New Residents Being Scammed?

Interestingly, I see 7 new Sims on the map today in the new continent.

They seem quite flat and easy to build on - with a desert kind of theme.

They're each named "Bambino", numbered two through eight.


/ponders

The problem is that it is difficult at first for new people to generate revenue. If you take away their ability to generate at least some revenue on their first land and worse yet, kick them off the land after 30 days or so, where will they go?

When I was new to SL, there were tons of classes available. I would go to two or three a night. Even with that much help, I did not have the skill level to generate anything that I could have sold. When I check educational opportunities now, I'm lucky if I see four classes during an entire day.

While I think the "magic double your money cube" is comparable to RL scam developers that offer elderly widows a fraction of what their property is worth, nevertheless, they walk away with at least something.

I think that as mentors, greeters and just generally established members of the SL community, we need to make sure that we tell new people about what their land sale options really are.

I also think that Anshe is right on the mark with her suggestion that the SL community get together and form some kinda organization that deals with scammers and liars in SL.

Though let's not forget that the new person also holds some responsibility for their own well being and enjoyment of SL. Not many people in RL would sell their property sight unseen without finding out what the real market value is.

Just my 2 L.

If a CEO of a Ponzi scheme posts about scams in a forum, does it make a sound?

OMG ROFLMAO WYSIWYG LOLZIES!!!!111

I wonder, would i be able to scam the scammer. I haven't bought any land yet. And it is very tempting to buy some first land, and put it on sale for 10240. I wonder i they would notice the extra zero in their greed.

Also many of them at Dryas..I AB them also!

Good idea!
I just did it on the one in Achemon.
Interestingly, it asks you to pay ten dollars to go onto the lot, but it's Linden land.
Weird!

New policy to keep out griefers?
or a grief attack itself?

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[Edit: Er, I read the Group pop-up wrong, ignore my post. ]

-Ghoti

Definiely C anyway, but intent has to be proven in a court, it's not obvious or self evident. It would mean applying a community standard, in RL , a jury would sufice.

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Wouldn't that get rid of all the trees as well? that would make all protected land and all newbie land look kind of bad.

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Well said.

I think this is despicable practice and I followed Surinas suggestion of puttting up competing informaiton on the "scam," but some of the solutions mentioned here, like perma-banning (sorry blaze) and seperate sims for newbies are *way* over the top IMO.

More rules and regulations are hardly ever the appropriate solution and for every "law" you need more "cops" (lindens). We already live in a virtual police state in RL. Do we really want that here? It would be nice to think that we could have a few *less* laws here than out in that other horrible world.

We should get together as a community and solve this problem ourselves.

How about an SL wide boycott on cetain groups of juvenile individuals that perpetrate these things? If there was a Merchants Aassociation or Guild of some kind to swing that kind of power, people would knuckle under.

What if you could never buy land from Anshe Chung or go to PixelDolls if you were a member of <insert idiot group title here>? People can also be banned by group membership. Anyone except the "Lone Ranger" type of griefers could be marginalised perhaps until they only travel in their own little group.

Just an idea, I am sure there are holes in it.

Not exactly. IIRC, purchase will reset the autoreturn to 0 anyway (someone correct if wrong, been a VERY long time since I've bought land). Besides, an alternative would be to set No Build which may also be reset on purchase and not have these issues.

For protected land, the foliage and infrastructure should (and probably is) already set the appropriate group and/or owner (I think group for Linden land is Maintenance). So autoreturn will not affect that.

What I'm looking for is a simple solution, one that LL would be willing to implement short-term. What happens long-term is best discussed by those who interact with newcomers more than I do these days.

Firstly I don't agree with what's being going on with the new land, and I don't think anyone will argue that what is going on is anything but morally corrupt, although I will give the people involved credit for creativity.

Perhaps a suggestion half way. Make new land purchases untransferrable for say 7 days. You'll take away what's going on pretty quickly. Also make sure that items such as are being left on new land prior to purchase by a newbie are unable to be left there as they currently are (auto-return??). You'll then reduce the quick turn around on new land, and given the discounted price to start with, it's not a unreasonable request, but at the same time you'll also allow newbies to obtain an asset which after a little more time they are able to then resell should they so desire to...hopefully enough time for them to become SL smart in relation to land prices and the marketplace. Personally I'm always against such restrictions, but I'd support an idea similar to this as a compromise.

As for some of the other suggestions here that newbies shouldn't be sold to I'm dead against. By all means provide a small amount of protection for newbies, such as I have suggested with first land, it would be, afterall, an investment in making sure that they stay with SL in the longer term, but denying them the rest of the SL experience (free trade) actually denies them the whole point of SL in the first place. As to people who pay $L2500 to see topless avatars (an earlier part of this thread), if you're that stupid and depraved then tough luck.

caveat ēmptor!

