Auction Monopoly and Rising Land Cost

Not to stray too far off topic, but you are telling me that economic growth of 1945 and on, had nothing to do with the World War II? WWII was what pulled the economy out of the gutter. Most of the "New Deal" hurt the recovery of the economy far more then it helped it. There are some experts that say the "New Deal" actually prolonged the economic hardship of the time. Government cannot create jobs to stablize an economy for the long term.

Thank you seth, this is exactly what I was trying to get across in this thread. Only the lindens should have economy control, and not the citizens. No matter how powerful you are in world, you are still a citizen like the rest, and need to abide by the rules. We need more control from the lindens on the game, otherwise the economy WILL drive people out of the game, and into a new game that is less expensive to be creative with. Linden Labs states that SL aws created for everyone to have an unlimited ability to express there imaginatio nand creativity. I doubt that when the game was first created, the idea of having to spend hundreds of US$ to express your creativity was not a factor. Somewhere SL lost its original vision, or the vision of free market world has had its unforseen downfalls of allowing cartels to take over. I like to have fun in a game, not be ruled by a cartel. As it stands, if things in SL keep going on this path, I and many other people will not be around much longer. SL just isn't as fun as it was 2 years ago. I noticed the decline in good clean fun when GOM hit SL, and auctions started selling in US$ more primarily than L$. Why couldn't we just stay with L$ and keep US$ out of the game. Its not a game anymore, and its losing its sparkle it had when I first joined. I could care less about what land is going for. Its the fact that players control your game now thats bad. oh yes, and as for the "world dictator" lable I put under my name, its a joke. I did it to be funny hahaha. have a sense of humor people. ITS A GAME! or at least I thought it was.

I find that list the most compelling counterargument. If the Lindens have begun providing more small lots and if those small lots have proven unattractive or unprofitable to big dealers, then no further changes are needed for the time being.

Of course, the last time I looked at small Linden lots, they were largely odd shapes in awkward locations.... but that actually adds to the fun, from my perspective.

If you look at the "tiering down" thread, what is more the case is that people who made large land purchases are tiering down or being driven from the game, and it's because either land devalues too much due to too much Linden supply of new land, or too many game performance issues, log-in problems, etc.

It strikes me that both camps in this debate use the boycott and "vote-with-my-feet" threat or actual deed a lot of the time. One side says "stop making land valuable in US dollars for whatever value people place on it or I'm outta here!". The other side says "Stop the anti-business climate in SL and improve performance or I'm outta here."

I guess the Lindens can count on members of both camps to be periodically mollified by something they do right so that one camp never seems to overbalance the other.

I'm starting to believe that nothing smaller than a full sim should be sold by Linden Lab. The Lindens should sell a full, mainland sim for a fixed cost (perhaps US$1200 or the L$ equivalent), in equal proportion to what they the L$/US$ auctions they have now.

Then let it be themed, cut up, and so on from there. But allow anyone to do it, whether they want to "auction watch" and play the eBay game... or not.

I also think the smallest parcel that should be allowed to be owned is 2048. There should be entire special sims of 512 plots which get "recycled" amongst new users to allow them to decide if they want to own land or not. When you sign up for your trial, you get a 512 meter plot for free for the trial period to play with. After your trial period, you have to decide whether to pay your $10, go premium, or buy at least 2048 meters.

Just my two cents.

-Flip

I think one of the ways that LL creates an immersive world is by making it like the Real Word in its randomness, it's requests for tolerance of diversity and multiplicity.

If LL were to take the servers and cut them up into full sims that anyone could buy for a fixed price, and have a newb zone of 512s that people would enter and exit as newb hell, the world would become far less immersive, far more static, far more dull, and wouldn't attract people.

Who wants to go sign up to live in newb hell in a ghetto district? Part of the allure of the newb 512 now is that you can shop all over the grid, in old sims and brand new sims, and sometimes see really prime waterfront or pristine forest and get it for your very own. Then you'll find yourself next to a mixture of people, new and old, large and small landowners, not just a lot of other clueless newbs. To be sure, LL often puts you in these postage stamps in the middle of sims that do turn into newb projects and ghettos, and look like hell within 7 days, filled with ugly prefabs, bad building choices, griefing, and flip-flopping land traders.

