A solution to the anti-stipend whiners?

A solution to the anti-stipend people might work like this:

Each person is allowed the option of 'turning off' stipends. If the stipend is turned off they get no stipend per week, and the first 500 a week they would normally receive from any shopper is still deducted from the shoppers account, but not creditted to the seller.

Then those who do not like the stipend don't need to be bothered by receiving it, or the 'welfare' that SL hand sout, from anyone.

Those of us who see the stipend as part of our service that we pay for can still receive it.

*Sigh*-The point of eliminating or reducing stipends is to stop people getting money for doing nothing. In a competitive economy, people only get paid for doing stuff. Even in the Soviet Union, people were generally not paid for merely existing. Your "solution" doesn't change that. People get paid for sitting around doing crap.

At the moment, LL nominally "pay" for stipends, but that cost, in the form of land tier, is put on small business owners, 90% of which according to the results of another thread I started here, are not making money. The only major cost the majority of those businesses will incur is tier. So, as Ms Chung said, the people who work hard get to go f*ck themselves. And yes, I resent the fact that my land tier is, judging from your profile, subsidizing your forays into cybersex tourism. (Btw What is a "cuddle slut"?)

With a graduated income tax replacing tier, the form of taxation dominant in most of the developed world, ALL those businesses become profitable. You cancel your membership, as you keep saying you will if the stipend is cancelled, but I expand my SL business massively earning hundreds of dollars per month, and get six guys in I know to do same, because the profit potential then becomes fantastic. LL wins.

When we brought this up before some people said "but I'm not interested in the SL economy". Fine. If the members want in let's turn SL to a socialist enviroment devoted to creativity and community, and keep the stipend. However, it is just utterly stupid to pretend paying people to do jack is economically sensible.

Stipends are not socialism. Socialism is the public ownership of the means of production. And neither is the economy in SL capitalist. Capitalism requires stock markets and capital.

Disliking something doesn't make it socialist or communist, just as liking it doesn't make it capitalist.

Stipends are an incentive for people to spend their leisure time "on vacation" in SL. And that's what most residents do. They're the customers who spend their time and money playing the games, visiting the casinos, touring the world, and buying the products. That's how they spend their leisure time. The entire SL economy is based on the residents' disposable income and their leisure time. So how incredibly stupid is it to tell them to spend that time working in SL when the products and services you want to sell them are meant to be used in their leisure time? The more I work in SL the less time I have for leisure activities there. And that means the less money I spend on such products.

Paying my monthly fees is doing something. I personaly would feel ripped off if they did away with it. Since I signed up they have steadly decreased it. That feels like false advertizing to me. BUT since the TOS says that LL can basicaly do what ever they want when ever they want my choices are just 2. Live with it or leave. The more they take the more likely I am to go back to basic and leave it at that. That cannot be good for the economy either.

Cat

Well said! I would also like to add that; all work and no play makes for a very dull day. Burnout happens a lot in sl. If I am expected to log in and work all day, there better be a full paycheck involved for my services. At current RL wage rate ty. Not .20 us an hour.

Ppl seem to forget that we are paying for this service, not the other way around.

You are assuming through your own Rossy Glasses that
people are here for Vacation and Leisure Time. Your perception
is not everybody elses reality.

Is the person who buys land for L$1 and resells it for L$2
here for vacation? Or are they being a capitalist in SL?
And as a capitalist, they have every right to fuss about the
enviroment which is anti-capitalism and work to change it.
Just as there folks who only see Rainbows and Waterfalls
and are on vacation.

Take Note: The SL world doesn't revolve around Mike's Perception.

I can't tell you how much I agree with Michael's analysis.

I make stuff, I work, and I don't buy stuff. I need that $500 and so do my customers.

coco

Some people pay, some do not. Remember, you can
do just fine with a free account and rented land and
never pay a dime.

So who did you say was paying again?

Personaly I spend on average 100 us in sl per month aside from my tier fees. Buying clothes, fun stuff, adding to game pots, tipping hosts. It all adds up.

Or at least I did. All the fun stuff is being replaced.

But thats you.. There are over 100,000 acounts. How many
of them are paying? 10%? 25%? 50%? Lifestyles in SL are
relative. It all depends on your point of view.

my tier is over 200 per mo. so I guess I am. and anyone who owns an island, or land.

only LL has the answer to that.

How can you rent land with $50L a week?

It's simple.

