The Death of Geography - the coffin is nailed ! No more "Virtual World".

Absolutely.

Consider the following example of this amazing new griefing opportunity:

Player A has a 512m plot. Player B has a large adjacent estate, wishes to extend, and buys up the land surrounding player A. He goes "group access only" thus caging Player A in a tiny vertical tunnel 200m high. Without teleporting the only way B can leave or enter his plot is via this vertical tunnel. Getting home would require finding an almost invisible tiny plot-sized hole in the ban ceiling, probably whilst out of sight of the ground.

But wait - it's worse. Player A has no money or know-how for a high-fly attachment. He finds he cannot rise anywhere near as high as 200m. He simply cannot leave or arrive by flying at all, even if he is willing to thread the needle of this pencil-thin vertical shaft.

Why did he choose this particular plot ? Something nearby? A mall ? A lake ? A pretty view ? A nearby friend ?

Suddenly and without warning he/she can no longer reach any of them without teleporting, which can be done from anywhere.

He/she might as well sell to Player A and move out of this unbelievable Linden sanctioned trap.

Yes indeed, Ryder. Not just the death of geography, but the ultimate griefing tool, courtesy of the management, and apparently intended to achieve the opposite effect.

This is truly ludicrous, and surely should be reversed immediately while other solutions are sought.

When the first victim of this complains, what on earth will the Lindens say ? Just teleport and get over it ? Unbelievable.

I do hope you all read that LL will be revising the way the walls work? They'll be making it that only the ban lines go to 200+ground. The other lines will return to lower heights.

Well I keep my Land open to the public so they can fly around .. land on the airfield in the sky .. totally up to them .. neva have and neva will like this land locking and ban walls .. looks kinda silly lol

My land (excluding the bit arund the skybox) is clear. I'll only be banning unverified accounts.

I would like to see land locking removed totally and replaced with area/item locking.
If you want privacy lock your house, not the 8k plot its sitting in. This can carry though for your outdoor pools, chairs, boats etc.
Lock them at item level instead of land level.
This would also be nice for other land options like no fly, no script, no build etc.
Make your shop no fly and the land outside no build etc

Ellie this is not a new griefing opportunity. You're describing the exact same scenario we've suffered for months and years when people rez griefing builds next to, or almost all the way around, small land owners that won't sell. It's no more sinister than people setting ugly billboards on 16sm lots priced at 500,000L.

What has Linden Lab's and Philip's precious fucking commuuuuunity's response been all along? Simply that people can do anything they want on their land. It's not required that people act sociably or respectfully in Second Life. LL have never enforced such an edict and the population have never demanded it. People complain about it, but ultimately don't want any restrictions imposed because we would all have to adhere to them and that would, apparently, destroy our freedom utterly.

I also agree with the first post but then I also wonder who comes to SL looking for privacy?

I AGREE that this Locking of Property is Bullshit. The other day when the teleporter where
down, as they are most of the time. I took off flying to my destination and low and behold
i got stuck in a secure area. I couldn't go up I couldn't go down left right i was out by the sea tried to head out that way. I couldnt It was like Smashing into a Fucking Brick wall.It was like being in a fucking maze i was so pissed. So i logged off. When i came back on the next day I was still stuck and my BF came and recused me. I noticed in my inventory that
I had all kinds of Notecards from these places tring sell me everying from KY jelly to Dildo's land.ect...I did not ask or accept these cards so I reported them for Spam also who knows, I could have been a minor.

Zack

Not totally, no. But to fence a 512 plot in with 200m walls so that flying in/out is actually impossible without flying assistance would need approx 120 prims, and a bit of building effort. It would also be visible to everyone, and at least the way in would be clearly visible for those with flight enhancement.

Now this option is available with no prim cost, no building effort, no visible indication to others from a distance, all with a single click.

It can even be done by accident, either as a complete trap, or a maze of invisible walls/deadends which are effectively impossible to negotiate.

Dividing citizens into three classes, and allowing auto-discrimination is coming, it seems. Will this mean that for first class citizens there is no mass possible exclusion at all, or back to the old lower limit which can be easily overflown? We do not yet know.

