Unfairness of rental properties

In complete frustration, I come to the forums for some support in the disaster that has befallen me and some of my friends.

I had rented 2 apartments at Garrison Cliffs and prepaid my rent for 5 weeks. I then set about furnishing said apartments with my objects. After a week or so, I had things just as I liked them and set about living my SL.

Unfortnuate RL circumstances took me away from SL for about a week and a half, so the only contact I had with SL was thru my e-mail. I have all my in-world messages sent to my e-mail box. I had been receiving spam about Tim Rockwell (land owner) booting people from the group. He then sent a group message stating that he had decided to sell the land for over 400k L$ and that he didn't believe that it would sell any time soon. Hmm...ok. One day, my SL almost partner called me to tell me that all of my belongings along with the apartments had been deleted. OMG There was no further message from the land owner stating that he would be deleting the apartments or that tenants should remove their belongings.

I logged into SL as soon as I could only to find that he was right. Everything was gone! I contacted LL to see what could be done and was told that, basically, I was SOL. There was no regulation between land owners and renters. Well, I sent an IM to Tim Rockwell asking for a refund and my itmes returned. I recieve a refund for the remainder of time I has paid for rent, but nothing of the over 4k L$ in items from the apartments.

I'm completely frustrated and have changed my account from premium to basic. I do believe, that unless I am reimbursed for the loss that I have suffered, I will cancel my SL account altogether. Am I wrong to be completely disgusted with this person's behavior and LL neglect in the matter of dispute resolution?

I think that sucks, but I have 2 questions...and they may be totally obvious but I'm still very noobish.

1. How can someone else delete your objects? Don't they get returned to you if someone shoots them off their land?

2. If you had a premium account, why were you renting? Especially for 1000 $L a week?

Best of luck in recouping your property,
~Jaz

Well, as annoying as it is, unless this guy coughs up the money, you are out of luck. LL avoids meddling in our affairs normally, so they wont help you. There is also no real legal recourse, you cant sue him in RL and SL (thankfully) doesnt have a government. About all you can do is abuse report the guy for scamming or something like that. Well, and be thankful it was L$4000 (about 16 US on GOM), and not real currency.

Well, no.... you aren't wrong to be completely disgusted. If I were you, I'd make a big stink about it in game, so everyone knows who is responsible. That way, they can't rent properties any more. Unfortunately, there's not much else you can do. Without any sort of contracts or enforcement, people need to rely on trustworthiness. And some people got it, and some people don't.

The Lindens probably aren't going to help you. But I for one hope you don't take off. Renters are going to turn out to be a big part of the economy, and you make a valuable contribution.

And really, if ya quit, all you do is leave... leaving isn't going to get your stuff back. Try to write it off as a loss, find a better landlord (talk to anshe chung or jamie otis). And don't pay your rent in advance.

Good luck. I know this sucks.

In response to the renting question...the rent wasn't 1000k a week, I paid for 5 weeks in advance. I think it was 250/week for each apartment. I did have land at one time, but the montly tier charge was just more than I could handle financially. First land only gives you 117 prims and that's about enough for a rug and a couch...

I wouldn't be so upset about losing the items that had been deleted if some hadn't been repurchasable (?). Being that I've been in SL since early September, there are quite a few things that I had that are no longer available.

I'm just frustrated with the renting issue in general. Since cancelling my tier and selling my land, I have rented from 4 different people only to have those people decide that they were no longer going to offer rentals. I realize that if I had my own land, I would no longer have to worry about such things, but the financial aspect of it is hard to handle atm.

Thanks for your responses!! <3

it's sad aradia but there is no recourse for breech of contract inworld. even a prepayment doesn't guarantee goods or services.

jaz, land owners can either return items or delete them. the premium question is valid. the only advantages to owning a premium account are $450L a week and the ability to own land. on the surface, it seems odd to pay a monthly fee and not onw your own lot even if it's just the standard 512sm.

rental properties come and go with the wind. they spring up and disappear daily. if you think i'm trying to spook you, it's only because i am. too many people have been shafted too often by fly-by-night operaters thinking that rentals are some sort of get-quick-rich scheme. if you really really must rent land, housing or shop space, at the very least, ask around and rent something that's been around for a while from someone who's been landlording a while.

there are a few faithfuls around the map that have been renting space to people longer than six months. these are people that work to keep their properties nice and their clients happy. they understand that making money in second life takes just as much time and dedication as it does in real life. find one of them and know that your arrangement is secure.

The landlord could have returned all the tenants' items with by clicking "return" just as easily as they as he did by clicking "delete". Whether through ignorance or malice, deleting instead of returning was really scummy.

