Banned on 4 sides! Responsibility for lost prims?

In the following please realise I am talking only about the Linden given built into SL security measures for land and not security scripts.

Fact:These are built into the tools given to us by the Lindens.
Fact: The Lindens have repeatedly supported the landowners priveledge to do as they choose on thier land. Witness the diffuculties removing the Bush guys signage.
Fact: Unless these bars are erected on 4 sides enclosing another property with the intention of griefing and a Linden agrees this is griefing the land owner will not be required to take them down.

Now we can all argue the uses of these bars till we are blue in the face. Some will say its my right to use them and state the reason of thier choice for using them (or no reason). And others will argue that they inconvienience their travels or are an eyesore. Neither side will give and inch. The argument will continue.

We can also argue the effectiveness of these bars till we are blue in the face.

none of these arguments however changes the facts. Landowners can use this tool as they choose to and in the majority of cases the Lindens will side with the landowners in their right to do this.

Maybe it is not how you want SL to be or maybe it suits you just fine. I can only suggest that if you want a change start a vote for a change to this feature. Work your but off drumming up support. Then pray someone at LL actually does something about it. Endless arguments solve Nothing.

I don't believe that anyone is denying that people have a fundamental right to be negligent, lazy, stupid, or antisocial.

It sounds like large part of this argument could be resolved by having ability in the client to toggle rendering of ban lines on/off, like it can do with many other elements of game world..?

Hrm not since we switched the land to access only. And a stranger just coming in was exactly the reason we did so. We have since had busy bodies land on the roof and be on neighboring land.



And this would be where I plead right to be lazy. I want my privacy controls to be use once and just work after that not toggle every time we come and go.(Since Linden privacy controls don't actually test to see if an allowed person is on the land before banning someone else)



Since our problem is random newbies we can't create a list of intruders because we haven't met them yet.



The why would be in response to privacy violations.


Actually since the ban goes right up to the roof all it allows is someone to hover and cam in. In which case they have a wide open invitation for an AR since the land alrdy makes it clear they are unwanted. And since your problem is a neighbor issue do you have good enough relations to ask to be on the access list or have you alrdy antagonized him/her for excercising their right to privacy?

Make that "landowner" as well... so that visitors to my land aren't faced with redlines without me wasting prims to try and hide the naive newbie's (or the antisocial bastard's) pointless ban lines... and you've got a deal.

If you're not there how do you know to AR them?Every case where I have been able to talk to my neighbor about his or her ban lines he or she has been more than happy to turn them off. Not just add me and the visitors to my land to their access list, but turn off the exclusive ban completely. Which is what I need, because just as you don't know who's going to wander onto your land[1] I don't know who's going to want to visit mine.

Not one of them even knew that the lines were a problem, one of them didn't even know she had them on and I had to explain how to turn them off.

There are two neighbors who have put the lines up and then gone walkabout, and one who seems to show up for about 5 minutes every Tuesday or Wednesday but neither answers IMs nor sticks around for me to talk to... I suspect he or she is a stipend-farming alt... but if so I'm surprised their land isn't up for sale.

There really should be a clear, obvious, and unignorable indication from INSIDE the banned area that there's an exclusive ban up... because it's too easy to do without understanding what you're doing when you play around with the land controls the first time.

[1] Speaking of which: for the accidental visitor a script that does no more than politely ask them to leave is going to be just as effective as a "security script" or exclusive bans. And for someone who won't take that kind of hint, the access controls aren't any more than a goad.

If I'm not there what need's ARed? Your question strikes me as irrelevant. If we aren't there our privacy can't be invaded.



We think they accomplish enough to be worth while.

That, old bean, is precisely the point. When you're not there you don't need access controls up.
Only because you're passing the 'cost' on to other people.

Then make a voting proposal that access controls only function when an allowed individual is on the property. I come and go many times a day every day I'm not manually toggling it and there is no script to do it for me.



Considering I'm the one paying $100US/mo for the land and the explorers aren't giving me a penny I could care less.

I'm not sure how to take your first comment. Do you mean to say that you agree with me rather than Jonas about the desirability of having access controls that don't operate when you're not logged in (or even not on the property) and it's unfortunate that this isn't the default? Or is it just a brush-off?

What about my idea that there should be an obvious visual indicator for people inside a "protected" parcel?
I think you mean you "couldn't care less".

Glad you agree about the negative externailities of ban-lines, anyway.

The thing I was gettng at earlier is that the afflicted individuals aren't the explorers so much as your neighbours. I suppose that if you're next to a void and you're sucking down $100 for tier it's possible that you're spending more than the affected neighbors ... and of course they're not paying you. But in my case, none of the people involved seems to be paying any tier over the Premium Account level, and I'm carrying 4096.

Yes, if controls only functioned when we were home I wouldn't have a problem with that.



No, put the coding time into making it more effective and eliminating the external lines. As a simple fix make them transparent unless you collide with them then they are visible for 30 seconds and continued attempts to push against the line makes you fly up till you get over it. Also for your absentee neighbors they wouldn't be around to see a visual indicator.




My neighbors are rarely online much less home and not one has approached me about the lines.

ps I think the perfect alternative is banned avatars have full access to the parcel but nothing contained in the parcel renders. It appears to them as an empty parcel with no build on and an instant autoreturn. Also Banned avatars should not be visible from within the parcel. That way you don't see people casually flying through walls or hovering half inside you.

