This Forum

I've noticed that there's almost no posting in this forum anymore. Have those who come here to harass others with their anti-business, anti-money agendas finally run all of the good people off?

I don't know if you consider me to be good people or not, but, I'm still here.

I think they are all off somewhere plotting as to how to sell high to those who want to buy low.


Edited as spelling correctly is important.

They will never run me off.

Damn.

Arguing with Communist Socialists gets tiresome after awhile. I'll just make money the Capitalistic way and bugger all else.

Maybe the capitalists have finally seen the error of their ways, and realised it's just a game, and are actually too busy enjoying themselves without the stress of making money to post here?

The sad thing is that if they did that, they'd probably find they were making more money anyway.

Lewis

Who told you SL is a game?
/139/65/98819/1.html

This is just the developers explaining what they're really building. These types of links have been tried before, and gamers won't believe it even when they see it. It's as if they look at SL with blinders on, seeing only what they want and missing all of the wonderful potential.

Actually I see it the other way round... all the capitalists are concentrating on the moneymaking aspect and the fake advertising of "make thousands a year" - resulting in the many thousands of signups who only log in a couple of times when they realise it's not that easy, and missing out on all the creative potential.

Second Life as creativity... good.

Second Life as an income... not so good.

A game is something that you do for entertainment. If SL isn't entertaining then why play?

It's a big place, massive in fact, with thousands of people playing ("multiplayer".

It's online.

As you have to work in world through your avatarial representation, you are providing the avatar with an in-world "role" in the overall structure.

Massively. Multiplayer. Online. RolePlaying. Game. MMORPG.

Lewis

Actually SL is a fantastic opportunity to learn potentially useful things. Basic 3D modeling, Texture design, Scripting, Animating, and probably a whole lot more.

I know it has been a fantastic learning experience for me.

SO no not a game...a classroom.

Linden Lab sees it differently. Perhaps it would be a good idea to review the link above, and revise your expectations.

LL have, in their own words, created a "platform", which I take as a game, you and others take it as an economic model to be manipulated, others roleplay furries or whatever, others do whatever, be it build, script, create clothing, etc.

What I would like to know is why treating SL as a game is received with contempt by many, yet when others are challenged as to why they do what they do, their style of gameplay is considered perfectly acceptable.

Lewis

I have no contempt for you or your style of gameplay, Lewis. I've chatted with you in-world on many occasions, and I think you're a pretty cool person when you're away from the forums. I love the things you've built in Second Life, too. The infohub is awesome.

I'm simply saying that you may wish to attempt to understand what LL is doing, and revise your expectations a little. They're not going to change directions mid-course because Lewis Nerd says to. The contempt is coming from your direction, in post after post after post. Why must you show so much contempt for one aspect of how I utilize the Second Life platform?

While we're on that subject, why do you post in this forum at all? Do you ever feel like you're beating your head against a brick wall? Is this feeling enjoyable?

This is the land and economy forum. It isn't for gameplay, it's for discussions of the Second Life economy. If you want to play games, why not play them in a forum that's dedicated to playing games? It's right down the hall, in the room labeled "General".

Its a game to me, but I'm getting into the ecnomy- only ignoring that linden cashout rate. I could drop to 1000 lindens/1$ and my prices wouldn't change.

Think of it as "evangelism". By presenting a different point of view someone might just reconsider their play style.

But this is Land AND Economy. Note that LL didn't think they were big enough subjects to give separate forums. Things about zoning and the 'sim lite' idea someone posted earlier are things that fascinate me, and whilst I am highly unlikely to be able to afford a region of my own that I can 'zone' and invite people to join me in that style, I can reach and discuss here with others who do have those thoughts about how we could improve our Second Lives.

At the end of the day, nothing I can say or do can affect or detract from the capitalist gameplay style - even if LL take one of my suggestions that affects it, that's their decision, not my fault. But a lot of those who make a real income from SL do get very protective about it, and the abuse I have had in game from several individuals over suggestions here would have been AR'able if I had chosen to take that route. I'm not getting protective about being able to "play a game" though, because I recognise that I have as much right to play my way as you do yours, even if I disagree with it (and that it remains within the ToS).

Lewis

Treating SL as a pure game isn't recieved with contempt by anyone I've seen in these forums Lewis. What is intensely disliked is trolls, spammers. and the derailing of threads.

But this has been explained to you before.

90% of the threads are regurgitated forms of older threads. Whether regurgitated or not, within each thread all you see is the same people going round and round in circles; it's like watching a Hamster in a wheel. It just get's boring after a while.

