The State of SL Bank

Teufel,

I noticed you completely avoided answering my question.

Claiming it's a Game Theory experiment is interesting, but if this is that case, you are ethically bound to make good any losses anyone incurs. I might of missed it, but who is your class or thesis professor?

I would also note that telling us it is a game theory experiment probably invalidates the experiment. Certainly it invalidates your stated experiment, so you have to be lying one way or the other (either it is not an experiment, or the experiment is different than you are claiming).

Hello again Marla.

I answered any and all questions I saw that you posted.

You are not "investing" in us. You do not own any part of the bank. This is not like a real world investment of which you may be use to. This is a novel investment in a virtual world. You are simply "giving" us your money and we promise to pay it back with interest. That is it. Period.

I am not giving out information on profs, etc or Thesis advisors, as this is a personal experiment. I may include some of the info in some of my papers, but my Master's Thesis is not based on this project, and I don't think my profs want to be hearing from people from a virtual world. They are very busy people, especially with the Fall coming up. They'd be pissed and have their own experiments to deal with.

The fact, right now, that you think I may be lying validates the experiment once again. It is not the fact that you know it is an experiment on Game Theory which would make your decisions, it is the risk that we may take or lose your money. In the lab, for example, everyone is told that they are participating in an experiment in Game Theory. Someone else may take their "bag" in such an experiment or hand them a "bag" with nothing in it or may rebuff the transaction all together. I'm not going to argue back and forth all day with you. I have lots of work to do and must get back to it. I can't keep repeating the same thing over and over again and hope you believe me. If you don’t, great. If you do, great. I've given out all info I am willing to. Any decisions will have to be based on that info.

If you don't like the experiment, or the risk, don't invest. Simple.

Any loses anyone may have will not be paid back, as anyone who participates agrees upon opening an account. And if I did guarantee to repay all loses, where would the risk be?

You never answered any of my questions…

Cheers!

I do owe you an apology here. You did say this in the last post, and it complelty went by me.

However, it does trigger some new questions.

First, what is the difference between "giving us your money and we promise to pay it back" and a loan? I know I don't have an economics degree but the nuance escapes me here. They seem to be the same thing for me.

Second, can you please reconcile the language in your notecard stating it is an investment with your current claims that the transaction is a gift (or a loan if you want to now claim that status)?

Finally, I will note that in any academic experiment, you are ethically bound to provide such information as I requested. Certainly, there is no reason not to provide it unless there is falsehood involved. So I ask again, who is your professor?

Hello,

No problem at all. With all these posts it is easy to miss something.

Really, the only difference is, we are not paying a pre set, pre determined interest rate and we can not be pursued for collection if we default. I feel you would want to call it an "investment" rather than a "loan." You are investing your money in the bank with the hopes that we can make money with your deposits and pay the interest rate and not "steal" your money. We do not "need" the deposits and have not applied for the deposits. We simply have given an option to deposit in our bank and have offered to "pay" depositors a variable interest rate.

Any suggestions on ways of making our notecard clearer are always welcome. It is a work in progress. I'll look into your suggestions and see what can be done.

I think you would want to know my Adviser, rather than names of professors. I've had many profs over the years and none of them, nor NYU is involved in this experiment. I've talked to a couple of profs about my experiment and they seemed interested, but once again, this is simply a private project, not some experiment being run on some super computers in a lab. If my project does ever become an official project of my school, I'll be happy to release the names of those involved, including Profs which may be overseeing the project. For now, it is just little old me, a few friends and my PC.

Cheers!

I can give you several recommendations for your notecard:

- You are engaged in a financial contract of some type. That contract whatever it is (and I'm still confused as to exactly what the contract is) needs to be clearly defined in the notecard along with a statement that by depositing the monies both you and the depositor are agreeing to the contract.

- You need to remove any ambiguous statements that imply some type of contract different than what is actually occurring (example, implying its a bank transaction, savings transaction or equity transaction).

- You need to remove any false statements, half truths or even false implications from the notecard. Statements like you are 'experts' (I guarantee you you are not an expert, the ambiguity of your language where typically a very precise language is used shows your inexperience) or that the funds have the spectrum of investments you claim (I have high doubts here, you don't have the capital to achieve that diversity) should not be made unless they are 100% true.

- I strongly recommend providing details into where the deposits are distributed instead of the ambiguous descriptions you currently use.

- I strongly recommend removing the term bank. As far as I can tell from your descriptions, you are not a bank and using the term is at minimum misleading and can be construed to be fraudulent. Using the term also is probably illegal.

- The nature and context of your experiment should be specifically described in the notecard.

- Finally, this isn't tied to the notecard, but your claim that you bear no legal financial liability is very weak. To do so, you need to be incorporated just right and/or have a foolproof contract. Even then you still might bear financial liability.

Idiot!

Hi Marla, actually I am somewhat older as I graduated HS in 1962, joined the US Army as a seventeen year old and just played too much before finally graduating and settling into my rocket propulsion career. I would have gotten back to you sooner but was busy calling RBD an idiot.

I Second Life the Retirement community for all the ex-hippies? Lucky for me, I'm about 30 years younger and the future of America.... Hahahaha, You'll rest easy knowing that my generation will be running the show. lol

Hello again,

Once again you are assuming that what happens in the real world must happen here. There have been banks in SL for several years already which have shown much less info and legal content than what we do.

We could go back and forth all day on what an "expert" would be considered in regards to investing in a MMORPG. But, I have studied the economies of many MMORPGs, including SL's, have invested and sold different MMORPG currencies, am a graduate Econ student, and have traded real world currencies and stocks with positive gains for over 12 years. I'm sure there are very few, if any, people in the world more qualified than I in regards to inworld MMORPG currencies and investing.