In that sense, you wish the Lindens would jettison some of these old 20th century project ideas like Jacob Riis or whatever, the idea that the poor should be put in projects that were clean and modern and cheap (i.e. not tenements) but still all in one section of the city, and all densely packed. While they seemed like a good idea when they drained out disease and povery-ridden tenements, a century later they are just drug-infested and high-murder zones. Cities like Philadelphia and Baltimore have tried putting town houses for the poor mixed in more with other classes of people and that sometimes works better.

I'd be for putting the newb land more scattered, and having not just 512 newb land but 1024 as well, in other words, $512 discount, $1024 discount, etc.

512 isn't much and is never enough but it's ok for a few weeks and you can readily string it together with other parcels.

A static price for sims will completely bottom out the land market, make all current major and committed land barons give up on Linden Labs and flee, and make many customers with large parcels they thought could sell some day for at least the same or a similar price than what they got it, also flee it in disgust or remain with simmering anger.

People value land, they pay for it, they are willing to pay for it, the market was already created. *That* is the ideal for most people here, *not* the utopianist ideal of equal distribution of land and caps on land prices. All these new ideas to cap land barons, strip out value, knock down prices, equalize or uniformize prices, dump off diversity, dumb down zoning areas will all sap the life out of Second Life, make it a less immersive place, and make all the people who worked hard on the land business for it -- and even content business -- flee it utter disgust.

I wish people who propose these kinds of radical solutions to fix problems like high land prices would think through the consequences. *Your own land* is the first thing that becomes devalued the minute you reach out to put a cap on a land baron. *Your own neighbourhood* is the first thing that becomes devalued when all sims cost exactly the same.

In TSO, you could just buy anywhere you wanted for exactly the same price -- the game sold it to you. You could buy from another player but that happened less often. A few prize properties got sold on ebay but for the most part the market was a very static one. To keep it that way, they had to make it illegal to exchange the currency, but of course many people did anyway.

Everything depends on whether you want LL to be immersive -- convincing -- but also has its seques to the Real World.

Look people: SL needs less restrictions, not more. You have as much opportunity as the next person to win land at auction. You just have to want it and know your own limits. Quit being crybabies that you don't win at auctions and quite trying to equate SL with the United States during the latter part of the 19th century and the early part of the 20th century.

If you are so gun-ho to leave SL because you don't like the rules because they aren't communist enough for you, then please, do so. It might actually make the game more enjoyable for the rest of us.

Let's look at pure economics: The Linden's auction land in US$ so as they have another revenue stream. Obviously, its makes them money, otherwise they wouldn't do it. They make diddly squat off of land in L$, unless the person purchasing it has to up their tier to cover the land purchase.

Stop bellyaching that the rules don't favor your vision of a communist-utopian society. Play the game, period.

Isn't it ironic that its the people that are well off in SL that don't see a problem? Hmmmm.
In response to the idea of LL actually selling full sims for a set price, I think it is a great idea! and to defend it from our well off friends and land barrons, the land will be a standard price, but completely empty. The ability of someone purchasing an entire sim, to create a sim of utter beauty and themed worth will determin what the seller of that land can sell it for. This way we will have more diverse and themed sims that will still keep its own market share. Maybe some people are a little tired of the same old typical rolling hill grassy sim. The simple semithemed parcels that the land barons just buy and sell without doing anything to it but maybe cut it up. I have seen some of Anshe Chungs personal sims in Ansheland, and I think they are beautiful! If they were on the main grid, I would buy a plot in a heartbeat, no mater what the price! And the ability for a seller to section off his personally terraformed sim on the main grid and sell it on auction with a small percentage to LL would even help LL more in that aspect. The only downfall I would see, is that with more custom terraformed sims by our creative graphics artists, the old land will lose almost all value, and either become abandoned, or just be a great place for newbies to get cheap first land without being in a ghetto! I hope some of the Lindens are watching this thread, I think a lot of us have come up with some very helpful ideas.
I truly believe that if we did this, it would open the land market to a more divers financial range. That means, that if newbies can afford the land, they will get the premium account to get the land, and then they will tier up to buy more land. Which means more people on premium accounts with tiers, and that means more money for LL, and happier people, as they are not overpaying for land, and then having to pay for land tier as well. <<Comments?>>