And what of events charging for entry by the "pass system". I hear rumours this exclusion is currently 400m high !! How is class of citizen relevant to this ?

I am afraid this entire new approach seems ill-thought out and divisive. Huge numbers of us will immediately ban the third-class (or even 2nd-class) citizens, who will then have a bad experience, making them less likely to subscribe.

I have a suggestion.

The system could rank avatars by the number of landowners who have set up individual land access bans against them. Each group or individual owner counts one point, regardless of the number of their plots.

Flag each avatar in, say, five grades, according to how many bans he has.

Allow the landowner to select which grades, if any, to ban.

Also, make the ban height different for each grade, worst offenders 200m, those with very few bans 10m.

This will motivate people to get down to a lower grade, and maybe even apologize or make friends to get their grade down.

We could make an individual land ban last only 8 weeks, after which time it need a click to renew it. So people who stopped offending others could be rehabilitated.

If the grade of an avatar could be checked by script, vendors could refuse to sell to the griefers, giving more motivation to improve.

To reduce ganging up, ie someone leading a big group against a victim, we could say that all the bans from members of the same group just count as one point against the banned person.

Needs a bit of polishing, but a form of "discriminatory banning" is already on the way, and I would like it based on something more directly related to griefing than how a person registers to play.

Whether any of the various threads here, objecting, actually had any influence, we cannot say.

But thank goodness - and thank Lindens - with this update we have what looks like a good solution. Blanket bans 50m, named bans 768m (I think that's it ?).

Praise be - we can explore again, and fly about......... grand !

Potential for a landowner to grief his neighbors is worsened further, of course, but that's another matter. Most important is the restoration of the right to fly and the reinstatement of the mainland as a connected geographic unit.

y'know, while anyone who has read my own posts knows where I stand on the "privacy" issue... (the ability to have a private moment is good; putting big thick NO ACCESS lines all over your land to all passerby seems to miss the point)

I wasn't aware the existence of "No trespassing" signs, no-fly zones, etc, made the real world devoid of geography.

Come on now, Aliasi - concentrate !

I bored the pants off everyone in the first post of the thread trying to establish exactly that hypothesis, and explain what I meant by it.

You're right, we have been through this before...

I think the response to this was that RL has protected access roads to every parcel, guaranteeing that navigation is possible without entering someone else's land.

In SL, without these protected access roads the only navigation is to go through someone else's land (thus affected by these ban rules) or TP (which "eliminates geography"

That was someone's response. I don't think it is true, and even if it were, roads cannot be relied upon to get you where you want. Do we even have a road map usable for long distance planning? Flying along them is not the answer.

Luckily, with ban height back to 50m, that problem is now largely solved, and hopefully we needn't bother with it any more, so long as we are in the correct citizen-class when the next change comes in.

Ok, maybe I am missing something here, but ..lol I have been on SL over a year, and I have never really seen the point of banning everyone from my land. There have been some occasions when I did not want to be bothered, put ban on for a while, then took it back off.
It's ugly, it's annoying to run into, and what is the point really? If you are worried about being attacked or something *chuckles* just set your land to group with a 1 minute autoreturn, and set it so nobody can create objects there to start with.
What are people so scared of? Someone might drop by and speak to you? or, sit on your virtual furniture, or maybe swim in YOUR pixel swimming pool..oh my!!
It's not like they are able come in and rob you or something LOL
I don't know, it all seems a bit silly to be on a game that (I thought) was supposed to encourage meeting other people, having fun, socializing, and that sort of thing- and instead everyone has the walls up. Like I said before, if you want to have total privacy for a while, cut the ban on....sure, but I dont see the point of having it on when your not even on?

Kaila,

If you perused other threads you will encounter these people who scream at the top of their lungs "This is my land and no one should be able to go on or over it! I paid for it! I don't care if they're passing through, I own this plot up to infinity!" That sums up the stand of the worst of them.

For them it's not a matter of privacy. It's ownership. IMO overly possessive and selfish ownership.

