Second Life Forums Archive - Unfairness of rental properties

Kathmandu Gilman

Fearful Symmetry Baby!

Join date: 21 May 2004

Posts: 1,418

02-01-2005 13:35

Just a note to let you know that some items set to return are not being returned as they should. In some cases it dissapears forever, sometimes it shows up in your inventory days or weeks later. I had a hut on Bora Bora that would automatically return items after a week, if I forgot to rerezz my items they would be returned. Unfortunatly I have lost a couple of items that way, my GF has as well. Some things make it to inventory, some don't.

Malana Spencer

Registered User

Join date: 18 Sep 2003

Posts: 368

02-01-2005 13:37

From: Aradia Maelstrom

In complete frustration, I come to the forums for some support in the disaster that has befallen me and some of my friends.

I had rented 2 apartments at Garrison Cliffs and prepaid my rent for 5 weeks. I then set about furnishing said apartments with my objects. After a week or so, I had things just as I liked them and set about living my SL.

Unfortnuate RL circumstances took me away from SL for about a week and a half, so the only contact I had with SL was thru my e-mail. I have all my in-world messages sent to my e-mail box. I had been receiving spam about Tim Rockwell (land owner) booting people from the group. He then sent a group message stating that he had decided to sell the land for over 400k L$ and that he didn't believe that it would sell any time soon. Hmm...ok. One day, my SL almost partner called me to tell me that all of my belongings along with the apartments had been deleted. OMG There was no further message from the land owner stating that he would be deleting the apartments or that tenants should remove their belongings.

Ok see that's just morally WRONG. You should have been notified as soon as he knew the property was about to be sold & given the choice to either 1) pick up your items
or 2) have him RETURN them to you. I see no reason your items should have been deleted.

I logged into SL as soon as I could only to find that he was right. Everything was gone! I contacted LL to see what could be done and was told that, basically, I was SOL. There was no regulation between land owners and renters. Well, I sent an IM to Tim Rockwell asking for a refund and my itmes returned. I recieve a refund for the remainder of time I has paid for rent, but nothing of the over 4k L$ in items from the apartments.

Unfortunately, I am NOT surprised that LL was unable to take any action. what this person did was Morally wrong but NOT against TOS in any way that I can see
since your items were deleted & NOT returned I agree with you, he should have refunded you for the objects as well as remainder of days.

I'm completely frustrated and have changed my account from premium to basic. I do believe, that unless I am reimbursed for the loss that I have suffered, I will cancel my SL account altogether. Am I wrong to be completely disgusted with this person's behavior and LL neglect in the matter of dispute resolution?

I totally understand your frustration & I am so sorry you had such a horribly negative experience with renting a place in SL. You have to know that not ALL SL Landlords conduct business this way. There are some of us that work hard to provide a nice place for people to reside & we do have ethics. I can't even begin to imagine doing something like this to ANYONE
I know it's hard but please try not to let this deter you from staying in SL & maybe even attempting a rental place again. *hugs* to you & best of luck.

Kim Anubis

The Magician

Join date: 3 Jun 2004

Posts: 921

02-01-2005 14:12

I've been a tenant in Chase's Manhattan for months and months, and I'm here to say that some landlords in SL are just great! (But not Chase -- she's the epitome of evil! hehe)

Locked doors are not going to keep out a determined griefer . . . there are all sorts of ways to get past them. As Prok said, if someone's hassling you, ask the landlord to ban him. And if you really do want to "lock" the place, check my shop in Manhattan for l o t u s Privacy Glass . . . it has a Phantom on/off lock that works on voice. Can't guarantee it'll keep someone from sitting on a box and editing himself through the wall, though.

There are some nice apartments & shops available in Chase's Manhattan (in Hawthorne) right now, btw, and free Art & Wine Festival booths on the waterfront, as well. If you're interested in an apt. or shop, contact the Evil Landlady, Chase Rutherford. For info about the booths, click on one of the info signs near Manhattan Fountain.

_____________________

http://www.TheMagicians.us

Malana Spencer

Registered User

Join date: 18 Sep 2003

Posts: 368

02-01-2005 15:41

From: Zephyr Psaltery

FWIW, after writing to Lindens and bitching loudly here and to everyone I could in support and abuse reports, my rent was repaid by Tim with a slight premium, in the amount of 500L$ total. The rental on my unit was 350L$ per week and I had just paid for a week when he deleted the property. Many of my items were returned to Lost & Found, Objects and Trash (not quite sure how SL makes the distinction of where!), but I still lost severl thousand L$ worth of belongings due to deletions
I would have to recommend that no one rent apartments in SL for two very solid reasons...