Well off in SL? I don't think so. I am what's called the middle class. You remember us, right? The ones who work hard and save and build our own futures?

I hunted for a week for land. For good size plots and I found mine. Maybe not all in one big plot, but in smaller plots that I then turned into one large plot. There are bargains galore out there, if you CHOOSE to look for them, instead of whining. Yes, I chose to go out IGE.com so as I could make my land purchases, but who the hell are you to say I can't? If its within the rules, go for it.

As for purchasing entire sims, you already have that ability, you just choose not to excercise it. You instead whine that a private sim isn't attached to the mainland. Guess what, get over it! Quit trying to hamper everyone elses enjoyment by throwing around these silly and idiotic restrictions in order to have your own vision of the perfect communist utopian society become reality.

Timmy, I tend to agree that there are a lot of communist utopianists out there who cramp things, but since my lobotomy, I never link up that really persuasive and persistent thought and perception of mine with any of the actual people in the game here. That's what lobotomies are good for, Timmy, breaking the connective brain tissue. So I have two words for you, Timmy: Juicy Fruit (Big Chief, in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest).

I totally agree that when people like Anshe Chung or Adam Zaius make private sims availble, they add value. But they have to offer them way cheaper than the mainland then because they aren't offering the full monte of ownership that you get on the mainland.

If they could buy private islands that were like the mainland, they could in one sense do more with them, but Anshe's own reaction to a whole load of such sims coming into the game is indicative: she wouldn't favor it because it would land value drop.

Making land value drop prevents value-adders from coming in to add value. My lobotomy must be only partial, because I continue to have that very persistent understanding!

My lobotomy stitches haven't healed completely...so forgive me....I do seem to remember a letter...a letter that made the land market sink to $2/meter. It had something to do with lots of sims....Sorry, that's all I've got on that now.

Teddy Roosevelt and the "progressive" wings of the Democratic and Republican created a mixed economy in 1903-06. The Republicans dismantled it from 1920-1929 when they controlled the presidency and the senate after the Versaille peace treaty disaster. Franklin Roosevelt recreated it from 1933-1945, responding to the Great Depression and the Second World War, and it's been the American economic paradigm ever since.



It's more complicated than that. The New Deal didn't work because solving the Great Depression, an international crisis, required an international solution - which wasn't available in the diplomatic climate of that time. What the New Deal did was to successfully mobilize, organize, and direct the American economy, which could then be used as one of two primary tools to win the Second World War. (The other primary tool was the Red Army of the USSR.) The "mixed" economic pattern of mobilization, organization, and direction allowed the U.S. to do three things postwar: engage the Soviet Union in the Cold War, rebuild the entire world economic infrastructure that had been destroyed by WW2, and generate enough domestic wealth to create the modern middle class, a sophisticated high tech base, and one of the highest standards of living in history.

I'd call that a success. I don't who the "experts" are that you've been reading, but when FDR lifted the New Deal in 1936-37, the economy immediately tanked. And - government has been creating jobs that have been stabilizing the economy at least since 1915, in defense, education, high tech, and agriculture. Again, it's a question of what kind of jobs we're talking about.

I understand the libertarian point of view, and in principle, I try to be as supportive of it as possible. But I also understand the other point of view as well - government as a "tool", and only a tool, nothing else, to provide the stable conditions in which innovation can flourish and profit can grow.

The Lindens have structured land ownership on specific numbers of prims attached to specific "meters" of virtual land. But is that always the way it's going to be? Unlike RL, SL allows adjustment, progress even, in prims and meters as the technology improves. Didn't I hear that at some point in the future, the prim allocation per meter is going up?