I disagree. I first started using the ban lines preciesly because I was sick and damn tired of coming home to my land and finding total strangers doing the nasty in my house. Worse yet getting unpleasant with me for interrupting them. Yeah access controls up when I am not there have a point.

You obviously have a better poseball collection than I do.

Sounds like a job for dummy poseballs. Maybe... teleport them to a random location 500 meters away in another sim. I can provide you with a script that'l let you drop them anywhere in 512 meters and a goodly proportion of the time they'll be stuck in a random pose until they relog.

Let the punishment fit the crime.

And it won't bother innocent visitors.

I don't want my banned list on my property even if I'm offline. Call me traditional but I wouldn't want people going through my stuff just because I'm at work offline.

Moot point now that we moved to the Island but back then it was a big deal. Particularly since I make animations and some of what they were playing with was not yet ready for release. I much rather use a LInden given tool than any script no matter how well written. Even good ones add up in a sim and can with enough of them slow it down.

For any reason or no reason. 's my land.

I *do* try to be polite about it, and don't generally blanket restrict land unless I'm in the middle of something, but if I individually add someone to the ban list - that's my buisness and nobody elses. I don't need to justify my reasons to an outside group, and I damn well never will.

lol, oh my! "Red Lines' are truly like playing with RL electric fences sometimes.

a while back i had a feud with a neighbor (for reasons not relevant enough to go into), but anyways, they decided to utilize the 'Red Line Solution' and Ban me from thier land from three sides around two seperate 512^m parcels i owned. I was tempted to retaliate with my own 'Red Lines' with thier name on them BUT instead i left thier ename off the ban lsit and instead utilized the kick all tiki torch (this device will not cross over and out side of your land boundaries therefore keeping you in the TOS and CS Lines) and it was quite effective if not entertaing at times to watch as the neighbor over the Red Hedges would inadvertantly stray over onto my land whilst wrking on ther stuff ( probably trying ot get a better camera angle at an object) and thus being hurled back immedialtely to thier (using teleport agent home) own abode jarrlingly.

Needless to say the feud finally ended when they realized that it it was pointless to put up such visable borders against me.

so. dont get too frustrated. I agree with the OP and like to find solutions to a problem rather than whine and have a good laugh while i'm at it.

*snerk*

Access controls won't keep people from going through your stuff unless you're up around the quarter sim level and adjacent to a void and running aggressive security scripts to supplement them. But, whatever, I don't have a huge beef about inclusive access controls... the "these people are banned" kind.

But what about exclusive access controls... all but "this list of people" or "this group"? They're not on your banned list, do you have a reason for leaving that kind of ban up when you're offline, other than it's a pain to turn it on or off?

Same question.
Ah, so they weren't just messing around in your home, they were messing around in your business and doing the equivalent of rifling through commercial files.

I keep scripts I'm not ready to release in my inventory, myself, but ok... that's a special case. And if I had an ongoing business that was making enough money I'd look into a private sim myself, or talk to someone who's already got some about setting up an "office park" estate for R&D.

Maybe there's a business opportunity there.

// Modification for any poseball script for "security"
//... add to globals
key suspect;
key perp;
string suspect_name;
//... insert this code at the beginning of "touch_start"
suspect = llDetectedKey(0);
key owner = llGetOwner();
if(suspect != owner && llAvatarOnSitTarget() != owner)
  llSensor("", owner, AGENT, 95, PI);

//... insert this code at the beginning of "listen(chan,name,agent,message)"
suspect = agent;
key owner = llGetOwner();
if(suspect != owner && llAvatarOnSitTarget() != owner)
  llSensor("", owner, AGENT, 95, PI);

//...insert in the "changed" event after you've determined that someone's sat down
suspect = sitting_agent;
key owner = llGetOwner();
if(suspect != owner)
  llSensor("", owner, AGENT, 95, PI);

//...and then add this event inside "default {...}"
no_sensor()
{
  state secured;
}

//... and then...
state secured
{
  state_entry()
  {
    vector air = <llFrand(256),llFrand(256),llFrand(128)+64>;
    air += llGround(air);
    llSitTarget(air - llGetPos(),ZERO_ROTATION);
    llSetTimerEvent(60);
    llSensorRepeat("", llGetOwner(), AGENT, 95, PI, 5);
    if(llAvatarOnSitTarget() == suspect)
      llUnSit(suspect);
    perp = NULL_KEY;
    suspect_name = llKey2name(suspect);
  }
  changed(integer what)
  {
    if(changed & CHANGED_LINK)
    {
      perp = llAvatarOnSitTarget();
      if(perp == llGetOwner())
        llOwnerSay("Sorry boss, you done snuck up on me!");
      llUnSit(perp);
      llSleep(0.3);
      llUnSit(perp);
      state default;
    }
  }
  timer()
  {
    state default;
  }
  sensor(integer n)
  {
    llOwnerSay("Hi boss, "+suspect_name+" was snooping around.");
    if(perp) llOwnerSay("But I done run 'em off!");
    state default;
  }
  state_exit()
  {
    suspect = NULL_KEY;
    suspect_name = "";
  }
}

This adds no more overhead than the poseball script itself, because it's not leaving any events active that the poseball script wasn't already using.
I started putting this sign up on redlines next to my land, and handing out copies to people with the same problem. IM me in-world if you want one.