1. There is no security..not even minimal security, because landlords do not build with lockable doors, even though they easily. I was sexually harrassed in my apartment at Garrison cliffs and was finally forced to buy land to feel safe. the current Linden practice of leniency (Fifth offenders on indecency and disturbing the peace only get a 14 day suspension) make it stupid to live in apartments.

I can not speak for SL landlords (obviously) but I CAN tell you the reason why we do not have locks on our doors is because they are useless. If someone wants to get into your place all they have to do is right click & Sit on an object in your apartment & they are in. It's that simple. We have NOT really had a problem without the locks though & we have been without them for a long time. We have a NO tolerance policy against griefing of ANY kind on the island. If someone Griefs they will be banned. We also have individual parcels for our renters in which when requested we can add a ban/access to their parcel.
2. There is currently no protection other than the possible goodwill of the landlord for the safety of your belongings and the continued existence...there are no leases and no means to enforce them if there were. Linden labs is just as vulnerable to damage as tenants, for a largescale landowner cans udenly sell his land an leave the game, converting his ill-gottne wealth to cash on the exchane and vanish. Credit card issuers protect the consumer at the expense f merchants like Linden Labs, so everyone can lose! Until there are decent standardsof commerce that are enforceable, we stand to be victimized again and again.

I am only thankful that some of the value lost was returned, but...landlords, sorry--never ever again!

I am sorry to hear that your rental experience was a bad one. I think it's wise when you are gonna rent/buy anything to do some research first. Check out the reputation of the business/person(s) you are renting/buying from. Not all landlords are looking to rip people off. There are reputable rental businesses within SL.

Schwanson Schlegel

SL's Tokin' Villain

Join date: 15 Nov 2003

Posts: 2,721

02-01-2005 17:26

From: Malachi Petunia

The landlord could have returned all the tenants' items with by clicking "return" just as easily as they as he did by clicking "delete". Whether through ignorance or malice, deleting instead of returning was really scummy.
.

I do not know what happened in this instance, but this feature is broken. Returning a large parcel's contents deletes most of the items that are supposed to be returned. I have seen this happen ALOT lately.

_____________________

Alan Palmerstone

Payment Info Used

Join date: 4 Jun 2004

Posts: 659

02-01-2005 18:03

It sucks to keep seeing this happen. I haven't had it happen with rental homes (Malana is a great landlady!) But, it has happened to me a lot with malls. The land owner will build a place, place rent cubes, fill them up and then sell the land to a new owner who promptly returns everything and says to go find the original owner to get your rent back.

Back when I was in a lot of malls, it was a weekly occurance to see my email get filled with returned item messages. The really devious evil landlords will delete your items to give them more time to flee! At least then they are returned, you know it. When an item is deleted and you don't visit that location daily, you really get screwed.

Good to see the community rally around this.

_____________________

Visit Parrot Island - relax on the beach, snuggle at the waterfall, ride the jetskis, make a movie and buy a pool!

Chase Rutherford

Oldbie Conspirator

Join date: 6 Sep 2003

Posts: 126

Free 20-prim Booths

02-01-2005 22:40

From: Kim Anubis

There are some nice apartments & shops available in Chase's Manhattan (in Hawthorne) right now, btw, and free Art & Wine Festival booths on the waterfront, as well. If you're interested in an apt. or shop, contact the Evil Landlady, Chase Rutherford. For info about the booths, click on one of the info signs near Manhattan Fountain.

The Wine Festival has been extended to the end of February. After that, we'll have resets every few weeks.

Moleculor Satyr

Fireflies!

Join date: 5 Jan 2004

Posts: 2,650

02-01-2005 22:58

If your items were deleted, check your trash folder, I hear that they sometimes pop up there.

_____________________

</sarcasm>

Bruno Buckenburger

Registered User

Join date: 30 Dec 2004

Posts: 464

02-04-2005 09:48

From: Aradia Maelstrom

Wow! You guys are amazing!

Thanks so much for your offerings and friendship! I guess I haven't explored SL enough to run across good people like you!

Most of my furnishings were made my Skye (last name escapes me)...and I never did think it necessary to note the maker, just landmark the store I bought it from! DOH!

I don't think I will leave SL. Now that I know that there are many more people out there who could make my SL experience a good one, I believe I'll carry on!

