Economy, L's and stipends....
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Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
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03-28-2006 17:22
From: Selene Gregoire I'm basic. I work my ass off making things for sale. I do not use camp chairs. Are you going to punish me along with the other basics that work thier assess off for something others do? I'm chewing up bandwidth? Hey! so are you premiums that don't bother to make anything for sale. Why pick on just the basics? Why not go after the premiums who just have fun and don't bother to work thier asses of trying to make it in SL? There you go we're in agreeance again. Let's stop generalising about what sort of people the different types of account holders are.
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Selene Gregoire
Eyes of the Wolf
Join date: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 681
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03-28-2006 17:38
From: Jason Foo I always thought that the basic accounts were to be just that... basic. Which means a sort of trial play where you can interact with SL, but be restricted in what you can do. I like the fact that basic account holders can't buy land. Unfortunately, they can still rent. But why do we keep allowing these basic players to be able to even sell stuff in world? If you want to operate in SL like the rest of us, you should pay like the rest of us. and I don't care if they can sell their L$ somewhere else, stop them from selling on the lindex! Restrict the lindex for paying players only. Basic members can still buy L$ from the lindex, but not sell.
Buying and selling is a two way street. If they are allowed to buy they should be allowed to sell. Restricting the Lindex to only premuim accounts is a form of discrimination. It's either an open market or it isn't. And unless I am mistaken it is an open market and was set up that way by LL on purpose. If basics aren't allowed to sell then what makes you think they will buy from Lindex and not look to other sources? Be it black market, IGE, E-bay or what have you. If I can't sell there why would I buy there. And if basics aren't buying from Lindex then that reduces the number of people who are buying from Lindex thereby cutting down any profits those who are selling make. You're just shooting yourself in the foot with this idea.
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Dmitri Polonsky
Registered User
Join date: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 562
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03-28-2006 19:10
From: Selene Gregoire Buying and selling is a two way street. If they are allowed to buy they should be allowed to sell.
Restricting the Lindex to only premuim accounts is a form of discrimination. It's either an open market or it isn't. And unless I am mistaken it is an open market and was set up that way by LL on purpose. If basics aren't allowed to sell then what makes you think they will buy from Lindex and not look to other sources? Be it black market, IGE, E-bay or what have you. If I can't sell there why would I buy there. And if basics aren't buying from Lindex then that reduces the number of people who are buying from Lindex thereby cutting down any profits those who are selling make.
You're just shooting yourself in the foot with this idea. Ok try this one on for size. I personally am only rsponsible for Linden giving me 50L per week ( and some weeks they mess up and never do BTW). I put a lot more than that into the system though to maintain my shops and keep creating stuff. The only lindens that go out of the in world economy are going into Linden's servers due to texture upload fees. So. Let's see if I was a premium I'd be getting 500L per week and therefore would be responsible for TEN TIMES AS MUCH FREE L"S hitting the poor declining market.. You guys are barking up the wrong tree totally with the get rid of basic stipend talk. It's a drop in a bucket on the economy. Instead let's limit via the ToS the amount of L's the money mongers can sell per month, require that they sell them ONLY via a central server Linden can monitor and if anyone is caught selling on e-bay then it's a bannable violation of the ToS. Watch the L go back up in value when ppl can only sell up to say 200,000 per month.
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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03-28-2006 19:22
From: Lasivian Leandros I'm in favor of doing away with stipends.
I think if people are forced to spend RL money for things rather than free money they are given each week their buying choices will improve. Freebies will be more important to the economy, and users will learn better not to throw money away on junk. (I say this even tho I pay my monthly costs from other peoples stipends, my sales would be sure to suffer) This will not happen because when I put my US225.00 down for my lifetime account, I was told in Writing I would get my stipend of 500 a week. This would be a break of a promiss in writing if it were so. And I would be highly angery
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Adam Zaius
Deus
Join date: 9 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,483
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03-28-2006 19:29
From: Magnum Serpentine This will not happen because when I put my US225.00 down for my lifetime account, I was told in Writing I would get my stipend of 500 a week. This would be a break of a promiss in writing if it were so. And I would be highly angery Uhh, wernt lifetimer accounts provided BEFORE the changes of 1.2? And I highly doubt you were given a written contract saying 'Account will get L$500/wk.', especially given the above fact.
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Selene Gregoire
Eyes of the Wolf
Join date: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 681
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03-28-2006 20:48
From: Magnum Serpentine This will not happen because when I put my US225.00 down for my lifetime account, I was told in Writing I would get my stipend of 500 a week. This would be a break of a promiss in writing if it were so.
And I would be highly angery Then I think you should get ready to be angry.... From: someone In an economy as hot as that in Second Life, infusions of new money balance the rapid growth of the economy and keep the currency exchange rates fairly stable. But, as the economy begins to slow (Second Life's economy will cool down; if it continued at this rate it would be the largest in the world in only a couple years!) Linden Lab will reduce the amount of money that we put into the economy to keep the Linden Dollar from becoming worth too little!
This means that stipends, traffic incentives, money given to new Residents and other forms of entitlements will be steadily reduced. This will happen carefully, and over time, all in an effort to preserve the value of the Linden Dollar – making it a constant, reliable currency in Second Life. http://secondlife.com/newsletter/2006_03_22/#EDIT
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Perwin Rambler
Registered User
Join date: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 152
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How about this as a stipend idea
03-28-2006 21:09
Keep the basic accounts at 50 L after all everyone deserves to have a little fun.
Keep the premium stipend at 500 L they do pay 9.95 in USD after all.