Perhaps we're looking at these issues too much like RL real estate issues that don't necessarily apply. Perhaps we should be looking at these issues in the same manner as we look at technology issues - as with computing over the last 30 years, as the technology improves, the pricing structure and availability for "land" and prims modifies, and becomes cheaper. 512 today will be the equivalent of 2048 tomorrow, in terms of prims, "space," and cost.

What I'm saying is, perhaps this social class and property problem is amenable to a gradual technological fix, based on improving infrastructure and evolving market realities, rather than an immediate organizational fix.

As much as I would love to debate you on this topic Seth, I feel that this is not the right place to do it. It is just going too far off topic here.

In regards to SL, this is a very differnt economy then the real world. The one biggest differance is that the most used item in the game is both limitless and free. That is of course the prim. As long as there is this free prim, along with scripts and copying texutures, you cannot equate it to anything in the real world. The only thing that really runs this economy is land. The rest is just play.

Land does not need to be contolled any more then it already is. I think fixed prices are bad all around. I wish that the privite island where not limitless and fixed price like they are. But I also see the use in them. They where never designed to be used in the way that some of them are being used now. I think there has been a damper placed on the land market already because of the fixed price of a sim. If nothing changes in the way SL economy is run, I will be ok with it.

PS If I am not making sense, please forgive me, it is really late, and I should have already gone to bed. I will fix it later when I have more time

I think you made perfect sense, even for your late hour. Its too bad others won't see just how much sense you made.

LL has made it clear in the past that the main mechanism through which they controlled the economy, was by controlling the rate at which they put new sims up for auction.

Private sims could be excluded from this control, and made available in unlimited supply at fixed price, because they were commercially crippled. Subdividing and selling was not only forbidden, but impractical.

Due to an accidental side-effect of a software change, Sim owners have now bypassed that crippling, Until prevented at the last update, they were flooding the Land Sales list with lowcost leases masquerading as sales.

So they are now competing with real sales, and are no longer partly separate from the economy.

It follows that they must sooner or later join in the "release rate of land" control mechanism unless this is abandoned, and the economy (land prices and exchange rate) fine tuned by other means.

Once their supply is limited, they must be rationed out, and that implies auctioned.

The fixed price on-demand private sim will have ceased to exist.

I suggest that the crippling should be re-introduced, the ban on subdivision for "sale" (which still exists) should be enforced, so that those of us who want private estates can still have them, as before.

A new form of sim needs to be created for the "leasing baron". Controlled supply, and auctioned.

Perhaps indeed, any sim purchased on the auction could simply be set "Private" (ie lease-only dictatorship) or "Normal" (ie split-and-sell) at the owners choice.

Anshe herself has suggested this, if I'm not mistaken.

Of course she suggested it. She has 13 sims (or is it more already?), obtained on demand and at the low fixed price. It would be hugely to her advantage if everyone from now on had to wait for them, and pay a much higher price (50% more?) in auction. Prevent them competing with her on an even playing field.

Maybe it was even part of her game plan right from the moment she ordered that huge block of sims. She's a smart lady. Note her defiant insistence on keep advertising her leases to newbies as "land sales" despite LL's ruling that they are not. Essential to her commercial strategy, though of course she puts up a semantic smokescreen.

It doesn't alter the fact that, largely due to her actions, this change would now seem to be necessary. To the clever go the rewards, I guess.

I'm quite aware of that.

But it's useful to remember that all of this is speculation. Island sales didn't take off like the proverbial land office -- yet. Ryan Linden floated the idea of having smaller auctions of mainland grid sims opening at $980 (a float the caused the auction to sink to $2/meter the next day!). Not everybody moved to the islands -- yet. Anshe sold a lot of them, but maybe she's glutted her own market. There's no stampede of people buying up private islands and selling them off as purchasable individual leases -- yet.