With the way rental properties are currently not "supported" by either the game mechanisms or by Linden customer support, I think this should serve as a caution to anyone contemplating rental. If you are renting space in SL, you should assume that the landlord owns all of your goods and chattels and has no obligation to you whatsoever no matter what was said or paid.

all your objects could easily have been sent back with no extra effort using Return instead of Delete. The fact this wasnt dont means the land owner didnt even care to send you your items back, and just deleted them. This should never be done unless objects are nuisance value items or griefer objects. Its polite before removing any object off ur land to IM the owner and ask if they need it back, if in doubt return.

It was poor manners to delete your possessions. Ask the owner why he didnt return instead of delete. If he didnt care, demand a refund of your objects value.

I have two apts available for free in Olive. Its Olive Garden Apts. Look in Find under homestead. I will be in the process of expanding those apts so they are bigger. You get 200 prim usage and all I ask in return is that you IM me when you leave so that somebody else can enjoy them. Your items will only be deleted if you do not have them set to group or you do it yourself. I can reserve one for you if you want. The other one is up for grabs for the first person who IMs me inworld. Good luck and don't let an asshat like that deter you from enjoying the wonders of SL...by the way...I am one of those dreaded feted inner core, altho...a pretty lonely one since all I do all day long is build...so I am also a dreaded content baron also....good gawd!! I guess you might want to avoid me at all costs...lol.
I have maintained the same property for over a year and a half..so it aint' going nowhere and I have no need of lindens.

Aradia, I can't speak for others ....but if you have purchased anything of mine, I will be glad to replace it. To delete is uncalled for. Good luck! Mash

Thanks for answering my questions. I didn't realize owners could delete stuff on there land. On my own little plot, I just set return to 5 min.

I misread your statement, Aradia. I thought you said he returned the 4000k l in rent (hence, 1000/wk for 4 weeks) but now I see it was 4000k in property.

Sorry about all the stuff you lost. If you are interested in some furniture, I bought I couch I'm not using recently.

Good Luck,
~Jaz

Dear Aradia,

I am so sorry that this happened to you. Quite obviously as everyone has pointed out, the landlord could have returned the items to you without a headache and you would not have lost your possessions.

I have tons of furniture in my inventory and would happily give you what I have (I dont have an apt right now so my furniture is not being used).

I would like to help you stay in SL and help make things better for you. Please IM inworld and I will meet you at your new abode and help you set up home.

I am currently developing a theme park and if you need to take the edge off drop by sometime. We are located in Honeoye and its called Club Carpathia.

Additionally, if there is anything you need at all, please ask, maybe I can help. (I am a newbie so I might not understand the implications of what you have lost but I can try to help).

Sorry for your horrible situation!

Sir SnazzyMcBugbearRidiculous Palmerstone

I too may have some furnishings you can have if they're transferable (I would have to check) Just let me know in world and I'll sort through my inventory for any requests you might have. We recently, my partner and I, repurchased a bunch of items that we lost as well as items we liked together...so we have duplicates. IE I have one kind of couch, but we liked this other one better for our home so we don't need my couch any more, type stuff.

Just make your wish list and IM me or drop me a note card and I'll fix you up!

Renting is not a get-rich-quick scheme, it's a lot of work, and tenants shaft landlords just as often as landlords shaft tenants, I reckon. Tenants can also disappear and not renew their rent payment and agreement on the automatic box, and a kindhearted landlord might wait a few days or a week and not delete their stuff, but then have them either never appear, or move or whatever. So don't let one bad experience, which seems not the norm from my own observations, ruin this method for you, because it saves on tier payments for you.

It seems just a common courtesy for landlords to set autoreturn to return objects not set to the group, or to press "return" on any set of objects, rather than to delete them. In fact, to personally go in and individually delete an object is so much trouble, that it seems unreasonable.

Since Tim seemed to leave the game rather hastily, and his land went "public," are you sure it just wasn't a matter of those lots resetting in the game and tossing off all objects? Maybe the land got set to "return all objects" once his group was gone if they were in a group? Maybe they are in Lost and Found (I never knew I had such a folder, because it doesn't create in your inventory until there's something to put in it). Check that, it's worth it.

Come and rent with us if you like in Ross or Alston, you can just put in tier or pay cash to a box which gives you a refund for a small fee. Your objects will never be deleted, merely returned, that's the standard practice in this business.

Wow! You guys are amazing!

Thanks so much for your offerings and friendship! I guess I haven't explored SL enough to run across good people like you!

Most of my furnishings were made my Skye (last name escapes me)...and I never did think it necessary to note the maker, just landmark the store I bought it from! DOH!

I don't think I will leave SL. Now that I know that there are many more people out there who could make my SL experience a good one, I believe I'll carry on!

<3

if i was going to landlord housing or stores, i'd list references in my profile so potential clients could check with other people before doing business with me.

Well, I'm not sure about the group being deleted as I am still recieving spam mail about promoting a new officer in the group.