Alot of people are calling this a scam because they feel the noobs are getting taken advantage of. So why is it that when one of my friends got an offer from a person who has already posted in this thread, condemning this "scam", at a much lower price then what this "scammer" is offering? I smell hypocrisy. Condemn one person's offer as a scam but then you yourself offer at a much lower price, which either suggests that 2/ms is a fair price or that the other person is an even worse scammer. Ya so I'm all for forming and "organization that deals with scammers and liars in SL" as well as the hypocrites.

I am pleased to see that I have provided you all with some decent topic for conversation and that you have enjoyed discussing the questions I have raised.

Scammer?? Maybe.
Business head?? Definitely!!
Discusting?? Debatable but I wouldn't necessarily disagree.

Just to put your minds to rest. I am neither rude nor objectionable to my clients (or victims as some might say), griefing is not my game. What gives me great pleasure is exploring avenues and ideas that have always existed but have yet to be discovered.

OK so no more cigarette giving prim boxes, but you will see me again. Lets see what I can give you to discuss next time around.

Remember:- Rate me I always rate back =)

SL Loonie

Don't do that... I mean, don't overprice it. Just don't set it for sale and period.

It was an interesting discussion. Clearly opinions vary.



In my book, definately a scam. The mileage of others clearly varies.



I'm actually glad that you explored this avenue. Hopefully your method of automating this before the new resident even purchases their first land has focused LL's attention on the scale of this problem. I think this may be the case judging by how quickly your operation was brought to a hault. This can't be a bad thing.



I for one am looking quite forward to seeing your next operation. Your ingenuity leads me to believe that you could probably do great things as well as evil things. Hopefully your next operation won't be so fringe.



I have done so.

Not my cup of tea but I gotta say I don't have a problem with this. Caveat Emptor.

In addition to being supposedly helpless, newbies are hopefully adults in rl and should have the sense to analyze financial transactions as they do in rl. If I am a newbie and some random person tells me, "this is how we do it in SL," I deserve what I get if I take that one random person's comments as gospel. I think LL does a good job in instructing newbies where to go for help and since (again) we are all supposed to be adult and know how to gather and analyze before purchasing or selling.

Jimbo -- you hit it. Some of the people pontificating on this topic are grade A hypocrites who are kicking themselves more for not coming up with the idea in the first place but hiding behind this shroud of morality. I love it when people tell me whether someone is morally corrupt.

Or maybe they are not kicking themselves, or hiding behind anything, and DO think its low? Na that couldn't be possible, could it?

Shhh! You're interfering with thier hip cynicism!

I got the standard message back from LL saying that my abuse report has been investigated and resolved. Are those cubes still there? (I'm at work ATM and can't check)

If the cubes are still there, that means that LL approves of this method. In which case I see that as an opportunity. We could make cubes of our own to place on these lots that give useful newbie FAQs and some gear, and more importantly, they can warn the newbies away from this aweful scam.

Fight fire with fire.

-Ghoti

Its not cynical when I have an actual example of hypocrisy. Friend wanted to sell land and was going to sell to "scammer" but I said don't because its a scam and suggested to sell from someone who posted in this thread figuring since that person condemned the scammer, that person would make an offer higher then 2/ms because anything under that would make the "scammer's" price actually seem fair and therefore cease to be a scam but a legitimate business transaction. My friend ends up getting an even lower offer which confuses me how that can be. Bascially summed up this thread.

Aggressive Advertiser: TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS OFFER, DOUBLE YOUR MONEY! 2/MS!!!

Noob: Alright I'll sell to you.

Hypocrites: DON'T! Its a scam! They are trying to rip you off! 2/ms for land! That is such a scam!!!

Noob: Alright I'll sell to you guys instead. So what are you guys offering?

Hypocrites: 1.5/ms is our offer.

Noob: Ummm....What??? That's a lower offer then the scammer?

Hypocrites: 1.5/ms is all we can offer you.

Noob: So how come aggressive advertiser is a scam again?

Hypocrites: Ummm.....he's using big big letters and words like "advantage" to sell his land when it is in fact more advantageous to sell to him but nevermind that. He's using evil tricks like leaving advertisements right next to you. That's just morally wrong. And don't get me started on him giving out free gifts. That just reeks of treachery. Come join us, jump on the bandwagon, and together we can find other people who are aggresively advertising to noobs and offering better prices then we ourselves can offer.

Noob: *Ignores*

It's an interesting assertion, but thanks to the forum rules, not provable. No one's winning that argument.

Besides, hypocracy doesn't mitigate that the topical offer is an attempt to seperate the ignorant from thier land for a pittance.

It should also note that by giving up your first land, you're making it so you cannot buy first land again, and will need to go through the pains of hunting down a nice plot amidst the drudgery of clubs, malls, giant black cubes of death, spinning signs, and strip joints that infests SL....

(Some malls are cool. But I really wish they'd sort commercial/residential better)