More (creative) thoughts about stipends

My point in bringing up the I.R.S. is that if you make money at something, you are a professional at it. (Not winning money; earning money, although some people are professional gamblers.)

The IRS is going to look upon profits made from SL in the same way. So anyone who makes profits from SL is not a hobbyist, or running a hobby, but a professional running a business.

"Hobbiests" whose hobby "includes a making money aspect," and who do, in fact, make money - are not, by legal definition, hobbiests. That "aspect" is key to the definition.

Similarly in sports - once you take money for your sport, as I understand it, you are now a "professional" and no longer an "amateur" qualified to participate in amateur-standing contests.

You may say you want to talk about it in social terms, but what I think you're really doing is deciding for yourself who you think is "professional" and who is "amateur" or a "hobbiest."

Without any basis for defining professional (whether by earning money or some other agreed-upon definition), your distinction amounts to nothing more than your personal opinion about various people.

As to this point:

"my point was basically that professionals raising prices for their content or service would not open the door to competition from amateurs. people seek the two for different reasons and with different values. they are not part of the same market."

Again - how do you determine which of the content or service providers are professional and which aren't? You haven't, because it can't be done.

The populace - unlike yourself, apparently - hasn't necessarily formed an opinion about which residents are professionals providing content for sale and which are amateurs providing content for sale, and they have no list from you to consult that will tell them which are which. They look at the content and buy what they like.

Thus they can't possibly seek out professionals versus amateurs, since no such distinction exists within SL as yet.

You say that "people seek the two for different reasons and different values."

Since people can't know who is supposed to be professional and who is supposedly amateur, what different reasons could these possibly be? A skin is a skin. How is the buyer supposed to know who they are supposed to purchase from? And what would be the different values? Either the skin looks good and appeals, or it doesn't.

I think maybe you are talking about snobbery, really. Buying an outfit, maybe, because the label on it is considered chic among your forum and in-game circles.

What we are dealing with in SL is content or service providers, period. Individuals who stand or fall on their own reputations and abilities.

As it already stands, some charge more than others. (And some don't charge at all.) Among them are those you consider "professional." But they are already competing with those you wouldn't consider "professional," some of whom doubtless charge more than the ones you consider professional do.

They all quite literally are part of the same market, and they don't wear tags saying, "Jauani-Certified Professional" or "Jauani-Certified Amateur."

Let's say a portion of those raise their prices (perhaps even, by some stroke of serendipity, the very ones you happen to consider professional). A broader range of prices to select from would open to door to more competition, not less, assuming the ones raising their prices raised them enough to be higher than everyone else.

You also say:

"these differences are very much the reason why people who approach sl as professional don't care about basic account stipends or even premium account stipends in terms of how it affects their client base."

Now you seem to be defining professional as those people who believe that no adjustment to stipends on either premium or basic accounts will have any affect on their customer base or on their sales, or at least don't care if they do.

Just a guess here - are you, possibly, defining "professional" as "people with clients who don't use their stipends to make purchases?" Or, "people with rich clients" maybe? Or even, "people who don't care if their customer base declines"?

You also say:

"People who rely solely on stipends do not benefit the professional class in SL at all. hobbiests on the other hand, might, if their hobby includes a making L$ aspect."

As I stated before, if their hobby makes them money, it is no longer a hobby.

More importantly, how can you say that people who rely solely on stipends do not benefit the professional class (as you define it and believe it to exist) at all?

You seem to be saying that residents who buy from the people you consider professional are not people who would actually use their stipends.

Just another guess - are you defining "professional" as "those people who charge the most?" Along with, of course, those with wealthy clients?

I think that is what you are doing. Your definition of professional seems to entirely revolve around high prices and wealth, and the notion that stipends are useless peanuts, and the customers who rely on and use them are expendable and worthless to any "professional".

And somehow - despite any definition - we are supposed to be able to label content creators as "professional" or "amateur." And the "professional" ones will be completely unaffected by marketplace economy and fluctuations.

