbies into selling their First Land without making it clear to them that they can NOT buy First Land from Linden Lab again
2. Talking newbies into not taking advantage of First Land for whatever "ethical" reason
3. Talking newbies into sell their First Land for like 1 L$ per meter by making them believe this would be the normal land value (instead of subsidized rate).

I think it would be great if we could have constructive discussion here and maybe add more DOs and DON'Ts or better flesh out what I just post above as quick start. So many confused newbies, I think we should help them not miss out on anything and not get rip either. Otherwise only the sharks in the pond will be winner.

Everyone should check out the latest Metaverse Messenger for Linden comments on this very issue.

One thing to realise is that selling first land is a way for new users to get some L$ to spend.

Anshe - it makes sense, but I don't know how it could be enforced in a official way, unless abuse was reported on specific incidents.

I agree with your guidelines - I just think its really a social problem, how do you prevent people from ripping each other off?

Good points, except I believe First Land should be only for the first purchase of land and not alts. Just because everyone else does it, does not make it right. There was a response in the Hotline that clearly indicates First Land was intended for the First purchase of land. There can only be one First.

I would ask you Anshe, as a responsible member of Second LIfe society, not to encourage people to violate the spirit of the First Land program. If we keep it the way it was intended, there will be more First Land available for actual First Land Buyers.

Anshe,

Given that Linden Lab has clearly stated this program is for new players who have never owned land before to have a chance at getting a piece of land, it is irresponsible for you to promote the concept that it is perfectly fine to use alt accounts to get first land. That is both against LL's wishes, and in violation of the spirit of the program as well.

I don't think we could or should actually enforce any rules. It is just that it may be nice to have some reference point or guideline for people who are unsure how they should act.

About alt accounts I have one question: is it actually possible to create-delete-create alt accounts over and over and use each one to get First Land? I really don't see any wrong with somebody have 5 accounts that she pay for and get 5 little piece of First Land. I offer Starter Land myself in Dreamland and found out that impact of alts is small because even alts pay tier. But getting 5 piece every 2 weeks by creating and deleting accounts would have bigger impact and be odd. You think that is actually possible?

Btw, I think it should be easy for Linden Lab to make it so that First Land can only be bought with main account and not with alts. I think they implement exactly this with the free basic accounts where only one basic account is free but all alt account cost money. I really don't think they seriously care. In fact, one Linden told me once they mostly care about monthly tier now.

It is not easy for them to do so, because there could legitimately be two new users on the same account who have never owned land (for example a husband and wife both with separate avatars on the same account). It is easy for them to block a second free acount - they just check the credit card number. Only the first person on the account is elligible for the free basic account, so it is a simple restriction to enforce. It is much more complciated with First Land.

What is the difference between a husband and wife sharing a credit card and alt accounts? I understand that to get a free account it must be the first one on a credit card, but does that mean her husband cannot get a free account using the same CC?

How would this affect first land?

I know if it's allowed people will do it, and the responsibility is ultimately on LL to make it a program limited to newbs. But I will never buy first land with an alt account because there is a limited amount of it, and actual new players will be screwed out of it.

So please consider the effect of what you're doing when your alt buys first land.

Consider the source people.


What's Anshe's main function in Second Life?
How does she make the bulk of her cash?

I can't go anywhere without seeing at least one empty plateau with an Anshe sign rezzed in the middle of it....

Granted, I'm not faulting her for being a successful business person, but encouraging alt accounts to buy First Land and sell it is unethical. In First Life, it would barely be legal! Her advertisement fell into the DARK grey area since she did not expressly say "Sell it to me".

I bought first land, sold it to anche, and then bought the land i actually wanted. There is nothing wrong with this. I didn't do the transaction so that I could buy an avitar, I did it so that I could buy better land. AND, I was even loaned a few bucks until payday so that I could complete the transaction.. I sought her out, not the other way around.

So I have no problem with her, what she does, the fact that she makes a profit, or the guidelines she suggests. It's an open market people.

Alt's cost money.. and keep LL alive. Who's to say if it's my 2nd account or my wife's account. My business.