And the Lindens didn't suddenly wake up and say "OMG we've given away the store" and put a freeze on sales -- yet. They didn't create an auction and bless Anshe as the grandmothered monopolist -- yet. So all this is...speculation.

What did happen? Anshe, who works harder than anybody, began to see that the failure to protect against lag, griefing, and poor performance was leading people not to buy land on the mainland. She figured if she could have more control over the product she'd sell more. She began to develop the ideas for the themes communities for Francophones, furries, etc. They were hugely popular. She advertised them on the land-for-sale list and about 2 and a half people and their alts very vocal on the forums screamed until the Lindens removed that function (without replacing it without any other increased advertising capacity). 99 percent of the other people involved in the story went happily on either to ignore this entire saga or to become happy Ansheland custumers. Even Anshe's own land on the mainland devalued as a result -- a fact of which she is quite away, but the Lindens had a hand in that, too, by putting out a huge New Continent land but without telehubs (there are still only two, separated by thousands of meters) because of a mistaken belief that "2/3 of the customers want wilderness" (those 2/3 of the customers *cough* didn't go out and buy even this pristine wilderness, even when its prices dropped considerably LOL).

A huge amount of firey and drama-y invective was unleashed on Anshe, without much actual experience of how her system works. I'm a happy Ansheland customer, albeit a critical consumer as I am of anything, and I have to say it works way better even than I thought. Here's what you get:

-- very low upfront purchase-price of $19999 for 4096 waterfront (equivalent on mainland waterfront is $30,000 or more).
-- your own selected group land that enables you or another officer of that group to return objects, change the name on the land, terraform (after some consultation with Anshe just not to undo her fine work already done in the region), music installation etc. (Anshe initially becomes an officer of the group, then leaves; the group has access to the land but places no tier on it per se in-world, but sends tier payments to Anshe).
-- freedom from griefing and ugly builds to some extent as Anshe attempts to rule out the usual menu of constructo-terrorism masking as conceptual art, stupid neon boxes boxes trying to force sales, etc.
--a higher cut of neighbours who have also expressed willingness to abide by the basic norms of civilization (Anshe set the bar quite high for the usual SL population by insisting we behave *at least* as well as her four-year-old daughter).
--beautiful preserved views as Anshe has tried to balance chungprotected land, stores, residences, etc.

Despite considerable campaigns against her, considerable harassment in the forums, and angry-beaver attacks against the land-sales use for ads, she's doing a remarkable business out there.

There are troubling issues for those long on time for abstract philosophical considerations, i.e. about gated communities, authoritarian personalities required for progress, the depressing effect on prices, etc. Meanwhile, if you're sick of waking up to a nightmare each time you log into SL and look where your US $120 initial investment went to, and your $25 maintenance investment is going to, Ansheland is for you.

Good sales job for something you may need to "sell" later, Varian.

It doesn't matter whether Anshe and her sims are wonderful or not. That simply isn't the point for those of us (unlike you) who have no stake.

Any modifications to the system are not just for Anshe, but for all those who may follow in her footsteps. There are other land barons, you know. Any modifications affect the good of the economy, and hence everyone.

I personally find her open defiance of the Lindens over how leases should be named and advertised to be a very worrying sign. She openly posted that she will continue to advertise them as "land sales" in every advertising medium remaining at her disposal, although the owners of the game had declared that they were not land sales, but rental, and that such advertising was misleading. I'll find you the forum quote if you like.

Those who seek to administer justice and discipline for and to others should first learn to accept it from those in authority over themselves (in authority by virtue of the responsibilty they bear).

I try to be less vocal on topics in which I have a financial interest, not more. I am amazed by how many people here seem to have the opposite approach, ignoring the fact that their impartial judgement may be impaired by their self-interest, even if subconsciously.

My policy lays me open to accusations of sticking my nose into what doesn't concern me, or more often, suspicions that I have a hidden agenda. Fits with my previous paragraph, doesn't it? Those who act from partly subconscious self-interest are puzzled by, and suspicious of, the lack of it in others.