Well, I guess that could be true if they are only selling to their friends within their own circle.

coco

Agreed, they should shut it down and fast. Or, if it is truly as many posters have said, 'It's just so I can pay tier and have a bit left over' set trade caps based on tier..give them a cap that lets them earn enough to pay tier plus say 10% for the little left over' part...get the damn currency speculators out of the market.

This wouldn't hurt any of the 'But I use the lindex to pay tier and have a bit left over' posters, wouldn't hurt the buyers since there would still be lindens....but the ubercapitalists cashing out and those doing rapid turnovers right up to the current bogus limits day-trading, the ones who are mucking things up, would be unable to do that.

How can they set a market rate? (while there are two other currency exchange services on the web, as well as eBay)

What research? You've defined and redefined the word professional a half-dozen ways, with infinite numbers of caveats, and have obfusticated it to the point it meaningless, then claim victory? Coconut is far closer to right than you are.

BTW, playing the lotto and other games of chance (aka, gambling) can be a profession (risky at best, insane at worst). Go to vegas sometime and take a look at how the hotels treat the high-rollers, the PROFESSIONAL gamblers.

coconut, i made a lot of money collecting comics. that didn't make it a profession. i have absolutely no idea how being a professional and paying taxes are connected. that is really a crazy stretch and an exceptionally long post to argue that everyone is a professional. clearly everyone is not a professional and people who rely on stipend recipients as their consumer base really do not have a high enough calibre of quality (yet). professionals cater to customers who are willing to buy L$ and spend USD for their services and content. this is because to the professional the L$ is a proxy for the USD and because to their customers their content has real value.

the other day my friend complained to me about a bum picking tin cans out of his garbage. i told him that that is a very derogatory way to refer to an aluminun recycling professional.

anyway, coco, stop reading further than my comments. i'm not "seeming to say" anything. i'm saying what i'm saying. don't go further then that or you'll end up losing a boxing match to your shadow. also if you make posts with 50 consecutive questions, it exceeds my A.D.D threshold and you get more superficial responses like this.

half dozen is an exageration. i'm truly saddened by your objection to allow for complexity in meaning. it will make it impossible for me to discuss anything with you besides counting apples.



there is a big difference between scratch lotteries and poker and you know it! lottery scratchers lack skill and conviction and so they passively pick numbers to do the work for them while poker players savy are proactive and make their cards work for them.

so i understand what you are saying, maklin, is that coco is a lottery scratcher while aimee weber is a card shark. correct?

I do think I am having a boxing match with a shadow.

Now you seem to be defining professional as perhaps something having to do with the "learned" professions. But I can tell you that if you don't declare your income from comic collecting (which many people do as a business, not just you, and professionally), the I.R.S. will look askance on it if they find out.

I never argued that everyone is a professional. I attempted to define "professional" as someone who makes an income at what he does, though I personally tend to think of professionalism as more of an attitude than something dependant upon a paycheck.

"professionals cater to customers who are willing to buy L$ and spend USD for their services and content. this is because professionals to the professional the L$ is a proxy for the USD."

Where does this come from? I don't screen my customers to determine whether they bought their Lindens or saved up their stipends for purchases from me. Do you?

"and people who rely on stipend recipients as their consumer base really do not have a high enough calibre of quality (yet)."

We are all stipend recipients, except new basics. We pretty much all use our stipends, in addition to any Lindens we may buy, to make purchases. There is no consumer base within SL who doesn't use stipends and perhaps purchased Lindens to make purchases (unless they buy the item with dollars directly from a third-party website).

To assume that stipend reduction or elimination would affect only people who create low-quality goods is rather overly-optimisitic, I think.

coco

No, but you are saying I lack skill and conviction, among other things.

The more you say these types of things about others, the less people will think of you.

coco

nobody screens. your missing the point. the demographic of consumers is a natural byproduct of the cost of services. how many weeks worth of stipends does yours or my custom build cost? how many centuries worth of stipends does an electric sheep build cost?

pedantic, ever?

it's not optimistic. it's reality. particularly now that land no longer sucks L$ out of the economy. common sense should tell us that if items are paid for with stipend money that means that the content creator is getting hosed when they take that money to the lindex.

what people? i don't even exist.

