Land and 2nd Accounts

Sorry Yuriko, I prefer to listen to what the Lindens think on this issue than what other residents think. But only because the Lindens have made their stance perfectly clear.

EDIT TO ADD: And I happen to agree with their stance.

If you sign up for an alt account and upgrade it to a premium, LL gets $19.90 so why would they care if for that $19.90 you got a 512m2 ? You should get something for that price...lol

On the other hand, $19.90 buys you $L4939 which you could buy a nice one or two 512m2's with in so why bother with the hassle of a second, third and so on account?

As far as I can see it's also cheaper to have all the land under one account as well.

Now I am a newbie here and maybe I'm missing something but that's how I see it right now. There are ways this system can be exploited, there is no doubt of that, but with either of the two above methods I don't see any exploitation.

It's good to hear that LL actually has a stand in this whole Alt and First Land issue. It's great, really. It's the whole argument regarding Legality vs Morality/Ethics of alts and first land that it's getting old and tiring.

Really?????? *searches for calculator*

Forgive me, April, but purely as a bystander here, I feel I should point something out. Your praiseworthily moral stand is undermined if you use fallacious argument to support it.

The above quote is false. LL cannot reliably identify alts. It cannot and does not "keep track of alts". I will not go through the reasons again, but if you sit down and think carefully, you will see why. It can track accounts using the same CC, or address, or regular IP number, but these are not at all alts, and many alts are in none of these categories.

In fact, you do see half the difficulty, because you yourself describe the problem of thinking someone is an alt when they are not, thus:

This your own logic makes it clear that reliably "tracking alts", and even using the number of them in calculating the amount of first land to release, is clearly a nonsense. Even if LL did ever say this (which I have never seen) it must have been a fib. They, of course, wish to preserve the fiction of their "all-seeing-eye", but in fact it is illusion.

You weaken your own argument, April, by basing it partly on such an erroneous assumption.

My own position on this is half way between you and Coco.

As long as firstland is in short supply then yes, it is bad for an established user to take it, and thus deprive (delay?) acquisition by a newbie.

On the other hand, a premium alt should be entitled to all the benefits he/she has paid for, particularly since such a subscription (other things being equal) contributes more to the world financially ($ paid/resources used) than any other sort of subscriber. Particularly a free-born basic-account-holder who can contribute nothing at all, in fact be completely parasitic.

Alts pay more to use less.

The answer (and the blame for what you complain of) lies with LL.

If there is an adequate supply of first land then no newbie need be deprived or inconvenienced

Morality only enters the question if supply is inadequate to meet demand. Otherwise it is a purely financial issue.

The originating crime is LL's.
Why is the supply of first land not full and adequate for all ?

I see absolutely no justification for this. When I joined there was always lots. Spoilt for choice in fact.

So in my opinion April and Coco are both right.
April in the current unacceptable circumstances.
Coco in the situation as it should be.

LL commit a crime of undersupply, so it behoves us to try to reduce its effect on moral grounds (as you propose).
But if LL behaved well, and there was always plenty, then Coco's position would be fine.

Actually I can't speak for 'alt' accounts on different credit cards, but I CAN say when I phoned LL for some reason and gave them my acct name....Nyx Divine, they immediately ticked off hubby's acct name and the 3 other 'alts' we have between us. So they were well aware of all 5 SL accounts created w/ that particular credit card.

My stand is to help new people.

I am sorry this offends someone.

LL created a very good program that is useful to retain new members.

Give people with little experience a chance to own a small piece of land at a price they can afford with their sign up bonus.

Whether you feel it is immoral or not, having experienced residents competing agains new users in a program designed for new residents is not fair.

If you think there should be some discount for every premium alt account, perhaps you should petition LL to create such a program.

This program is in place to help new residents buy their First Land. To show them, inexpensively what it is like to own land. If you already have land under another account, why do you need this experience?

Premium accounts come with it's own specific bonuses. It comes with 512 sq of tier and $L500 a week stipend. That's it. There's no built in bonus of inexpensive land.

I also would like to point out that I do not benefit from my stand. Other than to help people. I have and will continue to try to help people, especially the new residents. I don't know why I would be attacked for this stand.

It's in our best interest to help provide a positive experience for new residents at SL. I can sympathize with anyone wanting a cheaper plot of lot. But let's not sacrifice a program designed to help new residents just to get a bargain.

I would even be willing to start an assistance program for people who have already bought land to increase their holdings. We could solicit donations and have fundraisers. We could ask landowners to donate lots for "Second Land Buyers Program". We could do something other than abuse a program designed for another purpose.

For Pete's sake, we are down to only 6% of the population buying land! Can you let go long enough to think on ways to make SL worth buying for more people?

I think SpeedTree would help a lot. People want the land they buy to look cool, and I think SpeedTree would help that.

I also think putting a stop to small plot land extortionists would help. A lot of people don't buy land because they're afraid impeach bush will move in next door.

OK, my last post was, as usual far too long (I'm a LIBRA, for heaven's sake).

I'll try again :

If first land was always in really plentiful supply, so any newbie always had a wide choice regardless of how many alts were taking a share, would that remove the objections ?

If not, why not ?
Wouldn't it just become a financial question, which could be argued both ways ?

April ?

US voters have the solution in their hands. Impeach Bush, and doubtless the signs would disappear.

Only half serious, Blaze

I can and do only deal with what is here and now. The situation as it stands is that there are times when there are no First Land, like when Coco was looking for some when she was new and couldn't find any.

But hypothetically, even if there was an abundance of First Land and alts were allowed to buy, two things would happen. First, all the prime spots would go to alts. I remember my First Land was waterfront, I just wanted a deck that swung over the water, didn't know it was prime land. That was such a treat when I discovered it was. Second, it will devalue the current land that anyone is trying to sell, making it harder for anyone to sell 512 at market price.

I feel sad that I am constantly questioned about this. I am starting to feel like a criminatl for wanting to do what I feel is right.