Economy Meeting.

Canceled.

So... what do you hope to achieve, apart from trying to fix the market to suit your own needs rather than to benefit the community as a whole?

Leave the economy alone, it's quite capable of looking after itself. It doesn't need you or anyone else to "fix" it as it isn't broken. Just because it doesn't suit your particular narrow view doesn't mean it's wrong.

Lewis

I very much doubt you'll get (m)any residents showing up as those who deal with 5,000 USD in transactions every month are either not to keen on ousting themselves or too busy to care about a mini-land barron's meetings.

(a) how do you tell?
(b) I wouldn't bother pretending that I sell a lot of L$ just to attend anyway, as it's clear, based on the above, that you're not interested in the meeting being an actual discussion of the issue, just a "how can we keep making money?" meeting. And I don't care if you make money or not.

i REALLY dont care. But many of them know that this meeting must be done.

If my intend was this, i ld never post here and would IM to all L$ barons in the game, and make decissions togather and you ld never know what is happening.
But this meeting's result will be open to the forum.

Must be? The only "problem" with the economy is that it doesn't particularly benefit big spenders to the detriment of the smaller people. All the fixes I've seen suggested would make the rich richer, the poor poorer and form a definite financial class system. I think that would kill SL for about 95% of it's population.

I'm with the near silent L&E forum majority that know and understand such a meeting is pointless when given the fact the economy is fine.

BTW: What's an Archangle?

Have you ever check auction page in these days? 65K mature(no water) swims were going for 1300 usd 4-5 months ago. Now they are almost not selling. Have you ever think why?
This is a loss for LL. And loss for LL is loss for SL population. But i dont expect you to see this.

... and when you suggest something that benefits the majority, smaller 'investors' you just get abused and called a communist for daring to suggest something that may actually benefit people instead of lining the pockets even thicker of a tiny % of the playerbase.

Yet suggesting the opposite - as the OP did - is perfectly acceptable, and all "part of the way SL is meant to be played" because of LL's marketing lie of 'make thousands a year playing SL", to the detriment of the overall quality of experience in-world.

I would assume that the OP is a big money player who cashes out over $5000 of L$ a month - wouldn't it be ironic if he had to exclude himself from his own meeting

Lewis

To be honest, I'd rather be called a communist than to be compared to the so-called "honest capitalists" of SL.
... because SL is a game, a Monopoly-like MMORPG if you like.

I very much doubt I'd care. However, I do think people should start ARing these threads. They are a fairly obvious attempt to derail the game for a lot of people.. "Fix the Economy!", "Do away with the stipend!"... this is abusive behaviour towards those who rely on what SL gives them.

That's an easy one. They aren't selling because there's no market for them, the land market is swamped with too much available, all overpriced, a lot of crap builds, and I expect a big crash very soon meaning lots of people who have built up an empire in SL trading virtual stuff will disappear (either through losing too much money or no longer making enough), leaving the door wide open for a new bundle of people to come in and do something productive in SL with what's available, building the rich content that we all want instead of self-serving interests. It's not the tier that cripples me and prevents me from buying more land, it's the cost of the land in the first place. That means I can't expand my presence in game and therefore provide an even better quality experience for those that drop by my property. I have great plans but a small pocket. I can guarantee you that there are thousands just like me in SL.



I think that blanket statement has just been proven completely wrong, don't you? Many of us understand a lot more than certain individuals give us credit for - we just choose to invest our time, money and effort into benefitting others rather than ourselves.

Lewis

You are completely blind.You are FAR AWAY to understand what i mean. Your posts are only making unnecessary crowds on the forums. When i see one of your posts i am being have to explain it like explaining to a primary school child or i am just ignoring. I am usually ignoring but this time i will explain:

$1000 costs more than L$310000 for a land baron.
=L$4850 cost per 1024 sqm. plus tier. So land barons are not bidding to the auctions anymore. You are talking about individual land buyers. HOW MANY OF SL population can buy a whole sim? Land barons were buying whole sims and reselling them FOR SMALL PROFITS. But it is not profitable anymore because of L$ value. OMG how cant you see this? If it is not profitable how do you think SIMS will reach to the RESIDENTS as small parcels?
You are keeping to tell "OVERPRICED LANDS, GREEDY LAND BARONS", if your math is not good please take a calculator and calculate how much they are making profit for how much work.

Could such a thing even exist?



Interesting thought... looking at the "Big Six" it could easily be argued that such 'economy fixing' is:

1) Intolerant - against those who cannot afford to spend ridiculous amounts of money each month in a game.

2) Harrassment - repeated calls for the same thing and an obvious derision against those whose gameplay is so delicately balanced that they actually do need such small amounts to keep going.

3) Assault - the whole 'economy fixing' could easily be classed as an assault on smaller players within the game - it's not just weapons that are used in this way, economic sanctions against a country anyone?

6) Disturbing the peace - look at the uproar such threads keep causing....

Four out of six ToS violations.... hmmmm shall I hit the button or not?

Lewis

I answer this part in the simplest way, by hitting that nice red triangle to the left of your post as it is a personal attack.



