L$285: Camping for L$3/10min or Buying

I glanced at a camping chair, and it got me thinking. Why would ANYONE capable of accessing SL do this?! AT ALL?!

Camping: L$285 in 15.833 HOURS!
$1.00 USD: L$285 in 1 minute or so!

The time and hassle here are so far apart that it's just rediculous. 15.833 HOURS of someone's time is not worth $1.00 USD? This just CAN'T be.

Why are these people embarrasing themselves and wasting so much time over $1.00 USD? Could it be that they're just THIS opposed to spending money for entertainment? Or, could it maybe be that people come to SL "pre-programmed" by online games, to think that they're not supposed to buy money, but are instead supposed to "earn" it by finding some in-world equivelant to shooting an asteroid, clubbing an NPC over the head, etc? Camping certainly ranks right up there with these activities.

I think the second is more likely. I just can't imagine anyone (even AFK!) spending all that time and hassle to avoid spending $1.00. Perhaps an educational campaign highlighting the differences between SL and online games, as well as highlighting the importance and usefulness of LindeX, could go a long way towards ending this "digital farmer" mentality.

Wow, I didn't know the difference was so big. Fifteen HOURS for a DOLLAR?

Jeebus

I would be highly surprised if you didn't burn more than - or at least very close to - $1 worth of electricity leaving your computer on for 15 hours too.

So campers are really actually probably making the grand total profit of about 2 cents an hour. That's fantastic.

Not.

Lewis

What this shows, to me atleast, is that people are not getting the L$ to cash out, but to use for in-game purchases. Yeah, that $1 is a joke, but L$285 is a new outfit or two, or some time at a casino, or any of the other things that you can purchase in SL. To a lot of people, the whole US$<->L$ thing is a non-issue. They don't care as long as they have enough L$ to enjoy themselves and have a good time in SL. If they couldn't get L$ to buy the things they want, and do the activities they want, they'd probably leave SL or just stop buying things.

Considering there is practically little else to do to earn money, chair camping is some what of an only resort for new folks. Not to mention, I can minimize SL while I open up a browser and surf the web, all while "earning" L$ for doing absolutely nothing. Or, to be politically correct, I can minimize SL while I learn to code and/or play aroung with textures in photoshop.

Argh. It's just like real life: if you want money, work at it. But think of it as creative play, not work.

There are dozens of markets in SL that don't have a niche filled yet. Find it, exploit it, retire early with billions.

I think that you may have failed to read my post in it's entirety, and/or properly understand it. I am simply highlighting the EXTREME differences between two different ways of obtaining L$285. What's done with that L$285 after it's obtained isn't relevant to the discussion.

Along your train of thought, however, I really can't picture someone purchasing L$285 on LindeX to sell it again. This would both cost USD money, and defeat the point of acquiring L$285.

That's exactly the problem.

In other games, there is a risk if you go afk. You may get robbed by another player, or attacked by a monster. In SL there is no problem if you go afk, even if you are cheating by overriding the timeout function you aren't likely to get caught.

There is, essentially, nothing to do - regardless of whether money is involved or not - unless you are involving content created by yourself or other players. Open-ended is a great pipedream but totally impractical; as a new player you know nothing and have no means of legitimately earning money (I discount camping because its an exploit rather than a design feature).

Which is why we need some optional way of making money that is fun and interactive. Games are all well and good, but if you don't have the money in the first place you can't even play. Which leaves us with the basic "Best ...." competitions, or camping.

Lewis

There are plenty of games that you can play for free and make money at. Tringo, Slingo, Blood 21, Quintzee, etc. I have never played any of these games at a place that requires you to contribute to the pot beforehand.

Just so you know, this reads very condecendingly.

Anyways, I do admit that I still had my head in the context of the weekly Stipend 'Chicken-littling' and 'Ostriching' discussions. But to tie my post back into your topic, I know quite a few people who refuse to pay money to _play_ a game. They will buy the game to play, but when it comes to continuing to pay, they flatly refuse. Purchasing L$ is just an extension of Pay2Play that they abhor.

Also, as was pointed out above, small LindeX transactions aren't practical, and there are many people who don't have an extra $20 to spend on a game. And neither of these possible reasons covers those who don't, for one reason or another, have a valid credit card or debit card that they can purchase L$ with.

A fourth possibility would be people who see it as a way to constructively spend their downtime. They may be at work or asleep, so it's possible they figure it's better to make a little L$ reather than make nothing. If they just did this while sleeping: L$18/hr * 8 hrs * 7 = L$1008/wk. And I'm sure they would leave their characters logged in during their working hours too: 40hrs * 18/hr = L$720 + L$1008 = L$1728/wk. OVer a month that's potentially L$6912. Not a small chunk of change.

