Tie Stipend Payments to Lindex?
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Cow Hand
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 292
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06-15-2006 14:08
Hello, I signed up for a premium account for a year. The problem is when I first joined, the 500 per week stipend was worth a lot more than it is now. I think that Linden Labs should tie the weekly stipend to the Lindex rate. That way, if the value of the linden money falls, we all get more stipend that week.
Also, the amount paid should never fall under 500 per week.
What do you think? Will this cure the recent fall?
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Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,011
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06-15-2006 14:12
From: Cow Hand Hello, I signed up for a premium account for a year. The problem is when I first joined, the 500 per week stipend was worth a lot more than it is now. I think that Linden Labs should tie the weekly stipend to the Lindex rate. That way, if the value of the linden money falls, we all get more stipend that week.
Also, the amount paid should never fall under 500 per week.
What do you think? Will this cure the recent fall? No. Printing more money when money is worth less will only accellerate the rate of devaluation.
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Bloop Cork
This space for sale.
Join date: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
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06-15-2006 16:14
Actually, I've suggested this before. I agree that indexing the premium stipend to the Lindex is a good idea.
However, to address the money supply issue and its affect on currency devaluation, it needs to be an inverse relationship. So, for example, as the Linden increases (i.e., drops in value to the US dollar), the stipend should correspondingly drop. As the Linden decreases (i.e., increases in value to the US dollar), the stipend should increase. But the stipend should never go above L$500.
At what rate should the inverse relationship rise and fall, I'm not sure. That is for economists to figure out. But, at about $364 Lindens to the US dollar, the stipend should be zero.
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 602
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06-15-2006 16:26
From: Bloop Cork Actually, I've suggested this before. I agree that indexing the premium stipend to the Lindex is a good idea. However, to address the money supply issue and its affect on currency devaluation, it needs to be an inverse relationship. So, for example, as the Linden increases (i.e., drops in value to the US dollar), the stipend should correspondingly drop. As the Linden decreases (i.e., increases in value to the US dollar), the stipend should increase. But the stipend should never go above L$500. At what rate should the inverse relationship rise and fall, I'm not sure. That is for economists to figure out. But, at about $364 Lindens to the US dollar, the stipend should be zero. The reverse should be true as premiums pay for their stipends. It should never go -below- 500L. perhaps at 1000l = 1USD the cap should be 1000L stipends. Or they could just calculate the average 'buy' rate and multiply it by 5, breaking that result into 4 weekly payments. 
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"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid in posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale." - Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President
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Bloop Cork
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Join date: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
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06-15-2006 17:17
From: Banking Laws The reverse should be true as premiums pay for their stipends. It should never go -below- 500L. perhaps at 1000l = 1USD the cap should be 1000L stipends. Or they could just calculate the average 'buy' rate and multiply it by 5, breaking that result into 4 weekly payments.  The issue here is that as more money (L$) is added to an economy whose currency is devaluing, the situation gets worse, not better. Therefore, an inverse index would directly address the devaluating currency.
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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06-15-2006 17:21
From: Bloop Cork The issue here is that as more money (L$) is added to an economy whose currency is devaluing, the situation gets worse, not better. Therefore, an inverse index would directly address the devaluating currency. But it wouldn't address that the premiums have paid for their stipends, and were guaranteed 500 a week in that agreement. I signed up to the agreement of 500 lindens a week. Not an amount based on the fluctuations of a market I don't use.
_____________________
Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
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Bloop Cork
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Join date: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
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06-15-2006 17:34
From: Jonas Pierterson But it wouldn't address that the premiums have paid for their stipends, and were guaranteed 500 a week in that agreement. I signed up to the agreement of 500 lindens a week. Not an amount based on the fluctuations of a market I don't use. Oh, I agree with you, Jonas. There is a real contractual issue here.  My suggestion is simply theoretical in nature. Until the TOS is changed in such a way that clearly gives ample and fair warning to current premium account holders, any changes to the stipend allowance cannot be made. That is, of course, the reasons that I spearheaded a voluntary end to stipends. Most people fail to understand that, instead lumping me into a group of greedy currency traders. I have no interest in forcing LL (assuming that were even possible) to cut stipends across the board. It goes against the contract. Also, I have no interest in ending stipends. I think they should eventually be reduced in a manner that is equitable and healthy for the economy, but some degree of stipends are necessary for this type of a realm.
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Lina Pussycat
Texture WizKid
Join date: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 731
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06-15-2006 18:22
While introducing more money into the economy can lead to the currency going down there are many other factors causing it for LL. People having tier they cant afford and need to rush to pay on a monthly basis being one of the more major factors.