Hi Anshee
I do Not want to be rude or anything but I was reading your post and saw you say that you want to help newbies and not see ppl get ripped off...Then I have a question for you,

If I was to buy 1024sqm of land from Linden Lab I would pay $5USD = just over $6AUD approx a month and it would come directly of my credit card acount No Other costs involved

If i was to buy the same amount of land from you i would have to pay $8USD a month = over $9AUD a month plus on top of that I would have to use paypal which then charges me more money to convert my aussie dollars into USD

so my question is How is that not ripped off?

Secondly while i think its great you've managed to make yourself a buisness and earn real life money.....I dont see how it is helping newbies as I have been searching for the last 7 to 8 hours for a block of land to buy and everytime i see one i go there to find that you own it?

As I am a newbie....That does not help me lol

Nat

@Nat

Being a newbie and JUST ABOUT to upgrade my account and pick up land or at least research it, this thread interested me.

I completly understand what you are saying about the fee's and costs but thats your choice if you so choose to use those services. Nobody is forcing you to purchase land via paypal from anyone but people offer it as a service for people who do want it. Yes there are costs associated with it but even in Brick and Morter or Web Business's Cost of Doing Business is payed by someone, sometimes the buyer sometimes the purchaser.

For example I just did a Web Project for a customer in Hong Kong. Our chosen payment method was via paypal and there was a currency conversion involved. The Customer Ate the entire cost of that, the conversion and the pay pal fee's... I was upfront with it and direct with the customer that this would be added on to the FRONT END payment. It was there decision to choose to do it or not.

In the end, it made sense as it was cheeper than western union or federal express.

My point though is nobody is forcing you to use that system, but if you do you may pay a bit more.

I Totally understand that it is my choice but it is a bit hard when every piece of land i find is owned by the same person....ill just have to keep looking lol
Nat

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Tell me again how 1417 sellers equals Anshe owns all the land. I run into a random 2-3 land sellers a day who are all different. The competition is out there. The sellers are fighting for your dollar. If you pay someone more, that is your choice. I think if you look, Anshe is competing like everyone else on many fronts. There are reasons people can charge more for certain land. I know the idea of a themed regulated sim appeals to some people enough to want to pay a third party to get it. If they find Anshe, Hiro, or any other land renter who provides a service that they consider worth the cost, they will go to it. It is not hard for you to find other land. There is a Find button, there is a Land Sales tab on the map, and there are probably a dozen land sales signs that don't say Anshe around you at any given time.

Ripping someone off would involve trickery. I don't see Anshe trying to trick people into thinking that Linden Labs will try to charge them more, or taking people's money and not delivering them with land. Ripping off is not buying cheap and selling high. It takes two people to make that deal. Everyone that decides to make that deal has a reason. Just because you don't have a reason to sell to someone cheap or buy from someone high does not mean that the deal is not worth it to someone else.

If you go to a soda machine and pay a whole US$1.00 for that little bottle, then you are saying that the convenience of getting it there is worth that US$1.00. Don't turn around and claim the person ripped you off. You chose to buy. If everyone refused to buy at that price, they would probably get the soda cheaper.

The Do's
1. Look in Find before you sell your First Land. Spend at least 5 minutes looking at how others priced before selling your first land.
2. Get friends together who have not bought first land to buy a big chunk so you can build something together. Be careful about officers of group land though, it is possible for them to steal the land for their own profit.
3. Try to get the small amount of waterfront land and hill top land before it all goes.
4. Try to get Mature land, it will be worth more.

The Dont's
1. Don't sell the land for L$1000, you can get more.
2. Don't deed your land to a group with officers you can't trust.
3. Don't set your land to $L1 to buy from your group and leave it sitting for sale while you go to the bathroom.
4. Don't build things like giant garbage cans to scare off 8 of your neighbors.

I'm still not sure what I think about the alts getting first land. It is part of the package you buy from Linden Labs. I have not seen any policy stating you should not buy first land, however I don't think it would be right to get alts soley for the purpose of buying first land. It is a limited thing. Leave it for those buying for the first time, or at least for those actually making a second character who need a new house.

Although short of an actual policy, there IS a Linden comment in the latest issue of the Metaverse Messenger, to wit:


http://www.metaversemessenger.com/PDF/MM-2005-10-11.pdf

As quoted in Katt Kongo's article, "[Robin] Linden stated succinctly that First Land is for people who haven't owned land before, and alts don't count as new residents who haven't owned land before."