Glad you are going to stay with us! You might do a "find people" search on skye and see if you can't find the vendor. Not everyone is accessible, but you're not the only one to have a problem with this instance -- I believe anshe even posted about this earlier (but it might have been someone else) -- but if you contact the vendor and explain, it is possible you will get replacements. Even if you can't replace those exact objects, I am glad to see the community embracing this and offering help! (if I had furniture, i'd offer them to you too!)

FWIW, after writing to Lindens and bitching loudly here and to everyone I could in support and abuse reports, my rent was repaid by Tim with a slight premium, in the amount of 500L$ total. The rental on my unit was 350L$ per week and I had just paid for a week when he deleted the property. Many of my items were returned to Lost & Found, Objects and Trash (not quite sure how SL makes the distinction of where!), but I still lost severl thousand L$ worth of belongings due to deletions
I would have to recommend that no one rent apartments in SL for two very solid reasons...

1. There is no security..not even minimal security, because landlords do not build with lockable doors, even though they easily. I was sexually harrassed in my apartment at Garrison cliffs and was finally forced to buy land to feel safe. the current Linden practice of leniency (Fifth offenders on indecency and disturbing the peace only get a 14 day suspension) make it stupid to live in apartments.

2. There is currently no protection other than the possible goodwill of the landlord for the safety of your belongings and the continued existence...there are no leases and no means to enforce them if there were. Linden labs is just as vulnerable to damage as tenants, for a largescale landowner cans udenly sell his land an leave the game, converting his ill-gottne wealth to cash on the exchane and vanish. Credit card issuers protect the consumer at the expense f merchants like Linden Labs, so everyone can lose! Until there are decent standardsof commerce that are enforceable, we stand to be victimized again and again.

I am only thankful that some of the value lost was returned, but...landlords, sorry--never ever again!

Zephyr

As one matter of fairness I have to add to what I said and posted earlier: After several days of silence (and me sending IMs, reporting abuse and writing e-mail) I have received refund of my rent paid to Tim, which had been for one whole mall and prepaid 14 weeks so was quite some amount. So eventually Tim did not run with the money as far as I am concerned.

What happened with Tim's land still remains one complete miracle to me though. Tim throwing away several thousand US$ worth of telehub land just doesn't make sense to me.

I am glad that you are staying and also pleased to see the community respond so well to you. I vouch for the validity of Sulumor's offer; I hope you take her up on it.

I think you may be thinking of Skye Designs. When I get in world I shall toss you some spare L$ to help you regain your furnishings.

further to before I am glad you have decided to stay in SL. Come see me in Tehama and I will help you in a small way to get sorted again.

As for rentals all being bad in all fairness I say (I am not a landlord and only provide free housing) although I own near two sims I still do have a rental apartment from a high level player and land owner which I keep cos I like it and wanted a small ' escape' place away from sims I work in. I do not experience problems in this because the landlords is a most professional player who would behave properly. My advice is to rent only if you have checked with others about the bahaviour of that landlord and can receive assurance.

Sorry to hear that has happened to you, and by the sounds of it, many others. He SHOULD NOT be allowed to get away with it. IMO the "delete" button for other persons items should be removed from the options. As a renter, I do know there are some landlords that shouldnt be allowed to have a first life, never mind a second, but there are some that are good. Darren Beckett is a good landlord who doesnt delete but returns items, reasonable rents with lockable doors. Dont completely give up hope for one $%@#! (sensored for very bad language)

For me I like the "personal" touch to it, having poeple approach me & inquire. While I would have no issues about giving out references if asked I like the idea that people come over & look around to see the houses & meet us. Additionally, Many of our tenants have come to us word of mouth & others have been with us for several months.

Also, they could take it upon themselves to speak with some of the current tenants before they rent the space.

Your experience is a cautionary tale, and merely reinforces the notion that the best way to have security is to buy land, even a little 512 with your First-Land privilege. With a premium account, you get 512 tier for free, and you can spend just $512 and get the things you want in terms of security from harassment, up to point, and security for your belongings, up to a point. But I would have to say that even the regular Linden game troubles make you lose items, and sometimes they just tell you they're sorry they lost something, and well, make do....and people can harass you even by just buying next to you and building a griefing tower so I guess there's no real ultimate uber security, but only some reasonable approximation.

But rentals offer you a way to avoid tier, problems with land ownership such as the need to sell when you are blocked by ugly builds or bothered.

And you can ask the landlord to ban harassers from the parcel, and you can abuse report.

It's understandable that you feel there is "no protection" to enforce leases. But remember that the whole point you rent is to avoid the hassle and expense of Linden tier fees, which can really bite, and the hassle and expense of land ownership and resale, which can really be a burden. There are many more happier renting relationships in the game you can establish, and we would be happy to try to ensure what we can for you.