How about addressing the actual issues in the posting you replied to, Varian, instead of giving us a sales brochure?

I point out that Anshe's suggestion was hugely in her own self-interest, as is her dispute about naming, and that both could have been part of a pre-thought out game plan.

I express concern at her defiant attitude to a Linden ruling.

You respond ............. ?

Anyone responds ............. ?

I'll respond to your post ellie.I agree that anshes defience is very disturbing as it does seem like a log term game plan to take over. everything does seem to be moving in a very dangerous direction, as I question someone who would spend $13,000 U.S. on sims unless there was a larger scheme to why it was purchased. there are many things anshe is doing that defy the Lindens, and are suitable for disciplinary action, as it clearly states that you are not to do anything that would affect anyones enjoyment of the game. I think there is more going on here than many people realize, and yes there are many other land barons, but anshe has outdone and outperformed them all, to where she is the only baron to worry about. Someone who can drop that amount of money on a "GAME" scares me as to the real underlying intntions, and what else she is willing to do, as she has already shown her willingness to dop thousands of dollars at a moments notice in a "VIRTUAL WORLD." Land is directly associated with the economy, and if you control the land by introducing it into the game yourself in mass amounts, you do control the economy. Do we really want one person that is not a Linden to have control over the economy or even a very strong pull on it? I'm sure by now at least one Linden is watching this thread. I hope they are taking notes, as this is only one of several contraversial threads covering the same subject.

I don't suggest that Anshe actually has any sinister plan to damage SL, Games.

I do suggest that she is intent on making as much money here as possible, and that she plans that with all her considerable intelligence. How else could she have achieved what she has ? And why not ?

I am just concerned when any single resident gets strong enough to challenge the management, and able to screw up the economy if thwarted. And maybe think of sueing LL if they fall out.

I think (I'm not sure) she is already big enough, and I think (I'm not sure) I see her flexing her muscles.

It worries me.

I would also feel happier if I saw other residents recognising that achievements like Anshes cannot occur without a certain amount of single-minded ruthlessness and careful strategy planning. They should respect such achievements (and yet be slightly wary), rather than bathing in the comfy delusion that such a person is just another chummy resident who happens to have accidentally done rather well.

Such a public figure is not above questioning, and even criticism, and should expect this in good part as one of the prices of her success. If only because she is taking power in other residents lives, and asking for their trust, which means they have the right to research and question her motives and integrity in anyway they feel appropriate, and rather more than would be fair in the case of an ordinary private citizen.

Ellie and Lindar,

I don't think that Anshe is "defiant," I simply disagree with you there. And it's not a "sales brochure," but a report. I tested out the system to experience it first-hand, something few bother to do. I found it to be working. I don't plan to get in this business myself, seems too hard to have to manage all the customers plus be stuck with a big sim that you can't chop up and sell. I see many difficulties down the road too, some just beginning. The same arguments over building issues and what's ugly that everyone fled the mainland for continue apace in the new private zoned communities.

Other land barons have rushed into this area too, like Hiro Queso, and seem to be selling them pretty well. Some used the land-sales list, some didn't.

Since the feature that allowed them to use it is gone now, why is this still being flogged? It was flogged to death when Lindar kept raising it over and over again in like 10 different threads. The problem remains a lack of advertising capacity in the game.

I saw all the forums quotes about land sales and whatnot, but the Lindens merely cover themselves there or make a judicious pronunciation. I don't see them rushing to punish or freeze Anshe due to her ads, and frankly, when I fork over $19999 for a 4096 to have access to it, it feels like a sale, not a rent. When I then also pay $25 tier on it, it seals it for me. I've bought a land, like I'd buy a time share in RL. It bothers me not that I don't have utter and total digging rights on it. All of this stuff is like a tripod account anyway, as we said in other threads.



This seems like one of those hectoring and overbearing statements that really has no place here. Many people accepted Anshe's justice and rules, although they may chafe for some and they'll leave. Fortunately, Anshe creates choices for people in a limited game choice span.