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Bloop Cork
This space for sale.
Join date: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
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06-15-2006 18:31
From: Lina Pussycat While introducing more money into the economy can lead to the currency going down there are many other factors causing it for LL. People having tier they cant afford and need to rush to pay on a monthly basis being one of the more major factors. Absolutely! Money supply is just one of many factors that can influence (negatively or positively) an economy.
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Cow Hand
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 292
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06-15-2006 18:39
From: Shaun Altman No. Printing more money when money is worth less will only accellerate the rate of devaluation. So, you want me to pay the same amount of real dollars each month for a static, but worth less each month, 500 linden dollars? Anyone can see that this won't work. People will stop being premium.
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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06-15-2006 18:53
From: Bloop Cork Oh, I agree with you, Jonas. There is a real contractual issue here. My suggestion is simply theoretical in nature. Until the TOS is changed in such a way that clearly gives ample and fair warning to current premium account holders, any changes to the stipend allowance cannot be made. That is, of course, the reasons that I spearheaded a voluntary end to stipends. Most people fail to understand that, instead lumping me into a group of greedy currency traders. I have no interest in forcing LL (assuming that were even possible) to cut stipends across the board. It goes against the contract. Also, I have no interest in ending stipends. I think they should eventually be reduced in a manner that is equitable and healthy for the economy, but some degree of stipends are necessary for this type of a realm. As long as there is some compensation, such a s lowered premium fees, or more 'free' teir, then I'd say its equitable.
_____________________
Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
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Bloop Cork
This space for sale.
Join date: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
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06-15-2006 19:03
From: Jonas Pierterson As long as there is some compensation, such a s lowered premium fees, or more 'free' teir, then I'd say its equitable. That sure seems like a fair alternative to me.
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Blakar Ogre
Registered User
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 209
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06-16-2006 02:19
From: Cow Hand So, you want me to pay the same amount of real dollars each month for a static, but worth less each month, 500 linden dollars?
Anyone can see that this won't work. People will stop being premium. You pay for stipend + tier for 512m² + the right to own land. As long as what is offered is worth the money people won't bail. Given the fact that prices in SL don't follow the same pace of the L$ decline your buying power has not decreased all that much. With 500L$ you will be able to buy pretty much the same as before so what's the problem?
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Millicent Massiel
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 12
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06-16-2006 02:52
500L a week is basically nothing anyway, the main benefit to being premium is being able to own land, that and the 512sqm of tier is more than enough to justify the low price of being premium.
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Musuko Massiel
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2005
Posts: 435
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06-16-2006 02:57
" Also, the amount paid should never fall under 500 per week. "
Translation: I want all the benefits of the changing market, but none of the risks! Gimme gimme!
Musuko.
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Cow Hand
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 292
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06-16-2006 06:36
From: Musuko Massiel " Also, the amount paid should never fall under 500 per week. "
Translation: I want all the benefits of the changing market, but none of the risks! Gimme gimme!
Musuko. No, I'm not saying "Gimme". I'm saying I want a fair deal. Thats all.
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Green Panther
Registered User
Join date: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 64
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You are saying "gimme"
06-16-2006 06:53
From: Cow Hand No, I'm not saying "Gimme".
I'm saying I want a fair deal. Thats all. You are saying "Gimme". At the moment, LL is giving you more in stipend than you pay in tier. Additionally, LL give you cut-price land which can be sold on at a profit, or used to generate cash through dwell and user-generated content. They charge you no tier on that land. Additionally, people work the referral system and get even more free cash. It is not really possible to lose out on the deal even in the falling Linden climate. New sign-ups are essentially getting free cash, albeit in a slightly more complicated manner than that implies. You can sign-up quite a few free accounts through family, friends and so on and make some money at LL's expense. And now you want LL to guarantee that set-up forever and lock in your profit at the cost of any pretense of economic stability. Even internet casinos don't give away that much free cash and they have a very good chance of getting it back from clueless gamblers. Hell, I could use the extra cash. But it is not a sustainable business model unless you think the average SL-er is going to generate more cash for LL long-term than they are given. Most SL-ers are freeloaders, so I doubt that would happen.