<3

I have a ton of Sky Designs furniture. IM me in world and I'll hook you up.

Unfairness of rental properties
Kathmandu Gilman Fearful Symmetry Baby! Join date: 21 May 2004 Posts: 1,418	02-01-2005 13:35 Just a note to let you know that some items set to return are not being returned as they should. In some cases it dissapears forever, sometimes it shows up in your inventory days or weeks later. I had a hut on Bora Bora that would automatically return items after a week, if I forgot to rerezz my items they would be returned. Unfortunatly I have lost a couple of items that way, my GF has as well. Some things make it to inventory, some don't.
Malana Spencer Registered User Join date: 18 Sep 2003 Posts: 368	02-01-2005 13:37 From: Aradia Maelstrom In complete frustration, I come to the forums for some support in the disaster that has befallen me and some of my friends. I had rented 2 apartments at Garrison Cliffs and prepaid my rent for 5 weeks. I then set about furnishing said apartments with my objects. After a week or so, I had things just as I liked them and set about living my SL. Unfortnuate RL circumstances took me away from SL for about a week and a half, so the only contact I had with SL was thru my e-mail. I have all my in-world messages sent to my e-mail box. I had been receiving spam about Tim Rockwell (land owner) booting people from the group. He then sent a group message stating that he had decided to sell the land for over 400k L$ and that he didn't believe that it would sell any time soon. Hmm...ok. One day, my SL almost partner called me to tell me that all of my belongings along with the apartments had been deleted. OMG There was no further message from the land owner stating that he would be deleting the apartments or that tenants should remove their belongings. Ok see that's just morally WRONG. You should have been notified as soon as he knew the property was about to be sold & given the choice to either 1) pick up your items or 2) have him RETURN them to you. I see no reason your items should have been deleted. I logged into SL as soon as I could only to find that he was right. Everything was gone! I contacted LL to see what could be done and was told that, basically, I was SOL. There was no regulation between land owners and renters. Well, I sent an IM to Tim Rockwell asking for a refund and my itmes returned. I recieve a refund for the remainder of time I has paid for rent, but nothing of the over 4k L$ in items from the apartments. Unfortunately, I am NOT surprised that LL was unable to take any action. what this person did was Morally wrong but NOT against TOS in any way that I can see since your items were deleted & NOT returned I agree with you, he should have refunded you for the objects as well as remainder of days. I'm completely frustrated and have changed my account from premium to basic. I do believe, that unless I am reimbursed for the loss that I have suffered, I will cancel my SL account altogether. Am I wrong to be completely disgusted with this person's behavior and LL neglect in the matter of dispute resolution? I totally understand your frustration & I am so sorry you had such a horribly negative experience with renting a place in SL. You have to know that not ALL SL Landlords conduct business this way. There are some of us that work hard to provide a nice place for people to reside & we do have ethics. I can't even begin to imagine doing something like this to ANYONE *I know it's hard but please try not to let this deter you from staying in SL & maybe even attempting a rental place again. hugs* to you & best of luck.**
Kim Anubis The Magician Join date: 3 Jun 2004 Posts: 921	02-01-2005 14:12 I've been a tenant in Chase's Manhattan for months and months, and I'm here to say that some landlords in SL are just great! (But not Chase -- she's the epitome of evil! hehe) Locked doors are not going to keep out a determined griefer . . . there are all sorts of ways to get past them. As Prok said, if someone's hassling you, ask the landlord to ban him. And if you really do want to "lock" the place, check my shop in Manhattan for l o t u s Privacy Glass . . . it has a Phantom on/off lock that works on voice. Can't guarantee it'll keep someone from sitting on a box and editing himself through the wall, though. There are some nice apartments & shops available in Chase's Manhattan (in Hawthorne) right now, btw, and free Art & Wine Festival booths on the waterfront, as well. If you're interested in an apt. or shop, contact the Evil Landlady, Chase Rutherford. For info about the booths, click on one of the info signs near Manhattan Fountain. _____________________ http://www.TheMagicians.us