The ones who don't have premiums don't get $500 and don't pay for it.

The ones who do have premiums do get $500 x 4 and pay $9.95 for it.

To rent land, you have to have some money.

For LL to make money, it has to get money either from people who rent their land, or people who have their own land.

So yes, premium members do pay for it, with $9.95 a month.

If I don't get $500, I may decide not to pay $9.95 a month, or the extra for tier, and I don't really need to rent land, either. I can still have my business.

So what good does it do the Lindens to cut the stipend, and have me stop paying for anything (the land that gives me pleasure, and makes the business seem more "real" and more fun)? I'm going to make money either way. This way, the Lindens offer me enough for me to buy into the whole program.

coco

I would like to know that my self the average cost on 512m is 300 a week.

You run a business and make money...
Stop thinking like a Welfare Receipient..

come on now thats a little harsh. what if ppl simply dont want to run a business. is their worth nothing?

No one is addressing the need to scale the currency in these discussions.

What happens when the last L$ has been used to upload a texture?

Then the game is over.

Who are you to say what I am thinking like? I do work on SL, but not all the time. I've actually not been on much in the past few weeks. Yes I have a basic account. I paid $10 for it. I buy Lindens if I need to.

I guess those people who think that Second Life is but a game are wrong according to... someone who looks down their nose at those people who just use Second Life as a tool to meet new people or live out a fantasy of being able to fly - or, hell, even WALK. Some people are limited in their physical abilities in RL. Heaven forbid they decide to NOT run a business.


***Edit: I'm tired of "capitalists" forgetting there need to be consumers for capitalism to work. SL is a game for many people - they've worked all day and just want to unwind - who cares if they purchase $L to buy stuff in world?

Who wins?

It's not rosy glasses, it's simply a basic understanding of the world. Unless you're making more money in SL than you're spending on it, it's a leisure activity. It's how you choose to spend your leisure time and your disposable income. I never said that all residents are vacationers, just the vast majority of us. SL is like Hawaii, it is based on tourism. Far more people visit Waikiki than work there. Expecting the tourists to settle in and work (on what?) is silly. SL businesses are based on leisure activities. The real estate market is either about buying a vacation home, buying land for a business to sell stuff to vacationers or about making money off businesses that cater to vacationers or off vacationers themselves.

So stop the phony "capitalists are serious" nonsense. SL isn't capitalist. It isn't socialist either. It's a leisure pursuit for most of us and the minute it stops being fun it will wither and die. I'm all for the people who create the great things we can buy and visit and play with in SL. And if they can make a living doing it, great. But don't drive away the vacationers that pay for SL in the first place.

Here's a challenge for the "serious capitalists" out there, name a single business in SL, whose owner makes a profit, and which isn't based on leisure pursuits or whose customers aren't businesses based on leisure pursuits.

Man you have issues my friend. You should seriously consider theropy. This is a game. Who gives a rats ass about its economy. You know instead of trying to ruin the GAME for everyone else why don't you go seek a job in REAL LIFE? I'm sure it would be a lot better for your health as opposed to sitting at your pc all day jumping on the next SL bandwagon of what they can take from others so you can sell your lindens for more.

Even if they did take everyone elses small income you may sell your lindens for a few more cents for a short time. Wouldn't last long though because rational adults won't pay as much for a damn game for serious lengths of time like you desire. Thank God the rational adults outnumber the irrational ones or noone but those paying $2k a month for SL would have anything. Then the whole thing would come crashing down.

There needs to be a new SL bandwagon. One that lobbys to take away at least 75% of the money from the rich. Let's get some of those lindens out of circulation. Let's take it away from those that can afford it. Sounds like a good plan huh. They'd minus out billions just in the top 10 rich list.

i like it. lol

A 'cuddle slut' is one who enjoys cudlding or holding others. It has nothing to do with cybersex. Hell, I typically go without virtual sex- I have a real world fiance I get all I need in that area from.

I come to SL to relax, to enjoy myself, not to have a second job. Why the hell should I pay for the priviledge of having 2 jobs?

I pay for the stipend with my premium monthly payment, though it is more than the lindens I receive, I also pay the bit more for land rights and the convenience of weekly checks. If I don't get what I'm paying for, why the hell should I pay?

Not everyone is here to run a business or have a second job..remember that before making broad asusmptions about the masses..especially sicne there are NO service jobs for anyone here.. its all automated vendors and people with visual art talent.