There is, of course, more to it than the above statement would indicate. Go read it for yourself.

EDIT: If you are still looking for some land, some of us have it available and reasonably priced, too.

Of course, she doesn't own all the land for resale. But it's fairly easy to come to a conclusion like that when those damned white Anshe Chung for sale boxes are so ubiquitous.

Yeah, you do that and will eventually find the land you want (and guess get it from who you want.)

First land added by the Lindens seems to be sold as soon as it becomes available, but more plots will be available again. So have a look each day and buy when you are ready.

You do not have to buy land the day you join. It's just as much fun to build in the sandbox

As for Anshe, business is business. I can only hope that my second life will end up as successful.

Good advice..I almost lost my land because I accidentally set it for sale, took a phone call, and before I could change the amount it was bought...luckily the person was honest and sold it back to me.

As far as alts getting first land...I don't think it's ok if it's specifically to sell for profit, but if you have a first land plot and you also have an alt., and you see the plot next to you is for sale as first land, and you want a bigger plot, I don't see anything wrong with it. I mean otherwise you'd have to wait for someone to buy it, and then wait for them to sell it, or go looking for a bigger plot that's not way overpriced. Considering how hig some land is selling for I personally don't see any reason why someone shouldn't take a good deal when they can. Though I think it's nasty if someone is buying it all up with alts to make a profit....but the biggest question is, are they really making a profit at $9.95 US a pop?

Greetings, Natalie. It seems you are refering in your posting to prices on the Dreamland continent, which is just one of many choices we offer. In your comparison you forgot the fees that Linden Lab charges for your premium account.

In fact you have to pay Linden Lab 15$ monthly to be able to own 1024sqm on the mainland, while in Dreamland you can just keep a basic account and pay us 8$.

Our Starter Land plots are 1024sqm for 1024 L$ mature waterfront. Linden Lab's First Land plots are 512sqm for 512 L$ and the terrain type and rating are usually rather random.

For 15$ monthly you can already own 3072sqm in Dreamland. On the mainland you already pay 25$ for just 2560sqm. And on it goes.

There aren't any PayPal fees that you get charged. It is us who have to pay all those fees. I don't know about your particular situation with currency conversion. But I would assume that no matter if you use PayPal or a credit card you get hit with a margin hidden in the exchange rate. At least that is what we experienced when using our Euros to pay on the internet.

And of course you get a better product in Dreamland. But, hey, we have a lot of land on the mainland for sale as well. It is all about choices and that is what we are working for: giving you a lot of options to choose from *g*

I can assure you that dealings with First Land are and have always been really insignificant for our business. I also can't remember any instance where Anshe or I have actually approached some newbie about First Land. But we have newbies seeking us out, which is why we want to encourage discussion and hope that something comes from this thread that we can point newbies towards for sake of reference. What Anshe posted is just how we see things. If the community at large comes up with something else and makes a decent guide from it, we will gladly point newbies there.

What if someone else wants First Land and they haven't bought any? The spirit of the program is First Land. You don't see anything wrong with it, but I do. And if you don't think it's for profit, what if someone does buy 2 or 3 pieces or say 5 pieces of First Land with their alts, How long do you think it will be before they want to move on? Don't you think they are going to sell that land for a nice profit.

I bought my First Land. Then as my neighbors bought First Land and moved on, I bought from them. Yes there was other First Land beside my First Land and I wanted it. But I understood the word First. I don't even understand why this debate keeps popping up. One person can only do one thing First once. Even if they look different. The experiencse is their first.

But the bigger issue is, when a new person, and actual person buying land for the First time, is not able to find First Land because someone's alt has bought it, it is not fair.

Oh great another post about the alt-first land non-issue.

For what its worth I think this is agood thread. My advice to newbies would be to hold 9on to you your first land much longer than you think you want to. Areas change in SL constantly, and your 512 first land may ultimately be more valuable when the neighboors have bought up the land around you.

Unless you absolutely need to sell it, I would buy my second property with linden I purchased (or made), and keep the firsst land. At the very least you might rent it.