I try to be less vocal on topics in which I have a financial interest, not more. I am amazed by how many people here seem to have the opposite approach, ignoring the fact that their impartial judgement may be impaired by their self-interest, even if subconsciously.

I think it's fine for self-interested groups to speak up about their self-interest. This is the old invisible hand of the market. Nobody said the invisible hand of the market also had to be a silent voice LOL. I personally have no vested interest now or later in this issue, but I'm more interested in more free enterprise and a freer market with freer and more liberal capacity for advertising than we have now with the tight clutch on every means of communication currently hobbling a lot of normal advertising capacity.



Yeah. Especially if they appear as alts. But the rules say you cannot out alts or attempt to out alts. So I'm just addressing this post not only to you, but someone with the exact same views and tonal patterns who was very vocal last month (and has disappeared except for a few other alts in other threads).

Ellie and Lindar,

I don't think that Anshe is "defiant," I simply disagree with you there. And it's not a "sales brochure," but a report. I tested out the system to experience it first-hand, something few bother to do. I found it to be working. I don't plan to get in this business myself, seems too hard to have to manage all the customers plus be stuck with a big sim that you can't chop up and sell. I see many difficulties down the road too, some just beginning. The same arguments over building issues and what's ugly that everyone fled the mainland for continue apace in the new private zoned communities.

Other land barons have rushed into this area too, like Hiro Queso, and seem to be selling them pretty well. Some used the land-sales list, some didn't.

Since the feature that allowed them to use it is gone now, why is this still being flogged? It was flogged to death when Lindar kept raising it over and over again in like 10 different threads. The problem remains a lack of advertising capacity in the game.

I saw all the forums quotes about land sales and whatnot, but the Lindens merely cover themselves there or make a judicious pronunciation. I don't see them rushing to punish or freeze Anshe due to her ads, and frankly, when I fork over $19999 for a 4096 to have access to it, it feels like a sale, not a rent. When I then also pay $25 tier on it, it seals it for me. I've bought a land, like I'd buy a time share in RL. It bothers me not that I don't have utter and total digging rights on it. All of this stuff is like a tripod account anyway, as we said in other threads.



This seems like one of those hectoring and overbearing statements that really has no place here. Let the Lindens administer the justice, if you have a dispute with the way they are doing things, take it up with them, instead of banging on other players -- as has been said earlier in this thread. Many people accepted Anshe's justice and rules, although they may chafe for some and they'll leave. Fortunately, Anshe creates choices for people in a limited game choice span.



I think it's fine for self-interested groups to speak up about their self-interest. This is the old invisible hand of the market. Nobody said the invisible hand of the market also had to be a silent voice LOL. I personally have no vested interest now or later in this issue, but I'm more interested in more free enterprise and a freer market with freer and more liberal capacity for advertising than we have now with the tight clutch on every means of communication currently hobbling a lot of normal advertising capacity.

It's fine if there is a diversity of "non-impartial" voices on this subject, let them be heard.



Yeah. Especially if they appear as alts. But the rules say you cannot out alts or attempt to out alts. So I'm just addressing this post not only to you, but someone with the exact same views and tonal patterns who was very vocal last month (and has disappeared except for a few other alts in other threads).

It's not wrong to act from self-interest. Self-interest makes the world go round. It's the fake altruism that we keep seeing so much everywhere that really grates, because that's a cover for the kind of self-interest you have to watch out for.

Don't know who this other person is, but I have to agree with you about lack of other advertising opportunities. I had received the impression that LL would be adding extra categories or tabs into the "Find" window to accomodate land rentals and leases. I do think we need this soon. It would be a pity to starve this new form of land holding. Providing it is properly distinguished, it certainly should have support.

Mind you, I suppose none of us agitated on behalf of the poor old plain-vanilla long-term land renters over the past year or so, did we? They seemed to survive.

Nothing wrong with posting in self-interest, you're right. Just that its important to declare it to others, and recognise its effect on yourself.

Getting too late to say more, but thanks for your post, Varian. You're quire perceptive, aren't you ?