Malana Spencer Registered User Join date: 18 Sep 2003 Posts: 368	02-01-2005 15:41 From: Zephyr Psaltery FWIW, after writing to Lindens and bitching loudly here and to everyone I could in support and abuse reports, my rent was repaid by Tim with a slight premium, in the amount of 500L$ total. The rental on my unit was 350L$ per week and I had just paid for a week when he deleted the property. Many of my items were returned to Lost & Found, Objects and Trash (not quite sure how SL makes the distinction of where!), but I still lost severl thousand L$ worth of belongings due to deletions I would have to recommend that no one rent apartments in SL for two very solid reasons... 1. There is no security..not even minimal security, because landlords do not build with lockable doors, even though they easily. I was sexually harrassed in my apartment at Garrison cliffs and was finally forced to buy land to feel safe. the current Linden practice of leniency (Fifth offenders on indecency and disturbing the peace only get a 14 day suspension) make it stupid to live in apartments. I can not speak for SL landlords (obviously) but I CAN tell you the reason why we do not have locks on our doors is because they are useless. If someone wants to get into your place all they have to do is right click & Sit on an object in your apartment & they are in. It's that simple. We have NOT really had a problem without the locks though & we have been without them for a long time. We have a NO tolerance policy against griefing of ANY kind on the island. If someone Griefs they will be banned. We also have individual parcels for our renters in which when requested we can add a ban/access to their parcel. 2. There is currently no protection other than the possible goodwill of the landlord for the safety of your belongings and the continued existence...there are no leases and no means to enforce them if there were. Linden labs is just as vulnerable to damage as tenants, for a largescale landowner cans udenly sell his land an leave the game, converting his ill-gottne wealth to cash on the exchane and vanish. Credit card issuers protect the consumer at the expense f merchants like Linden Labs, so everyone can lose! Until there are decent standardsof commerce that are enforceable, we stand to be victimized again and again. I am only thankful that some of the value lost was returned, but...landlords, sorry--never ever again! I am sorry to hear that your rental experience was a bad one. I think it's wise when you are gonna rent/buy anything to do some research first. Check out the reputation of the business/person(s) you are renting/buying from. Not all landlords are looking to rip people off. There are reputable rental businesses within SL.
Schwanson Schlegel SL's Tokin' Villain Join date: 15 Nov 2003 Posts: 2,721	02-01-2005 17:26 From: Malachi Petunia The landlord could have returned all the tenants' items with by clicking "return" just as easily as they as he did by clicking "delete". Whether through ignorance or malice, deleting instead of returning was really scummy. . I do not know what happened in this instance, but this feature is broken. Returning a large parcel's contents deletes most of the items that are supposed to be returned. I have seen this happen ALOT lately. _____________________
Alan Palmerstone Payment Info Used Join date: 4 Jun 2004 Posts: 659	02-01-2005 18:03 It sucks to keep seeing this happen. I haven't had it happen with rental homes (Malana is a great landlady!) But, it has happened to me a lot with malls. The land owner will build a place, place rent cubes, fill them up and then sell the land to a new owner who promptly returns everything and says to go find the original owner to get your rent back. Back when I was in a lot of malls, it was a weekly occurance to see my email get filled with returned item messages. The really devious evil landlords will delete your items to give them more time to flee! At least then they are returned, you know it. When an item is deleted and you don't visit that location daily, you really get screwed. Good to see the community rally around this. _____________________ Visit Parrot Island - relax on the beach, snuggle at the waterfall, ride the jetskis, make a movie and buy a pool!
Chase Rutherford Oldbie Conspirator Join date: 6 Sep 2003 Posts: 126	Free 20-prim Booths 02-01-2005 22:40 From: Kim Anubis There are some nice apartments & shops available in Chase's Manhattan (in Hawthorne) right now, btw, and free Art & Wine Festival booths on the waterfront, as well. If you're interested in an apt. or shop, contact the Evil Landlady, Chase Rutherford. For info about the booths, click on one of the info signs near Manhattan Fountain. The Wine Festival has been extended to the end of February. After that, we'll have resets every few weeks.
Moleculor Satyr Fireflies! Join date: 5 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,650	02-01-2005 22:58 If your items were deleted, check your trash folder, I hear that they sometimes pop up there. _____________________ </sarcasm>
Bruno Buckenburger Registered User Join date: 30 Dec 2004 Posts: 464	02-04-2005 09:48 From: Aradia Maelstrom Wow! You guys are amazing! Thanks so much for your offerings and friendship! I guess I haven't explored SL enough to run across good people like you! Most of my furnishings were made my Skye (last name escapes me)...and I never did think it necessary to note the maker, just landmark the store I bought it from! DOH! I don't think I will leave SL. Now that I know that there are many more people out there who could make my SL experience a good one, I believe I'll carry on! <3 I have a ton of Sky Designs furniture. IM me in world and I'll hook you up.

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Unfairness of rental properties