While I agree with you to some extent Hiro, thats what debating is all about. When one believes in a cause, one sticks with it and sees it through to its conclusion. I am one who happens to be of the opinion that the ardent sense of self-entitlement expressed by some, in light of the fact they are playing for free, is totally unwarranted. And that the handing out of free lindens is not only unnecessary and undeserved, but has also been a contributing factor to the declining linden.

Now if the handing out of free lindens were necessary for mere survival and/or basic necessities of life, I would undoubtedly be all for them. But that is not the case here is it?

We should all contribute and do our part to promote to the overall health of SL and its built-in economy. And if that means giving up a handout of L$50 per week to attempt and correct the continuing and unrelenting erosion of its currency, then we should all be willing to attempt it, particularly if you are already playing for free in the first place.


That is not to say that if at some point in the future, the strength of the economy would dictate the reinstitution of the basic stipend, that it could not be done. Its just a matter of each member of the SL community being flexible, and setting their own self-serving needs aside, from time to time, for the overall good of the SL community as a whole.

In the end, I am fully aware that varying human qualities, beliefs, and opinions present a more than formidable challenge to my own qualities, beliefs, and opinions.

But this does not discourage me from doing my part, in whatever way I can, toward supporting those that share my point of view.

I have been horribly busy at work to even do a complete scan of these forums; It's also the last one I swing by now, since the Uru ones now take precedence.

I still take an interest in this meta-world's economy, since watching the market allows me to exercise the types of information I've gathered in my RL work (but can't apply RL for ethics reasons).

As for the whole game/platform thing, well, notice my name for it - meta-world. Not metaverse, nothing really gonna match that this decade. Not game per se, though people create games of all sorts in here. But also not quite a platform either - parts of it are horribly incomplete to be seriously considered as such to a professional business.

So meta-world - an extention of the real world, online.

Warts and all.

:link:

So why not explain it to the trolls and spammers instead of me?

Lewis

I do explain it to the trolls and spammers Lewis.

Hiro is right (at least in my case).

There are a few posters in L&E who know what they're talking about, and who don't say the same damned things over and over, be they for or against SL capitalism.

Shaun is one of those posters. He, and a few others I would like to engage, but have mostly given up because of the massive tumors that this forums hosts, who continuously disrupt the level-headed folk's postings.

Tumor one - jingoists and/or "experts" who clearly have no idea about how the SL economy works, let alone how the real world one does. It's pretty eveident some of these folks never even took macro or micro (or the equivalent, whatever they may be labeled, in whatever part of the globe they hail from), in college. That is not to say you must have gone to college to know anything about economics, but if you're going to portray yourself as an expert, get some training, whether you do it on your own, or at a higher learning institution, before portraying yourself as an expert. Disclaimer: though I had both micro and macro in college, I do not consider myself an expert, however, I don't try to present myself as one either.

Tumor two - screechers who whine about the capalistic aspect of SL all day, everyday, and want SL to be like wherever the last online environment they participated in was. In other words, an irrational fear of change, which they have to beat everyone over the head with, even though no one is forcing them to stay. This would be the "it's a game you idiots" types.

Last, and certainly NOT least -- OMG THE LINDEN $ IS FALLING. Whatever the motivation of these broken records, it's bloody annoying, and I don't think more needs be said on that, as it's something you can't miss reading this forum section.

Hamster wheel is pretty definitive, IMO.

This is the Land and The Economy forum.

To say that SL is 'just a game' is a cop-out and
a cheap-ass way of saying "SL's land and economy"
doesn't matter because it's all just a game.

If they don't matter... then stay off the forum,
and let the people to whom they DO matter
discuss (gaming or business) concerns.

does a farmer care whether the world is round or flat?
Would either case change how they plant their crops?

Game or not, SL's economy is tied into real money.
Where there's real money there are real concerns.

REAL or not... this is LAND and THE ECONOMY.
Not the search for the meaning of (second)life.

Can we come up with some kind of Godwins ?Goodwins? Law
anytime the "It's just a game" beast rears it's ugly head?

--
I dunno, it looks like an Audi to me.
But it has a volkswagon engine in it so it isn't.
But it's got the Audi label on it.
But it's not an audi.
Still it drives nicer than your volkswagon.
But it's not real.
Huh? It's my CAR!
No, you just think it is.
Go to hell.
You first.

... by repackaging freebies and selling them to unsuspecting newbies!