More (creative) thoughts about stipends

sigh honestly people need to let this die its a fruitless argument that both sides think they know better

so its a case of agreeing to disagree and move on because its not solvable nor is it particulary well good for moral to keep telling players who pay to play regardless of their views that they are collecting welfare or stuff

this stuff is generating hatred lots and lots of it

Two ways to increase demand. One, increase people wanting to spend money. As you and others on this forum are against it, and since there are so many people who see using Lindex as a taboo, that simply won't work (no matter how good of an object I make, if you and others don't want to buy off of Lindex to be able to afford to pay for it, it won't matter).
Two, decrease the amount of $L going around. At that point your choices are to, again, not buy since you can't afford it, or to go to Lindex.

And sorry, LindenLabs sets the prices. Sellers set their prices to reflect the costs they have to pay to LL. If they set their prices just high enough to be able to pay LL (zero profit), and people don't buy, they leave and take their content and land with them (yes, even the land people who don't want to go premium end up renting on). Land decreases means places to hang out and things to do decreases. As I said, either leave the game because stippends (or SOMETHING) gets cut, or leave the game because content, land, and entertainment gets cut. Either way, I guess you'll have to leave.

LL doesn't set the price on how much a Dominus Shadow costs. The provider does. Content will never disappear- there are too many like myself who create for fun and see profits in lindens. If a clothing store disappears because the owner over charges? Oh well. Businesses fail. Especially virtual ones.

I agree that somthing needs to be done and thoughs who shun us for maken sl into a h obbie that pays and trying to keep it worth that time we spend on it are follishly trying to put them selves above us for no reason but your replys here are a bit harsh, even though thte fact remains im a content creator i make a great deal on my content because i bite my nails every day and dont raise my prices but i will when the sell order hit 350 and when i do i feel many other will too, eventually we end up with skins being 10k average to good clothing no less then 1k and your meger stipends there still only 500 a week hope by that point LL does somthing for us

As opposed to you thinking we owe you more money? No, I'm not putting msyelf above you, I'm pushing to keep me and those like me from being punished so you can have more.

I hope people who can't see the side of people who don't care about the lindex fail and quit. 100L is 100L. Period.

I'm a content creator too, and I'll gladly undercut your products to make a profit- one I measure only in lindens.

No, its not a requirement of the game. A part of it, perhaps, but a part I rather strenouously avoid. I have no interest in cashing out of SL and I do not spend RL $ for VR items (otehr than one time). When I can take things from SL to RL, THEN I will consider using RL $.

As an invenstment vehicle, I can and do that RL, not VR with an outfit like LL...hell, they can barely release a patch in ten that is acceptable...why would I trust them with my RL money?

I keep game money in game and RL money in RL. Much safer and easier to track. That way, my 'fun' doesn't become tainted with 'I must make money'...I get enough of that RL, I want my game to be all game and not another financial worry.

No one is trying to put themselves above you, Parsalin, spare us the martyrdom.

Its just that some of us separate our game (aka, relaxation, amusement) from the moneygrubbing we do 8-10 hours a day in the Real World. I invest RL, I get enough of monitoring rates and such there...WHAT POSSIBLE INCENTIVE would I have for wanting to repeat that ingame (biting my nails. as you put it, TWICE...once in RL and again in VR)? For many of us, this is a game - g...a...m....e. I have no intention of ever spending RL cash on it beyond premium fees, not will I cash out on the lindex.

And as far as raising your prices...great! Every time the big content creators do, they hand over a bit of market to us hobbiest players who DON'T raise rates. While my no-name items may not look attractive against the big names at the current rate...but when you increase and I don't? And I won't....this is strictly FOR FUN for me...I get a blast out of seeing my items used, and am not in it to cash out. So you and the other big names that are cashing out charge 10K for good clothing to keep the US $ rolling in, well, some hobby player will see that and go 'Hrm, I do that' and make somethiing for 1000...and you know what? He/she/it will sell while yours won't. So price yourself right out of the market!

Every time a content creator that is cashing out threatens to raise prices if they don't get their way on exchange rates, they are just making entry easier for competition who are not cashing out and only use their currency ingame.

I have to agree, Jonas. And what the content providers who are using SL for RL $ need to realize is, increasing prices just opens the door and lowers the entry bar for folks that are pure hobbiests to come in and compete. I am not cashing out....and if content providers start trying to raise prices, you can bet someone who ISN'T using it for RL $ but rather using it as an RPG or social environment WILLl start making generics of the more popular items and greatly reduced prices. And, they will sell.

They are just slitting their own throats if they raise prices.

Sing it brother. You summed up what I have been trying to get across for a while now. The upper end content providers think they are irreplacable. They go away and someone who plays SL as a game, not as a source of income WILL start making and selling items at a resonable price.

The man/woman/it that makes the Dominus Shadow could leave SL today and someone else would most likely make something similar (if they haven't already and folks just haven't heard of it yet). No one, not casual player, not content mogul, not land baron, is irreplacable to SL.

Yeah, I know not everyone is hurting. Big businesses and land owners I think are for the most part ok. Smaller middle-class ones that cater to small communities are where I've been hearing probems with. And yeah, these guys have just been pissing me off a bit too much. I should cut down a bit. Can't really win an argument with some people.

(Couldn't resist) The lowest end cheapscates who can't be bothered to spend one dollar on Lindex think they are irreplaceable.

Nope, no one in SL is irreplacable, but get rid of the buyers all and you have no market, regardless of how good your items are.