"Do unto others as you want others to do to you" is an adage that exists in several of the major world religions. I want to be able to fly over others' properties so I myself actually delight in flyovers, it may mean a new friend ... and in my short time as a landholder, that has already happened. I just keep my house private with my security system. I'm set on no-script and no-build so I'm protected from griefers. But I will have to accept that my vehicles or devices will fail to function in other people's places. Then again, I'm willing to live with that inconvenience because it means that they also are safe from grief.

Just musing here. Should we go on a campaign to identify those that are overly possessive then everyone puts them on their ban list? They don't want people on or flying over their property so I guess they won't mind at all if no one lets them fly over.

Hi everyone

Pesonally I agree with the original poster - at least to an extent. I wouldn't go as far as to say its dead, but travel across sims is getting harder and harder.

Just the other day I was playing around with an aircar I had just bought, and my partner and I went to visit some houses she was renting out - someone wanted to rent one and wanted to speak to her about it in person. As we were only about 1000m away we decided to fly there. Started out well, but as we got nearer we started to bounce off barriers all the time. Got thrown across the sim twice, unseated from the non-physical vehicle a similar amount of times, got stuck between barriers, and generaly made to scream and yell as the journey that should have taken about a minute or less too about ten!

Personally I am all in favor of the idea of barriers only being active when the owner is online. Fine - you want privacy(false assumption anyway - there isnt any) - turn barriers on when you are THERE. When you are not there - so what?

Just my opinion of course, but there it is.

Timmins

Absolutely! If you could lock properties - not the land they are on that would be MUCH better for most uses. Imagine being able to rez a blocking field around your house that went ONLY round your house, and ONLY up to the roof of your house! That would be great.

So, ok people would be able to put their cams through the barrier - well they can now. There are ways of unlocking your cam so you can see a great distance - even people blocking their parcels are not free from snooping cams and they wouldnt even know that someone is watching them.

So make block "blocks" that can be rezzed whereever you want them on your land. Make them real building blocks possibly - that way people have to count them against their prims and wouldnt use them if they didnt need them!

Completely agree Kaila,

At the end of the day what does it matter if someone comes and sits on your furniture when you are not there? Does it harm you? No! Can they wreck the place? Well not if you have auto return on and no build etc. Can they harrass you? Well if you are not there then no. If you are "in" and you have problems with people then sure - turn the blocks on, but "generally" there is no real reason to leave them on all the time. Of course I accept that they may be exceptions to this but generally its the case.

This post isnt a dig at anyone just my own personal view.

SL to me is a place to come have fun and be away from RL, its a place where you can let go , and use your full imigination, but to me it seems SL and RL are becoming one .. Class distinction been one of the items alone making its way into SL.

I for one dont want to do a hard days work .. log into SL and be in a copy of the RL, i can do that by just walking out my front door.

Maybe im just synical lol who knows but thats just me lol

True, there is no need for security orbs or ban lines, that irritate everyone else regardless of who they are.

If you have a house and don't want people playing with your 'sex balls', then why not just get a lockable front door that only opens to a list of names that you provide. They're not expensive, and readily available.

If you have a skybox... don't. Build on the ground, that's what it's there for. Make a basement, nobody can see you then.

I'd love to know how many people *really* get bombarded with unwanted visitors. I can think of only two occasions in the 9 months I've been here, both of those were due to 'friend map stalking', and I only didn't want to be disturbed because I was setting something up for a friend in their house, and I needed to change some scripts and needed to keep track of what I was doing.

The solution to both of those? "Sorry I'm kinda busy right now" was all it took for the person to wander off and do something else, and I messaged them when I was free and we chatted. Big deal eh?

I don't know why 90% of the SL population seem paranoid and anthropophobic. Must be something in the water.

Lewis

Basement next to laggy club or open view skybox, hmm. Staying with the skybox, I won't ever build my main home on the ground. Thats what the sky is for. Why build a normal house when one can build itno the imagination by having a castle above the clouds? This is secondlife, a place for us to have our fantasies - including fariy cloud castles.

Yes, it harms me. Psychologically I get creeped out by the idea. Theres a six second warning on my land - 5 is still too much imo, but I'm giving some room, let flyers compromise too.

My sense of humor was surgically removed. The new CyberHumor(tm) chip I use instead sometimes goes on the blink.