Declaration of Civility

In the very thread that merely welcomed our new Economist, we forum denizens managed to stir up a fight amongst ourselves.

It was very reminiscent of those films of foreign governments, when you see lawmakers in suits shoving and swinging at each other in the aisles.

So I'm drafting (and signing) a Declaration of Civility.


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I, being interested in the Land and Economy of Second Life, will:

- Keep commentary as short as possible,

- Not carry a 'crusade' issue into more than five unrelated threads,

- Not rebut any individual's opposing idea more than 10 times in a week,

- Try to peacefully express views to the Economist and others,

- Read the writing on the wall, and let issues go once thoroughly covered,

- Actually read what other people are saying before responding to it,

- Behave with decorum.


Signed, Desmond Shang, this 24th day of March 2006.


Friends, trolls, countrymen, who else cares to be signatory to these seven simple line items?

I know all too well what you're talking about--and to have that shame documented for posterity on the Internet.

I sign too, as it's perfectly consistent with the Community Standards.

I'm all for order in the L&E forum, I'll sign. We are all adults here why can't we talk and discuss issues like adults. Sometimes the discussions can get down right childish. Good Idea Desmond once again just tell me were to sign.

I will sign as long as I am still allowed to post pictures.

I guess I can retire my wooden beating stick and sign as well. I will try to behave. I still want to hear something from the economist in the forum though. I want to know he's listening.

What new economist? I've heard alot of rants from idiots who obviously flunked ECON 101, all of whom are pontificating about the falling value of the Lindenbuck, but have not seen any official appointment by the Lindens of an "official" to deal with that specific problem.

INFLATION = TOO MUCH MONEY IN THE ECONOMY

That's all. Unfortunately, the only way to fix it is for LL to STOP SELLING LINDENS AT ALL THRU LINDEX, and force everyone to buy their Lindens (above and beyond their stipends, which the Lindens have a contractual agreement to issue every week) from private sellers.

Whenever someone uses USD to buy Lindenbucks through Lindex in order to buy an island or a sim, they inject a _HUGE_ amount of Lindens into the SL economy. This IN ITSELF drives the value of the Linden down.

Sims and island are not bought with Lindens painstakingly saved from residents' 500L stipends.... they are bought with US dollars which _CREATE_ NEW LINDENS THROUGH LINDEX.

This is not all that hard to understand, people, and unless LL decides NOT to sell entire sims or islands for the next 6mos to a year, IT AIN'T GONNA CHANGE!!!!

Just curious, exactly how the lindex creates money out of thin air? From my understanding, people put up their money for sale on the lindex, and then someone else buys it off the lindex. NEW_MONEY is not introduced through the lindex. It is introduced through stipends, and dwell bonus. Sorry I had to correct you there, but you were going to fall off the cliff.

then don't crusade for civility

Apologies in advance Desmond, I'll try to keep this well-behaved.
I think you just flunked Eco 101, Merlyn (can I just ask, do Americans really call their subjects that?). No $L are created when someone buys $L in $US on the Lindex. The Lindens already exist, they're already in the economy, they're merely changing hands. If someone buys a huge amount of Lindens, it has precisely the opposite effect you described.

I'd rather see that in the US Congress than see congresscritters get together for "floor meetings" and make deals off-the-record. EVERYTHING said in congress should be a matter of public record, or they should allow journalists onto the floor where they have a chance of overhearing the dirty deals.

When Bob Hawke appeared on TV covered in champagne and declared an impromptu holiday after Australia II won the America's Cup, that's the only time ever I've been proud of a Labor Party politician. I think the US needs a little less civility and a little more common down-to-earth humanity like that.

Signed

(the original thread, not the hijackers)

"should" "ought" and other imperatives of that ilk (even when not overtly stated) are no better than incivility itself. they are statements of moral or social superiority.

the question to some extent is whether or not the message is more important than the manner the message is delivered.

a demand for civility often stiffles messages that are ill-manneredly stated. but the loss of ideas may be a greater blow to the discourse than incivility in the discourse.

a call for civility should point out that messages get lost in the manner. a call for civility that emphasizes manner over message mistakes the sign for the signified.

not everyone is a silver-tongued bard, should sweet words be required - simply because of their sweetness - then many sound ideas would never get aired.

Not so sure about this one (initial post)

I have had experience of participating in online communities since 1995 and in my opinion groups of people who become too civilised eventually die out as no one dares to post or communicate a view away from some type of perceived "norm"

The reason for the death is perhaps boredom twined with underling manipulation by the online group dominant controllers.

In any free society you need genuine debate and freedom to express most views to enable the community to remain fresh and relevant.

Finally I agree you get the odd online troll, but in isolation they can be dealt with by the use of the filter or ignore button and in rare cases an outright ban. Generally most people do learn to police themselves, or leave anyway

Of course this is my own personal view, others may see things differently

Blame Canada ?

I think Vasudha would have drawn a more productive and positive discussion from residents, if the conversation had been seeded with some thoughts/ideas/observations of their own. To be frank, without that, and with little further contribution to the thread, it came off like 'my idea is to get your ideas'. I think people were very interested to hear more from LL's economist. Many of us would have welcomed being 'bored' with economic theory and information. Insight into LL's thinking on these issues would have been very interesting.

That kind of agreement of civility shouldn't even be needed in the first place

I reserve my right to find this the most comicaly entertaining section of the forum, and to post nonsense not related to much at all just like the 'experts'.

/signed

I'm not sure this is going to help though. I don't see anyone who has signed this thread that has stirred up trouble before.

To the idea that this would kill the L&tE forum. Don't you think it's already dead? There is rarely any edifying discourse that I can find. Personally, I decided that I will rarely post in this forum anymore. You can't discuss anything in this forum without it becoming circus. I would love to have a place to discuss economic ideas in an atmosphere of curiousity and respect. It's one of the more interesting facets of SL to me. There are plenty of ideas and topics I've had that I haven't posted and doubt I'll ever post, because I don't have the time or energy to deal with thread drama that will likely follow.

Bullseye.

indeed, if ideas where discussed without all the "OMG WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO THE $L DROPPED IN VALUE 0.000001%" it would actualy be a rather interesting forum.
As it is that is all pretty much every thread I have read consists of, even those that start out promising are soon derailed in to the usual, by the same usual suspects too.

SL has an interesting economy, but the $L rising and falling in value is not what is interesting, it's barely even a discussion point.

Where do I sign? Ah, there!

On the one hoof, I am concerned over the potential "stifling" of different opinions that might occur. I can't help but look at the analogy to Congress. The English language (apologies to those from England present) covers the US government word all to well. As Gallagher points out, "If con is the opposite of pro, then congress is the opposite of progress". Most of our Congressional leaders are too firmly entrenched in their positions, and have lost touch with the world and, more importantly, their constituents that put them there to begin with. Debate and rhetoric have been subsumed by the more important philosophy of politcal party fiefdom.

On the other hoof, I would like to see some discussions contain more detail and backing material, rather than "I told you so", or "I am a great economic mind, listen to me". Run some numbers. Calculate some estimates. Clarify your positions. Entice others into wanting to check them for themselves. Reasonable debate would be a good thing, and would inspire potential ideas. Most importantly of all, keep an open mind.

Hello all SL fans, me I am a RED SOX Fan. I am new to this SL Economy stuff, but I am sure its the same in RL. There is one link that I have made from reading all your post
that most maybe forgetting FOLKS ITS JUST A GAME.

i JOINED TO HAVE FUN NOT TO GET RICH

Evidence for either of these initial assertions please?