My change would be that if this avatar sells or otherwise make 1K, or 2K or maybe 3K in Linden in a week that the next week they don't get paid their stipend, they did prove they were able to make more than the stipend.
if their sales go too low, then their stipend picks back up.
Would it really be too hard to do a simple math calulation for this?
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Dmitri Polonsky
Registered User
Join date: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 562
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03-28-2006 21:44
From: Perwin Rambler Keep the basic accounts at 50 L after all everyone deserves to have a little fun.
Keep the premium stipend at 500 L they do pay 9.95 in USD after all.
My change would be that if this avatar sells or otherwise make 1K, or 2K or maybe 3K in Linden in a week that the next week they don't get paid their stipend, they did prove they were able to make more than the stipend.
if their sales go too low, then their stipend picks back up.
Would it really be too hard to do a simple math calulation for this? there are already weeks when I do not receive my stipend. Knowing the way they work things that addition to the software would be buggy as Hades and cause all sorts of issues. Like people literally losing money out of thier accounts. Another thing that has happenned to me BTW and when I said something nothing was done of course.
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Lina Pussycat
Texture WizKid
Join date: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 731
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Ok....
03-29-2006 02:04
One Question here why are people stating surplus of L is a problem here? it wont lessen or anything. We dictate what L is worth people get greedy and want fast cash so they sell at a lower value thus putting people that want to sell fast as well in another position to put it even lower and it keeps going that way. Its got nothing to do with what people have but rather their inpatience in the system of people buying L at a decent price. Your trying to relate the issue to r/l where bigger corporations dictate prices of products or goods. The fact of the matter is each individual in SL dictates linden value. You could opt to sell it at a higher value and just wait and mabye help try to stabalize it rather then rushing about. There is no problem with surplus at all unless your a person that has a surplus and wants to sell fast!
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Dmitri Polonsky
Registered User
Join date: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 562
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03-30-2006 00:46
From: Lina Pussycat One Question here why are people stating surplus of L is a problem here? it wont lessen or anything. We dictate what L is worth people get greedy and want fast cash so they sell at a lower value thus putting people that want to sell fast as well in another position to put it even lower and it keeps going that way. Its got nothing to do with what people have but rather their inpatience in the system of people buying L at a decent price. Your trying to relate the issue to r/l where bigger corporations dictate prices of products or goods. The fact of the matter is each individual in SL dictates linden value. You could opt to sell it at a higher value and just wait and mabye help try to stabalize it rather then rushing about. There is no problem with surplus at all unless your a person that has a surplus and wants to sell fast! Good call Lina, however now the real voice of dissent has started with the threat of introducing a whole new currency that is totally of zero worth to the vast Majority of us. Check the new threads....and ask..Mirro mirror on the wall, who is greediest of them all. Why the little land baroness herself of course.LOL
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Dmitri Polonsky
Registered User
Join date: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 562
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This is going to get interesting.
03-30-2006 00:59
People should be following the threads about the THREAT of a new currency. And while you're at it, might be instructive doing a search about anything pertaining to previous dealings done.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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03-30-2006 08:19
From: Selene Gregoire People have stopped rating others because of two things. 1) the cost of rating someone else (it has gone up since I've been in SL) and 2) they no longer get anything in return. I got here right after the last rating increase, but before the rating bonus went away. I got a bunch of ratings the first month, all at L$25, but then they dropped away to almost nothing when the bonus vanished. I think that "the recipient doesn't get anything" is the main reason people don't rate any more. Not because you don't get anything or because the cost is too high, but because they're not worth anything to the recipient. And, really, they're not. But if you got something for being rated, people would do it. L$25 is nothing to someone with a premium account, but it's not worth it if you're spending it on nothing. Make it worth L$10 the week you get it, L$5 the next, and then nothing... and you get your stipend if you're getting *any* bonuses from ratings.
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Burnman Bedlam
Business Person
Join date: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,080
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03-30-2006 08:38
You know, the more I think about it, the more I am interested to see how much new L$ enters the economy compared to how much L$ gets spent on classified ads, image uploads, etc. etc. Is there truly a surplus coming in? I know that on average, I spend about L$250-500/week on classified ads and another L$100+ on image uploads. Which, on a slow week, is almost all of my stipend... on a busy week, it's definitely a LOT more. I know that there are some people that upload insane amounts of textures... others never upload. I'd love to see the numbers on this one. How much of the perceived *surplus* is smoke and rumor, and how much of it is legitimate?
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Burnman Bedlam http://theburnman.com Not happy about Linden Labs purchase of XStreet (formerly SLX) and OnRez. Will this mean LL will ban resident run online shoping outlets in favor of their own?
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Cocoanut Cookie
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,741
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03-30-2006 11:16
From: Shaun Altman I have to share something here, that has no bearing on my personal view of stipends. The fact is though, every time LL is planning a major change to the platform, those who don't like it come here and explain why the world will end and LL will be out of business if this change is implemented. Then, LL implements the change anyhow, knowing better.  After the change, not only does the world fail to end, but it continues to grow. This has been repeated time and time again. Personally, I'm getting more than a little bit tired of hearing about how everyone's going to quit and the world is going to end every time LL decides to do something that's good for the platform.  I don't think it will be the end of the world at all. I do think it will be the end of the world as we know it. And I think it will mean fewer businesses, a far greater concentration of business in the hands of the few (including land), and those businesses will depend largely on revolving door players who come in, buy a few things, and depart. coco P.S. Perwin - the loss of the stipends is a done deal. LL has stated that they will do it, but gradually. I suppose there is some chance they would change their minds, but probably only one in a thousand chance. "Gradually" probably means over, say three months, and very, very soon, I believe.
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