The only contract between me and the depositor is, that we can not be held liable or responsible for any and/or all lose. That is it. That is the contract.

There are many different MMORPG which have "banks." Even the companies whom run the games call them banks. You seem to think there is some law which you must follow in order to call yourself a "bank." There is not. I could call myself a bank and sell chicken if I wanted.

There are no half truths on our note card.

I may describe my project in further detail at a later time, but right now I simply don't have the time or the need.

Our holdings are diversified exactly as stated.

I have talked with several lawyers, and there is simply no way, from several different angles, that the bank could be held liable for any lose. Not even considering that LL itself states on their TOS that L$ has no value and is simply play money.

One thing interesting has happen, though. From the day you posted your "SL Bank = Ponzi" thread the volume of new deposits has exceeded withdraws 35% higher than before, even though, at the same time, we have lowered interest rates, a bit. It seems that people viewing our thread may see this as being more transparent, and thus want to deposit more. Or maybe the activity of the thread has gotten the world out there about the bank. Interesting indeed.

It is my bank, my experiment, and my ass if something bad happens. If you don't like it, don't invest. I'm taking the risk, if you don't want to, don't deposit. The "fun" thing about SL is we can do things here, which we may not be able to in the real world. Lighten up, and as you said in a previous post, have some "fun" with your projects.

Summary: Don't like project or risk = don't invest. Like project & risk = invest

Good luck with your sex book sales, virtual sex tutoring and escorting service...

Cheers!

WTF? Lady you are crazy. It is a GAME! You are acting like SL Bank is the world bank or something. They are using PLAY MONEY. I've used Ginko for years and all their notecard says is, "There is risk. Here is how to deposit."

I wouldn't ever want you to come into my store. Talk about three hours of talk with no resulting sale. Save your breath, Teufel.

....I hope you're kidding. People make real livings off of this game. Philip stated last may that close to 100 people do.

In another thread you wrote on 07-04-2006:



/130/e0/118016/9.html#post1125573

Which of these statements are we to believe given you were born on 07-02-2006?

Bull-crap, it is full of confusion, double talk half lies and at least one proven lie. At one point you say it is savings, at another you say it is an investment, at one point you say it is low risk, at another you say it is high risk.

And then there is the lie that you are an 'expert'. You are a student that doesn't even know proper financial language, let alone be an 'expert'. That claim is laughable.

And then there is that bull crap about diversified investments. You can barely buy 3 different penny stocks for the funds you claim to have let alone the diversity you imply.



My mind boggles at this lie. No lawyer would say that, perhaps one of your prelaw friends might. I also note that it would have cost you more than all of your deposits to get this fictional advice.

BTW, the TOS says no such thing about the L$ having no value. Linden Labs is at least smart enough to know they cannot make such a claim. All they say in the TOS is that LL will not redeem it. If you are going to make silly claims, at least do a little research first.



I'm so glad you posted that the above statement. If there was any doubt before, you are now completely liable. Have fun in court. BTW, I've kept copies of all your post, and I'll gladly deliver them to any lawyer. Also note, I do have a deposit in your bank and therefore I now have a fiscal interest <g>.

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You seem to think that somehow you are exempt from US law within SL. SL is an Internet platform and as such is subject to the same laws as any other web site or virtual business. The extra layer of Second Life itself and the L$ does not change this at all. I guarantee you are not exempt from the law. Your only current protection, as I've mentioned before is you are small potatoes. That might protect you from criminal prosecution but it doesn't protect you at all from civil prosecution.

You asked for my advice and I gave it. And it is a hell of a lot better than your fictional lawyers. I suggest you take it.

Ok lady. The above is your opinion, and I have my own. I'm sorry I don't take fin advice or law advice from sex tutors and virtual escorts. What you do, in my mind, is unmoral and simply gross. Those are my opinions, yet I don't go around crying about what you do or posting attack threads.

You have been rude, condescending, arrogant, assuming and simply mean in many of your posts. I simply don't have the time to argue with you all day and considering I don't even like you, I am done with you.

And now I'm lying about talking to lawyers? I spoke to two very good friends whom graduated top of their class at Columbia Univ seven years ago and focus on Fin Law. I had conversations with a friend from NYU law, and another from Georgetown. They never charged me, as they are friends. I'm sure you'll demand their names and phone numbers and SS numbers, etc. LOL. I think I'll take their advice over the advice of a virtual sex tutor, anyday.

Your statement about not being able to diversify as we state, shows your lack of investing knowledge.

I don't need to be "exempt" from any laws, as I'm not breaking any.

So now you have an account? You think my bank is a scam, and an illegal bank, that I'm no expert, yet you invest in such a project? Now you are simply a hypocrite.

You saved copies of my posts? This is a public forum, lady. Save away.

You may be retired and have the time to sit around and talk about trivial issues which have been discussed 100 times on these boards over the past two years, but I do not. You could at least say, "Hey, I have my opinion, but I wish you luck." Instead, you continue to attack my project like you're on some kind of mission. It is really getting old.

Have a good life...

It sounds to me like Marla is trying to panic the bank and get you to raise interest rates to slow withdraws so she can profit more off of her own account. Although you say the opposite is happening. So I guess that didn't work out for her. Or if not, she's at the least trying to be like, "I have an account, if you mess up, I'll sue!" No matter which is happening, I'd ban her ass from your bank and you might want to get a restraining order. She seems nuts to me. Holding copies of your posts for lawyers in the future? She seems obsessed, stalker like and or harassing. And people wonder why no one in SL is willing to give out personal info.

Well I do not think that virtual reality financial worlds will remain pernamently outside the reach of various regulatory bodies but like off shore Hedge Funds they currently reside in a grey area of the law.

I think we should reserve judgement on what happens here, as I said in an earlier post noone here has scripted a time machine.