And now, a curse - May the value of lindens continue to fall and your investment go along with it.

Similarly, get rid of the content providers, and you'll be stuck with a bunch of tallentless freebs in a small sand box

And may the prices of your most cherished wishes skyrocket well beyond the means of you and your mother (had to get that in there somehow).

btw, you're a fur, right? Go ask Luskwood what they think about the decline of $L or the screwing of the market.

hobbiests can't compete with professionals. that's ridiculous. it's a totally different market.

people who want good quality and service and no headaches and to save time go to professionals.

people who want good enough, unreliable service, and to spend a lot of time crying on the forum about prim baby scams go to hobbiests.

Entertainment (and services) already got cut. They took a big hit, first with the loss of event stipends, and recently with the end of dwell.

I'm still waiting to see if they are going to be successful at charging for entry. I'll be surprised if they are. Fewer entertainment places means less reason to have skins, clothes, hair, etc.

coco

P.S. Jauani, that's nonsense.

how so?

Yup. Sad, isn't it. One person can't cover the cost of their land, many others suffer.

Well first off, there is no definition. What is a hobbiest in SL? What is a professional in SL? How do you determine that difference?

coco

Cutting those things, Rasah, may have deleterious effects on the quality of content and entertainment in SL.

Similarly, cutting stipends could have a deleterious effect on the number of purchases made.

coco

You forgot "sinking the economy which cuts into their profits." doesn't matter, though, since they can just raise their prices to cover their costs, and everyone else can go somewhere else.

hobbiests do not have a financial incentive and thus can be unreliable. because they don't take their endeavor more seriously, they tend to have lower quality or service and improve slower.

professionals take their work in sl very seriously because the internet is indeed serious business (big business!) and reliably deliver quality content. they are firmly immersed in their pursuit and thus they are very critical of their work and how to improve.

for example - you are a hobbiest. aimee weber is a professional.

there is nothing wrong with being one or the other. the hobbiest has fun with no stress. the professional often has stress but makes money.

Some of the best things in SL are free. Friend of mine did an awesome set of daleks that fight each other (and anyone that shoots at them). Free. Most expensive item he carries is a furry bot AV that sells at a about a third of what the competition charges (about same as a Lusk AV)...and doesn't look like a musclebound pinhead like the more expensive competion. He gives his multicategory vendor system away...I've seen similar for 500-1K each. Not all the decent builders and coders are 'content creators'. Some of them just do it for fun. There will always be those around.

And nice curse!

Lusk -- Been there a few times, didn't care for it (not big on the woodland / outdor theme most furs are head over heels for...didn't like the forest for that reason either...am more a city cat). I have a luskwood AV though, can't fault their builds, good work. In reality, they do NOT need Lusk to sell their AV's, they are in every furry mall, so if the place goes away, I will feel sorry for their loss, but its not a direct impact on me. They honestly could make more if they closed the build and just sold the AV's in stores.

I heard Eltee a while back...has a theory about day traders and market manipulators who have it in for LL causing all this I believe it was, wasn't listening closely. He was telling a couple folks about it a week or two ago, I think. He may very well be right. on both counts. don't know.

I've had far worse service from many of the so-called professionals (IM's not answered, rude IM's, items that didn't work as advertized, promised upgrades not delivered, attempts to shake me down for more L$ for promised upgrades) than I ever have from the smalltimers I have bought from or commissioned items from. They get big, they get arrogant becauuse they DON"T CARE if they lose a few customers...they're set...and they can count on folks like you that believe bigger = better.

The smalltimer needs customers and tends to have a more personal touch...they NEED and WANT my business...I'm not customer 200K to them. Just like I get better service in the local businesses in town than I do at a Wal-Mart superstore. The little guys need me, the big guys don't.

Well, I *am* free, but that's off topic. Thanks for the compliment though. Most of the cool stuff I made was free, too



I preffer cities myself. And yeah, I saw your lion when you logged in o.o





I'll feel sorry for the thousands of USD they have invested in keeping what is the first furry hangout alive ever. They still haven't paid their debt back.




I heard that too. I'm still too skeptical of it though, since I haven't noticed the trading (yes, ME not seeing it doesn't mean it's so), and I still don't see how something THAT expensive could benefit anyone. But oh well.

Now, that's an interesting definition.

And a nasty insult rolled up into it, too! My goodness, Jauani, you just don't miss a trick, do you?

"Hobbyists do not have a financial incentive and thus are unreliable."

Now that's interesting. I assume your life view is that no one is reliable unless they are in need of financial reward. Patently untrue, of course. I know lots of very professional and reliable volunteers.

But - going with your definition - the level of one's professionalism must then be fairly directly proportional to their need for income from that particular source. If that were the case, anyone who already has made a mint - such as a corporation CEO - can't possibly be professional.

"because they don't take their endeavor more seriously, they tend to have lower quality or service and improve slower."

Again, this is predicated on the faulty notion that if they don't care as much about the money as you think they should, they also can't take the work seriously, or be reliable and professional in their work performance.

"they are firmly immersed in their pursuit and thus they are very critical of their work and how to improve."

Again, interesting. Apparently one cannot be fully immersed in their pursuit, self-critical, or intent on continual improvement, unless one is in need of monetary compensation? And again, untrue. Some of the most fully immersed and engaged artists, for example, don't receive compensation for some time, if ever in their lifetime.

Now, I agree that if a person is financially strapped irl, that is a pretty good motivation to work hard and become good at something. But it is certainly not a requirement for professionalism in anything.

coco