Newbie protection: Private-island sub-leased "starter plots" targetted at Newbies.
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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05-09-2005 06:50
From: Kismet Karuna Requiring you to be on that land for any length of time is taking advantage, period. Now we start to see just how different land leases and land sales are.  NO - the requirement to be in the apartment for 7% of your game time was in a FREE APARTMENT - not in the group land communities of Meins and Andromeda - and that fact was not made clear at the start. coco |
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Pham Neutra
Registered User
Join date: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 478
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05-09-2005 07:56
From: Lindar Lehane So its not wrong for Anshe to disobey the Lindens, because its convenient and to her advantage, and they haven't given her an alternative quickly enough?
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You're starting down a dangerous road with this "justifying rule breaking by expedience" argument, Pham. An argument which in RL brings many to a sad end, and to society's opprobrium... wouldn't it be a nice world, where people would take their time to listen and try to digest their opponents arguments, even if they disaggree? Lindar, believe me, i am a very boring, law-abiding, in this regard more or less conservative citizen of Germany in RL and equally boring, law-abiding, conservative resident of SL. everything (well, most ) of your accusations against my position would be justified if i had not said "if the lindens would see this different, ...". but i did! i just don't share your opinion that there is a clear and unambigous position or "ruling" from LLs side on this issue. and if you take this opinion of mine into account (that there is NO clear statement from LL) it may be a little bit harder to christen me an amoral villain or kind of antisocial element  it is a "legal" and quite effective rethoric tactic to ignore some of the opponents arguments and focus on some others that deem easiest to attack. but i don't think its fair to overlook a part of the argumentation chain that is essential to the evaluation of the end result - even if you might disaggree with the assessment. |
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Lindar Lehane
registered user
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 272
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05-09-2005 08:06
From: Anshe Chung Lindar, thanks for making it clear that in fact all your crusade here is just about harming my business and my reputation. Whoever you are, or whoever's alt you are: reading your recent posts nobody can miss what you are actually up to.
I will certainly continue listing my sales as sales. After the user interface change, which was not driven by my use of the sales listing but by the fear that less trustworthy people could use the same feature in a negative way, I will follow Robin Linden's advice and continue advertising my sales on the forums, on websites and via in game advertising networks.
My Starter Land plots have become very popular. Without even starting to advertise them yet, there are many happy residents in Ellies Island already. You can cry "foul" and "bad" as much you want: the newbies are not as stupid as you think they are. They are able to understand what one good deal is and are too intelligent to fall for your negative propaganda. I prepared (as some of you probably expected) a substantial final reply to this post. After much soul-searching I have decided to leave it on my hard drive as too harsh, and not sufficiently free of ego. All I suggest is that the more perceptive of you examine Anshe's post really closely. All the answers are there, unconsciously, but to the observant, nothing is any longer in doubt. This her posting is the heart of it. I'll let it speak for itself, and try hard to say no more. |
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Lindar Lehane
registered user
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 272
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05-09-2005 08:28
I'm sorry Pham, I don't need to go on.
Anshe has given me all the answers I wanted, and more.
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Jake Reitveld
Emperor of Second Life
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,690
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05-09-2005 08:57
I gotta agree with Anshe on this one. This sure does seem like Anshe Bashing. While there is some logic in advising new players (avoiding the utterly condescending "newbie" that there are beneifts from getting a premuim account and getting first land. I donlt see how those are lost if a person with a basic account simply rents from Anshe? I don't think it falls on you to be a private Attonrey General and Write letters to Anshe regarding her perveiced business practices. A much better approach would be to fairly set forth the advantages and disadvantages of buying Anshe land as opposed to linden land. That way you would have all the information necessary to make this thread useful, instead of an anti-Anshe diatribe. As it is, is sort of comes off, intentionally or not, as sour grapes against Anshe Chung. |
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Lindar Lehane
registered user
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 272
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05-09-2005 09:30
I'm sorry Jake, didn't I make myself clear ? I have no need to debate further. I'd better not even listen, I guess, in case I weaken and let people goad me into saying some very, very harsh stuff. I shall not check back for a week or three, so demonize or sanctify away as best pleases you. I shall not object, or interrupt, or even know. I spoke up, did my duty, and exercised restraint when it ended by only pointing to the answer I was finally given. If its too subtle for you, tough. I'm gone.
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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05-09-2005 09:35
From: Jake Reitveld I gotta agree with Anshe on this one. This sure does seem like Anshe Bashing. While there is some logic in advising new players (avoiding the utterly condescending "newbie" that there are beneifts from getting a premuim account and getting first land. I donlt see how those are lost if a person with a basic account simply rents from Anshe? I don't think it falls on you to be a private Attonrey General and Write letters to Anshe regarding her perveiced business practices. A much better approach would be to fairly set forth the advantages and disadvantages of buying Anshe land as opposed to linden land. That way you would have all the information necessary to make this thread useful, instead of an anti-Anshe diatribe. As it is, is sort of comes off, intentionally or not, as sour grapes against Anshe Chung. If they are 'renting' from Anshe, as you put it, it should not be listed in the land for sale list. You are asking Lindar to list the pros and cons of buying Anshe land instead of LL land. The point is, Lindar and myself also, do not agree that ansheland is a sale, so how can he do that? In a recent poll conducted by Anshe, the voting was approximately as follows - Ansheland is renting, LL land is selling 50% Both are sales 20% Both are rental 30% Now the last one is a bit of a red herring really. If you believe that Linden land is not a sale, then you will of course believe Ansheland is not a sale. The same people will argue that a tree in SL is not a tree and so is not very useful. Importantly, of those who believe LL land is a sale, only 28% agree ansheland is too. Now when you consider those stats, along with the 'freshness' of this discussion, you have to admit it's hardly a good move to target newbies, whether you agree or disagree with Anshe. |
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
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05-09-2005 09:42
From: someone If they are 'renting' from Anshe, as you put it, it should not be listed in the land for sale list. You are asking Lindar to list the pros and cons of buying Anshe land instead of LL land. The point is, Lindar and myself also, do not agree that ansheland is a sale, so how can he do that? What is a "deed as long as you like," Hiro?
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Jake Reitveld
Emperor of Second Life
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,690
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05-09-2005 09:45
I neither demonize or sanctify. My point is that there is nothing worng with rental as opposed to sale, and that rather than simply bash Anshe, it would have been more helpful to a new player to point out the differences so that they can make an informed decision on their own. That is protecting the new players, nnot simply sanying Anshe is misleading and writing her letters.
Hiro, however your term the transaction (which I have discussed my views on at some length in other threads) youa re acquiring some interest in land. Ther are some advantages to "renting" from Anshe as opposed to "buying" from the Lindens, and vice versa.
Personally I am not clear as to how renting from Anshe preclused you from acquiring first land.
My point however, was simply that noone appointed Lin to be the watchdog for the new player, and if he is going to take that role, then he should at least be fair, annd not so blantantly biased.
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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05-09-2005 09:52
If they rent from Anshe, or anyone else, I am 99% certain the first land option will still be there for them.
The point of most of the related discussions are not about discussing the pros and cons of renting private estate land against buying LL land. The discussion is about the listing of this land in the land sales menu. This thread in particular is about such land being directed at new players specifically and has been 'targeted' at Anshe as she is the only one doing it.
I hasten to add Anshe is not the only person who has listed rental land in the sales tab in general.
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