Well I have been around for a few months now and no longer camp; I agree it is not really viable all things considered. However being of a devious nature I understand that if one of you lot have a fairly powerful computer, sufficient knowledge to partition your hard disk, and quite a few alts, it might be possible to run multiple versions of the Second Life viewer and camp all your alts together.......

In fact that’s possibly quite nice for them to meet up and have a chat and party away while not being interfered with by their human owners.

Mind you there was one occasion when an experienced player (Tim Maret) mis- programmed a camping chair. It paid out $L6 every 2 minutes and temptation got the better of me, naughty really. I worked out later that the poor chap forgot to put another zero in the script but in those days I was quite innocent about scripting.

I did this for my display at the Christmas thingie. I had my main and an alt putting on a little skit. I ran into issues because I was having them walk around, and the macro I had created would move my avs ~ .5 foot away from their start point. It was no problem until the 7th or 8th loop, my characters were wandering into other displays.

So it is quite easy to run several instances of SL and macro them to interact. As long as they don't move around, one could set it up < 15 minutes.

My computer starts to act really funky if I run more than 2 instances, but have had as many as 6 running on one machine.

Can you think of any other term except 'freeloaders'?

In most things, you contribute nothing, you deserve nothing. It's a shame that LL forget this basic truth of existance.

A Premium account in its basic form is $9.99 a month. What does that get you? A cinema ticket? A couple of burgers? Three magazines? If you can afford a good enough computer to play SL, and cable/broadband internet, then $9.95 shouldn't be any issue. Name me one other thing that gives so much entertainment for so long, for so little.

Lewis

I know, but it's just insulting to the poster when someone responds to a post without digesting it first. What else could I do really? Perhaps we both could use a bit of forum etiquette.



So then, camping is a viable way to punish the cheap? Make them sit around for 16 hours if they refuse to spend one singular dollar. Makes sense, and could help to motivate people to participate more in the economy. I just don't get why anyone would sit for 16 hours to avoid spending one singular dollar in the first place. Do these people also sit around McDonnald's holding up a sign or something until someone brings them a free hamburger?

I just don't get it.




I find it hard to wrap my head around any of this. First, is there a minimum spend on LindeX? I know there is a cap, but, can't you spend $1.00 if you just want L$285? Second, who out there has thousands of dollars for computers, hundreds of dollars per year for high speed internet access, but lacks ONE SINGULAR DOLLAR for L$285? Please. Finally, how are people joining SL without a valid credit card? Don't they still require one be on file even for the free account?



All I can say to this is that it's NO WONDER SL costs so much for paying customers! A note to EVERYONE paying tier: This is what the bandwidth portion of your bills is going towards.

Lets see...

My PC is always on
DSL is always on
I sleep 6 hours a night
Commute work about 10-11 hours a day..

So I could stay logged in SL while I am sleep and work and get $285L for nothing. Let me put an alt to work

No minimum, but there is a flat 30 cent surcharge, according to https://secondlife.com/currency/describe-transaction-fees.php . When you only buy $1 US worth, a quarter of your transaction cost is fee.

...not that that's much of a point once absolute figures are considered, mind you. It's only thirty cents. And I wouldn't think the minimum expenditure to make the transaction practical is $20 US. More like $5. The fee would be down around 5% of the total cost then.


Stigma. Whether it's rational is irrelevant. The idea of paying real money to get ahead has negative connotations in the minds of a non-negligible portion of the online game-playing community. Much of it comes from competitive games, where someone who pays real money to the company running the game for better or unique gear or ranking is viewed as purchasing undeserved victories over those who haven't. This point of view doesn't apply neatly to SL, but it does in a way. Also, as I said, whether it should hold is secondary to the fact that it does.

Plus there are those who are steadfast in the challenge of succeeding as much as possible within the self-imposed arena of not spending one single U.S. cent.


They use either a credit card or cell phone number to verify identity. If you go the phone option, no card information is required.

My first friend in SL was a power shopper who told me about GOM. She took me shopping for hair and outfits. I bought my first 5K linden the next day.

I think we need to recruit the power shoppers of SL to be first night mentors.

Just to be clear on a point here, I do not like camping 'chairs.' I'm just discussing the 'why.'



Many think, "Well, I don't have to pay to play my other games online, why should I have to pay to play this one?" It's a perception issue mostly. The majority of people on the net have not the slightest clue what it takes to run a system like SL. They think SL is sitting on someone's PC in an office somewhere. They don't see it as avoiding to pay a dollar, but just flatly avoiding to pay at all.