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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06-16-2006 11:11
From: Green Panther You are saying "Gimme". At the moment, LL is giving you more in stipend than you pay in tier. Additionally, LL give you cut-price land which can be sold on at a profit, or used to generate cash through dwell and user-generated content. They charge you no tier on that land. Additionally, people work the referral system and get even more free cash. It is not really possible to lose out on the deal even in the falling Linden climate. New sign-ups are essentially getting free cash, albeit in a slightly more complicated manner than that implies. You can sign-up quite a few free accounts through family, friends and so on and make some money at LL's expense. And now you want LL to guarantee that set-up forever and lock in your profit at the cost of any pretense of economic stability. Even internet casinos don't give away that much free cash and they have a very good chance of getting it back from clueless gamblers. Hell, I could use the extra cash. But it is not a sustainable business model unless you think the average SL-er is going to generate more cash for LL long-term than they are given. Most SL-ers are freeloaders, so I doubt that would happen. 1. I am saying I signed up with the agreement of 500 lindens a week. Provide that until the end of the contract, and compensate then, or I can go basic. 2. Basics don't get any money now. Period. No starting 250, no stipend. You're wrong on both counts.
_____________________
Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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06-16-2006 11:14
From: Millicent Massiel 500L a week is basically nothing anyway, the main benefit to being premium is being able to own land, that and the 512sqm of tier is more than enough to justify the low price of being premium. 512 m2 = 5 USD monthly. The 'free' 512 m2 teir, is in absolutely no way more than enough to justify premium costs. The 'main' benefit to you IS THE LAND. The 'main' benefit TO ME is the stipend. Hell if youre thinking that way lets get rid of the free 512 m2, since the stipend is more than worth the value of a premium account. That would be using YOUR logic Millicent.
_____________________
Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
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Dmitri Polonsky
Registered User
Join date: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 562
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06-16-2006 11:16
From: Cow Hand Hello, I signed up for a premium account for a year. The problem is when I first joined, the 500 per week stipend was worth a lot more than it is now. I think that Linden Labs should tie the weekly stipend to the Lindex rate. That way, if the value of the linden money falls, we all get more stipend that week. Also, the amount paid should never fall under 500 per week. What do you think? Will this cure the recent fall? Actually what wil occur is RBD/Jamie wil dump tons of linden on E-Bay again at low dollar and will claim the falling price is tied to tyhis plan and use it as ammunition again for a panic thereby pushing Linden Labs into the same wrong choice as last time.
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Dmitri Polonsky
Registered User
Join date: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 562
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06-16-2006 11:18
From: Shaun Altman No. Printing more money when money is worth less will only accellerate the rate of devaluation. Oh yes I forgot the toher player in this little thing that brught about the demise of 80% of the inworld customer base....a certain land baroness dumping huge blocks of L dirt cheap on e-bay right along with the other lunatics. Stipend had NOTHING to do with the fall of L value. It was al manipulated by those who have a ton of L's...the day traders.
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Cannae Brentano
NeoTermite
Join date: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 368
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06-16-2006 11:25
I know its different people, but you can't have it both ways.
The stipend plays a large part of why the $L is dropping in value. Many don't care, and claim they want the stipend because thats what they paid for. Fine. Just don't turn around and then ask for an increased stipend because its losing value.
While I don't agree with focusing only on the premium agreement and nothing else, I can respect that position. I prefer to look at the big picture. But don't try to take the best of both worlds without the corresponding costs.
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Seronis Zagato
Verified Resident
Join date: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 454
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06-16-2006 12:34
Not reading any of this article. Only point that needs said is if you tie the value of stipends to the LindeX that means as the ratio of $L /$USD increases people will just get larger and larger stipends. Flooding more money and pushing that ratio even higher.
Bad bad idea.
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Green Panther
Registered User
Join date: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 64
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Do you get a bot to post your stuff now?
06-16-2006 17:48
From: Jonas Pierterson 1. I am saying I signed up with the agreement of 500 lindens a week. Provide that until the end of the contract, and compensate then, or I can go basic. 2. Basics don't get any money now. Period. No starting 250, no stipend. You're wrong on both counts. The original poster was asking for the payment to be tied to the Lindex. Under the contract he is entitled to 500L , no more no less. That is not being debated. As bloody usual, your pointless whining is completely irrelevant to the thread. Do you just get a bot to do it for you now?
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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06-16-2006 18:05
From: Green Panther The original poster was asking for the payment to be tied to the Lindex. Under the contract he is entitled to 500L , no more no less. That is not being debated. As bloody usual, your pointless whining is completely irrelevant to the thread. Do you just get a bot to do it for you now? It was suggested premiums get less as the rate 'drops.' I'd call that debating that premiums shouldn't get 500 a week.
_____________________
Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
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