L$285: Camping for L$3/10min or Buying

Lewis if you are going to quote me do me the courtesy of occasionally addressing the points in my post. Don't use my words as a launhpad for unrelated negative rhetoric. It's a highly transparent evasive tactic. You never address the content of my posts, you just dodge and hide behind another rant.

I can choose to reply to or ignore any part of any post.

As can you. Feel free to put me on ignore if you wish.

Back to the original point... camping chairs and other "pay per time" lamearse ways of attracting visitors produce far more negative effects to the game than the tiny amount of positives, or benefit to a small amount of people that feel they have no other way to make money.

This is an issue that has been close to my heart over several games I have played over several years. I have seen time and time again the damage it does to the quality of everyone's experience, and it amazes me how some people fail to.

Lewis

No. Quote me, then you don't get to ignore my whole post. You don't get to dodge the questions if you quote me. If you choose to ignore me, then don't quote me. Show people some f@#king respect for a change.

You do realise the irony of asking for respect then swearing at me in the process?

Lewis

Dude it's a fraction of what you've dished out. A very tiny fraction.

I am not aware of ever having had to resort to unnecessary swearing on these forums.

Now, if you'd care to stop attacking me and return to the subject in hand of the futility of camping chairs, I'm sure everyone still reading this thread will appreciate it.

Lewis

So someone's RL job that allows them to buy $L and maximize their leisure time on SL is lower in the mind's of the "online game-playing community" than the person who camps 15 hours so they can buy a bling necklace?

Bling Wearing Camper = winner

I need to change my game play a bit or people will think I'm a loser.

Who are these people getting ahead of anyway?

But are you coming out ahead? If you're that strapped for cash, surely leaving a computer on 24/7 isn't exactly helping your electricity bills, and your $L payout isn't going to cover that, or if it does, provide a meager fraction of a pittance to spend otherwise.

Our rent includes all utilities such as electricity, heat, water and sewage.

Sitting in a camping chair to me is an exploitation. This game was never set up to carry a bunch of afkers and people have to defeat the afk timer in order to do it. Exploitation always costs the general population. Besides having to "pay" with added lag, camping has cost the players of SL other programs that were designed to stimulate creativity such as the Dwell Incentive Program. The next thing it will cost is the entire Dwell program just to eliminate campers and we will all have to pay to keep clubs from folding. Camping is a VERY VERY BAD thing! It has to be eliminated at all costs.

Although I agree Camping is a bad thing for SL I do not agree that it alone will be the death of the remaining Traffic Bonuses. Traffic Bonuses will slowly go away because the economy needs money sinks not sources.

A better position to attack the camping issue is from the perspective of server load causing lag and crashes which make SL unplayable for many people.

Why shouldn't we pay clubs to enjoy what they offer. We do in RL in many cases and the reality is they are a business. It's a very bad business model that relies on handouts to sustain itself.

Lewis I'm not going to continue this with you anymore tonight, but swearing was not what I was talking about and you know it. You are not prepared to actually discuss anything, you seem to only come here to be negative and issue dogma, so ultimately I don't see a point in prolonging this. Our discussion is taking up too much forum space, I'm sure others would like to get a word in about something else.

I camp at times, Im really not ashamed of it or feel any stigmata.

When I joined SL I had a CC, I even had a premium account.

Severe rl issues have ended my CC and my premium account. I now live with 3 other people who all leave their computers on 24/7 so Im not really concerned about the power bill.

SL is a great way for people with severe disabilites, including me, to socialize. I cant work, I have a limited income and no way to buy L.

Most times when I am camping I am doing something else on the computer, or Im at the doctor, or Im sleeping.

Am I freeloading? I dont see it that way. Its an ingame system and I dont really see how it goes against LL's TOS, though if im wrong point me in that direction. I have two art galleries and a vintage clothing store. I use my $L to upload textures, art, buy presents for friends and shop for myself. So I dont just sit in the chairs and sell $L like so many people are concerned about.

*shrug* I dont wear bling, I dont visit clubs, Im not Gor... etc etc... I spent the last two days at Numbakulla, and thanks to camping I could afford to tip them! (thank you to all the people involved in that btw, such fun!)

So... whats my point? Im not sure, maybe I wanted to give the anti-campers an idea of what one camper out of many thinks.

So be it. Bring on the flames. I camp, Im not ashamed, if it ever gets taken out of game well... places like numbakulla will have less support, and hopefully I'll find another way to make some $L ... its not like my galleries or store is paying out all that well (not yet at least! *crosses fingers*)

Oh, I know all about server loading and lag caused by campers. There was a time I couldn't even get to my own home because a casino in the sim was dominating all the resources with camping chairs. It is probably why I take such a strong stand against camping.

But while I do tip my DJs when I go to a club, I am thinking of the new people who do not always have the income to do that. I personally would like to see the tipping as a nice option and not something mandatory to sustain their existance as they do make SL a better place. Unfortunately every plan to help them is met with a new exploitation.