Words mean things, and there are accepted definitions of them, as Cocoanut quoted you in a couple posts back. You treat these as elastic, dropping the parts that contradict your arguement and stretching the parts that even marginally support you to the breaking point. And I agree, it is impossible to discuss this further with you...to me, words have meaning and that meaning facilitates communication that is understood by both sides. To you, words mean whatever bolsters Jauani Wu's point at the moment and to hell with consistency. There is no semantic content to what you say, its reduced to meaninglessness by your relativism of what words mean.

To use your apple analogy, someone shows me an apple, its ALWAYS going to be an apple...to you its an apple/peach/watermellon/pear...whatever you perceive as bolstering your argument at the moment.




No, both rely on luck....you can be the best poker player on the planet and YOU CAN STILL LOSE. There is a chance element involved.



No, you're being an insulting smarta** again, twisting words to mean what you want and insult folks, as Coco also noted in an earlier post. BTW, who is this Aimee you seem to set above the rest of us mere mortal builders and coders? (seriously, and with no offense to Aimee, I've heard the name in passing but NO idea what kind of things she makes ingame or why you are using her as a model).

i'm very perplexed maklin. instead of engaging the point you focus on my definition of professional. then instead of offering your own definition of the word, you discuss fruits.



there is chance in everything though. there is a chance a top surgeon will kill a patient. there is a chance i'll trip and fall walking down the road. a professional has the skills to positively affect chance right? a lottery scratcher just isn't there yet.




i'm not trying to insult cocoa. there is nothing wrong with being a hobbiest. and there is nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade.

here is a cultural difference between hobbiests and professionals:

hobbiest: what do you think of my build?
friend: it's awesome! i really like how you linked the sphere to the cube!
hobbiest: hugs!!!! yours is awesome too!

professional: can you crit my build?
friend: it has seams. i give it an F---. you fail. three times.
professional: thanks! hugs!!!

Thank you, I've given up dealing with Jauani and really wasn't expecting an answer! And nice work, I've been to Midnight City long ago, very nice place.

thanks! hugs!!!

How come I can't find the Maklin post that has those quotes just above in it?

Aimee, I clicked on that link. Very, VERY nice portfolio!

coco

Wow, you're the creator of Midnight City? I've been to that place on a few occasions while visiting my two favorite DJs (Nala and Trin... mainly Nala... Sorry Trin XD), and it seems more impressive every time I see it. Especially with the lighting and shadow texturing. That place probably cost you a small fortune in texture upload fees!
By the way, any plans to replace the street and other lights with actual lighting, or it the 6 light limit still too much of a problem for that? (I imagine you'll be able to look down the street, and a few yards ahead of you some of the street lights will be off...)

Huh. Not sure why but it looks like he deleted his comment.


A major redesign is in the works, though it keeps getting backburnered by contract projects. I don't think having the lights dissapear further down the street would be a bad effect. Thanks for the kind words

Always have loved flying (mind putfile can be a bit slow at times) through the streets of Midnight City, and you're a tremendously sweet person for allowing us to hon. Can not wait to see what you've got waiting post-projects, I'm sure it'll be jaw-droppingly grand! ^.^ Mmmmm-baked textures and local-lighting... ^.^;

By the way, what's a baked texture?

AWEEEEE <3 Thank you!

Rasah, Texture baking is essentially a way to make up for shortcomings in Second Life's lighting and shadow systems by drawing them directly into the textures themselves. Here is an example:



Notice how the stools and the table cast shadows from multiple light sources. Those shadows are drawn right on the ground. The benefit is a scene far prettier than could be achieved with Second Life's lighting system alone. The down side is, if you move a stool, the shadow stays put

Oh, ok. Like the textured lighting and shadows that Unreal Tournament and many older games used. I just never heard of it being called "baked texture" before.

Hope that once SL fully implements their lighting with vertex and shadows that all of the game will look like that. Although it'd be funny to see your sims then, since there'll be one static texture shadow, and one moving projected shadow.... Ugh... Lots more texture uploading fees at that point