Your point being? Simple fact is that we do not need Land Barons! There is more than enough land available on the mainland, and there is absolutely no reason why LL can't handle all land sales themselves. If I wanted half a sim for a project, I'd ask my friends if anyone was interested in taking some of the other half of the sim, and work together - that's not being a land baron, that's just doing the necessary.




That isn't my problem - if the profit isn't worthwhile to them, don't bother to do it. Nobody is making you buy more land and put in 'all the effort' to slice it up. I am quite sure that I could do as good a job if not better than many of the 'land sellers' in terraforming and slicing up land, if I had an opportunity to do so.

Simple conclusion, if all you're doing in SL is making a profit and not having any fun, you aren't needed or particularly welcome.

Lewis

idc


If people dont need them, they dont buy from them, people are buying from them this shows me they need them.

So why i am selling daily over 100K land?

LL has more important things to ndo.

All people dont have "sim buyer friends" . MOST of people are buying 1024 sqms, sure you can find 63 friends to buy a whole sim.




I build, i script, i make textures, i make land business all of them are fun for me. I couldnt have fun if i dont produce.

So you want a meeting with the tiny minority of people who want to rake in the money of the SL population? And you honestly believe that it would be applauded if posted this on the L&E boards? It's even funny you mention big L$ amount buyers. Who on earth is ever going to buy over 5000US$ a month of L$? What would be the point in that? There is no reason to buy in L$ massively. Whomever has massive amounts of L$ does so because a lot of people have paid small amounts to them.

You also seem to think the only stakeholders in this are those who have massive amounts of L$. That's what, 0.1% of the SL population? Who do you think LL would rather lose, them or the other 99.9%?

What are you talking about? What does "LL would rather lose" etc mean? Did i suggest anything to LL to do? This meeting is mainly about L$ sell strategies, and ofcourse i will invite the top sellers.

It's called market manipulation, plain and simple.

Think about this for a moment if you can.

Recently someone dumped a huge amount of L$ on the market at L$300/$1, which was below the current rate by about 5 points - the money sellers cried because someone had intentionally moved the market to suit their own needs.

Now... let's say your "strategy" is short term loss = long term gain, and by your little group putting all their money on at L$290 when the rate is L$295, in an attempt to move the market the other way. Tell me, how is that acceptable but someone moving it the other way is not?

Lewis

I am not sue about the strategy yet, the meeting is not started yet.

As I understand it, your strategy is to reduce the exchange rate from its current value down towards the mythical L$250 value that means that you and the other sellers make more money for no more effort, and the 99.9% of the population remaining lose out.

So you aren't admitting to intending to manipulating the market for your own personal gains? It's interesting that whenever someone states that there is a problem with something and they propose a plan to "fix" it that the result is always an increased personal gain?

Lewis

Ofcourse L$ sellers will care their profit?!?!?! What is wrong with it? If you think buyers also should care about their profit, ask LL to be able to set buy rates while buying L$.
For example: "buy 15000L$ at rate 315L$/usd".If one sells at that rate, they can buy if not they wait. This is the way of defending buyers' rights. And i apraciate it if LL does something like this.

You announce that you'll organise a meeting on which you only want to see the top L$ sellers (ok you ask for top buyers too but every sane person knows there will be none). You don't post an agenda or what it'll be about. Yet you seem to imply that this meeting will be of any value to the economy. I'm terribly sorry for you but the point is easy: The top L$ sellers are NOT the economy. The mass of L$ spenders are. Sure enough the top L$ could've given the L$ a better trend weeks ago but I sincerely doubt your meeting is going to help as there's no reason to believe they'll have the insight any time soon if they haven't had it upto now. If they can't come to that conclusion on these boards they won't come to the conclusion in the scope of your discussion either.

The biggest problem is that a lot of big sellers are too self-centred to realise that the answers are to be found by talking to the consumerbase. None of the discussions you'll have will lead to much as there's a conflict of intrest anyway. There are still enough sellers who make a nice profit with a rate of 300L$ and they've little reason to help out those who are struggling.

The L$ will correct itself eventually when it becomes blatantly obvious that the value of the L$ has been negatively influenced because the sellers are pushing it lower without proper cause.

You seriously don't know what's wrong with it?

Profit makes people greedy. They want more. It's like a drug. They'll do anything to get their 'next fix' and don't care what they have to do or who they have to hurt to get it.

Then consider the victims - the vast majority of the SL population who are here just to have a little fun, build something, make a few L$ to support their next purchase, and get away from the troubles of reality. Unfortunately, the economists bring the worst of reality into SL.

What should you do if you see an economist lying in the middle of the road, half dead?

Reverse and finish the job off.

Lewis

Actually, there's some very sound reasons why LL don't handle land sales themselves.

By auctioning off the sim to land barons, LL immediately offset the price of the server hardware, with no risk to themselves if the land doesn't subsequently sell to maximum occupancy. LL get full income for a sim-worth of tier from the moment that a land baron takes ownership. If LL sold the land themselves, then they wouldn't reach full earning potential on the sim until the day that *every* parcel had sold - which could be months down the line. Therefore, handing off sims to land barons for reselling is a pretty shrewd financial move by LL.

That said, I totally agree that the land market is heading for a very painful "correction" in coming weeks, especially once the shockwaves of dwellveloper incentive loss hit.

(Whu... I just agreed with Lewis Nerd? Blimey!)