There is so much talk about eliminating this and eliminating that and then there is the stipends... SL is a tough game to pin a "cost" on. We have a premium account that gives an allowance that people want to eliminate. Even the very core of this camping problems rests with a question I hear from new people all the time, where can they get a "Job".

I believe a percentage of the premium account should have a stipend, some spending money. Perhaps the biggest problem isn't the amount but how it is taken from the economy. Perhaps it should be a set dollar amount that is taken from the fluctuating Linden Market instead of creating new money.

I agree. My family and RL come first. This is just a game, one I could walk away from in an instant. I pay the premium.. which is probably stupid, since I can get more L$ just buying it straight out than paying a monthly fee for land that runs the risk of being hounded by scripted idiot objects. *shrug*

I camp when I am working on a row of textures, or just can't be home. It's boring, which is why I usually do it when I am away or otherwise occupied. Keep in mind that I also pay for internet, paying for my computers, which eats the money I /might/ have used to spend on the L$. Sadly, even if I did have the money to buy L$, I see no compelling reason to do so, since I would rather earn the L$ in game. (Heck, it's the only challenge the game affords me as a creator-type!)

I didn't come into this game with my sights set on "Insta-RL cash." I am also not going to toss the money out to buy more L$. This would seriously hurt my fun.. because really, what else is there to do?

just my 2L

I honestly don't think LL needs to eliminate anything. What they need to do is create new sinks.

Pay to change your name but only payable in L$

Pay part or all of tier in L$

Perhaps a voluntary fund people could donate to that would support official educational events rather than the fee LL pays registered teachers. This would take money out of the economy rather than adding it.

Pay in L$ to increase group limit. Maybe 100L per group over 15.

I personally like the idea of a sliding scale of upload costs based on image size (I do not remember who originally posted this one sorry). Smaller the image the cheaper the upload. This provides a bigger sink and at the same time works to reduce texture lag and data storage stability issues. Something similar might work for animations and sounds too based on file size.

There are probably 100 other possibilities we as residents could come up with that LL could use rather than removing stipends or traffic.

Lets put our heads together and find them.

That in itself should be a clear message to anyone that camping is a problem. As overriding the timeout is clearly cheating, that alone should be sufficient reason for the end of camping chairs, as the majority of people will be cheating to continue their use of them.

All LL need to do is visit a few camping chair venues (not hard to do because they advertise themselves in events), and message people asking them for a response. If they do not respond within the timeout limit (15? 30 minutes? Don't know, never been afk long enough to be logged out), give them a 24 hour suspension with the risk of increasing penalties if they are repeatedly caught CHEATING.

A couple of days concentrated effort sweeping a few well known places in the game WILL make people think twice about camping and cheating (both begin with C and end in ING ... coincidence? I think not).

The risk of being busted will make people sit at the computer whilst camping, then when they are entirely bored stiff they may just seek out some slightly more entertaining things to do in world.

If education doesn't work, force will be required. If we lose a few, so be it. They cannot say they weren't warned of the consequences of their cheating.

Lewis

I agree totally. Extended AFK is cheating. Outside programs are being used to keep long term AFKers from being dumped as the game is intended to do. This in itself is a violation of the EULA or should be, and certainly should be grounds for suspensions.

Sitting in a camping chair should not be a substitution for "working" in SL. Just following this thread gave me ideas for a job for someone, an employment agency... People need to find real jobs in SL. Sitting in a camping chair is not a job. We need active members in our community, not inactive ones.

Well, you know what the solution is - crash a camping sim today!

*get out toruses*

Whilst intentionally crashing a region is a violation in itself, and obviously not to be recommended, is there any reason why LL can't 'reset' regions on a rolling programme every day? This will disrupt users for maybe 3 minutes (0.2% of the day) in that region. Legitimate users will simply log back in and carry on, and campers will find themselves sitting at the login screen.

A minor disruption for a great improvement. Seems fine to me.

Lewis

Actually although I like this idea on surface value there is a real reason for not doing this. As Frost and I were informed when we asked a Linden to do a reset of our sim because it was behaving horribly anytime they reset a sim there is a chance it will not come back up properly. THis causes the need to bring in staff to the office to hunt for the problem and can in some cases depending on the problem cause other sims to go down. Resetting is a risky business only to be undertaken for real need.

On a number of occasions I have reported poor performance (sim fps down to 3, physic fps 0.2, for example) to live help, and a Linden has come over to check it out, and reset the region. I walked across the border and watched everything disappear in front of me, peered cautiously down into the big hole where Hector should be, then watched it come back up just fine.

Whilst I'm sure that there are occasions when it doesn't work, I don't know the rate of failures against successful reboots.

Lewis

Then why are you still here?

lets assume the reboot process is successful 99% of the time. There are several hundred sims. Resetting them all even once a day means on any day at least some of them won't come back up. It just isn't a realistic use of LL employee time particularly latenight and on weekends when staff will have to be called into the office and possibly paid overtime.