No, it's just not practical. I used $20 because it was a nice round figure.



It's not that they lack the money, but that they have other things to spend it on. Such as food, a girlfriend/boyfriend, children, etc.. Essentialy, they prioritze their spending and SL ranks below the point where they run out of cash.




You can use a cellphone to verify your account now. And pre-pay cellphones don't require a credit card to activiate.




A valid observation. The problem is the value that the premium membership offers. Personally, I'm in a basic membership even though I've already spent about $80 buying L$ in the month or so I've been playing. The reason is that, the increase in stipend is not that much more than what I'm buying, and I have no interest in buying land right now. So a basic membership with the felxibility to purchase L$ when I see fit is the better choice for me.

to stray OT a bit: What SL needs is a compelling reason to upgrade to Premium. I hate to say it, but I think denying basic members from entering Mature sims would create a tidal wave of upgrades. Never underestimate how fast pursestrings loosen when money is the key to unlocking sex. But this is best discussed in another thread.

I still play Sims Online, which costs more a month than the SL premium membership 512 sq m package. Many of my friends play Pogo, which has an annual fee. I don't understand why people expect to get something basic for free - let alone something as comprehensive as SL.



Probably another thread yes - but I agree with you 118% that there needs to be a good reason to upgrade to Premium as, frankly, there isn't much reason when you can pay a land baron directly to rent. LL might be getting the equivalent of the tier fee - but they are not getting the monthly fee.

Even something simple like restricting Basic accounts to 2 hours of play per 24 hours would be a good start - that would kill off many of the campers too. If you really do like the game, you'll be prepared to pay to play more - yet 2 hours a day is enough for the casual browser to explore and decide whether they like it or not.

Lewis

Well I can't speak for all campers, but we live on a fixed income and our entire entertainment budget goes for our internet access. Our homebrew computers get upgraded a part at a time every few years as something breaks down, often with a used part. Second Life is my husband's main source of socialization and interaction with other people, aside from being at the dialysis center three times a week for four hours a shot. I camp to accumulate the money to cover his membership and tier (and also save some Lindens aside toward a new RL computer from SL's own CorvusTech). And no, I am not ashamed or embarrassed to be camping, and no not everyone in SL can just afford to buy Lindens whenever they want.

Most people are on fixed incomes, it's just some are tighter than others.

As you can do everything on a free account, is it worth spending money on Premium and tier?

Whilst of course I can sympathise with your situation, if things were really tight for me I would be spending money on something a lot more important than tier fees in SL.

Lewis

I started to, but then I figured if you hadn't found it by now maybe a trip to the clinic could be in order.

I think you're right about where the attitude originates, and I totally concur with the second paragraph. More awareness of what SL is would greatly help.
I know a million people are going to scream "SL is a game for me so it's a game" at me, but it's not. I would describe it as a platform, a vehicle. This is includes being a platform for games. However, "it's only a game" excludes my uses for it, and others. Platform is an inclusive description.
I've posted it before, but from the front page of Second Life's site:

"What is Second Life?

Second Life is a 3-D virtual world entirely built and owned by its residents. Since opening to the public in 2003, it has grown explosively and today is inhabited by nearly 100,000 people from around the globe.

* From the moment you enter the World you’ll discover a vast digital continent, teeming with people, entertainment, experiences and opportunity. Once you’ve explored a bit, perhaps you’ll find a perfect parcel of land to build your house or business.

* You’ll also be surrounded by the Creations of your fellow residents. Because residents retain the rights to their digital creations, they can buy, sell and trade with other residents.

* The Marketplace currently supports millions of US dollars in monthly transactions. This commerce is handled with the in-world currency, the Linden dollar, which can be converted to US dollars at several thriving online currency exchanges."

Nothing about a game there. You just can't say you signed on for a game.
An educational/awareness campaign as you suggest Shaun could only do good things, and be great marketing at the same time.

As a matter of fact Lewis we do have a lot more important things than SL that require our money, thank you for your concern. That is why we use Lindens from camping for tier instead of dollars. He enjoys the game a great deal, I'm not so much into it.

Unfortunately I don't think the truth would get people signing up in the first place.

"From the moment you log in and land at the welcome area, you'll be lagged to death by blingtards showing off their unnecessarily flashy jewelery. Learn how to make money by sitting like a zombie for hours being paid to do nothing except sit still, and be amazed by the spinning blue signs dotted around the landscape. Enjoy the rich digital environment of rigged casinos which take all your money, or be paid to stand on a dance pad in a nightclub - but it doesn't matter which one you visit because they all play the same techno Shoutcast stream or Club 977. If the Goreans don't get you, the Furries will".

Lewis