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How long do you think the L$ will remain stable?

Jauani Wu
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Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
06-13-2006 21:45
all things being the same, my prediction is until september.
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Jauani Wu
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Svar Beckersted
Registered User
Join date: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 783
06-13-2006 21:54
What do you consider stable?
mcgeeb Gupte
Jolie Femme @}-,-'-,---
Join date: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,152
06-13-2006 21:58
My prediction is it will stay stable until September. That is 340-320L per dollar and then eventually strengthen to 300L per dollar unless LL changes something drastic again. I'm waiting until September to cash out :)
Svar Beckersted
Registered User
Join date: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 783
06-13-2006 22:13
From: mcgeeb Gupte
My prediction is it will stay stable until September. That is 340-320L per dollar and then eventually strengthen to 300L per dollar unless LL changes something drastic again. I'm waiting until September to cash out :)


Why do you think it will stop at L$300/1? Why not L$280/1 or even L$250/1?
Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
06-13-2006 22:27
lol! strengthen?? is LL really planning on cancelling stipends?

by stable i mean bouncing around the 325 to 330 mark
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Jauani Wu
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mcgeeb Gupte
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Join date: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,152
06-13-2006 22:28
From: Svar Beckersted
Why do you think it will stop at L$300/1? Why not L$280/1 or even L$250/1?


No it won't stop. It's just my best sell price target and I'll wait until September if I need to. October through December will be good for seller's because of the time of year. Dwell changes too will end very soon.
mcgeeb Gupte
Jolie Femme @}-,-'-,---
Join date: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,152
06-13-2006 22:33
From: Jauani Wu
lol! strengthen?? is LL really planning on cancelling stipends?

by stable i mean bouncing around the 325 to 330 mark


It's easy to say get worse isn't it? No they aren't cancelling any more stipends and if they did they will kill the economy. As long as per capita remains the same there is no reason cut stipends.
I'm concerned with how the value is as much as anyone selling them, but It doesn't help if the value is better with no sales coming in.
Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
06-13-2006 22:33
From: mcgeeb Gupte
October through December will be good for seller's because of the time of year.


you mean the time when RL costs add up like the heating and electricity bills going up and the christmas craze?
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Maxx Monde
Registered User
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,848
06-14-2006 04:48
Well, according to the economy trolls, the world ends precisely every Tuesday, with spurts of optimism until the next apocaL$ypse.

The trend on some of the charts right now is sideways, but we haven't seen the effect of the stipend cuts I guess.
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Ricky Zamboni
Private citizen
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,080
06-14-2006 07:04
From: Maxx Monde
The trend on some of the charts right now is sideways, but we haven't seen the effect of the stipend cuts I guess.

Historically, the L$ loses about 0.06% in value every day on average. Based on a calibration up to and including yesterday's data, I predict the following (errors at 95% C.L.):

June 30: L$338 +/- L$19
July 31: L$344.5 +/- L$33
Dec. 31: L$378.6 +/- L$74

And, heck, why not?

June 13, 2007: L$419 +/- L$110
Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
06-14-2006 07:17
From: Jauani Wu
all things being the same, my prediction is until september.



VERY hard to predict at this point I think. My guess is one of the these:

1) It's still dropping, but at about $1l every few days, which means it's not noticeable much, and wil probably not drop by much by September

2) College students and high school kids are home for the summer, meaning they have more time to play online, meaning there's a lot more buying/selling going on, so it'll stay stable while they're here, and will resume its decline after everyone leaves again in September

3) LL will announce Havoc 2 in July or August, which causes the usual bounce in $L value that happens with new good features (bounce in the increase in value direction) (Havoc 2 is supposed to come out in the Summer... Whether it's last year's summer, as was mentioned in Spring a year ago, or this year's summer, which was suggested a few months ago, or next year's summer... or ever... is anyone's guess I guess).

4) LL announces they're selling $L on Lindex, or some other financial announcement, and regardless of whether it's good or bad for the economy, $L immediately drops in value by a lot, before stabilizing again.

As it is right now, I think it's closer to #1, as in it's still in a decline, although a MUCH slower one right now.
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Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
06-14-2006 07:28
From: Rasah Tigereye
VERY hard to predict at this point I think. My guess is one of the these:

1) It's still dropping, but at about $1l every few days, which means it's not noticeable much, and wil probably not drop by much by September

2) College students and high school kids are home for the summer, meaning they have more time to play online, meaning there's a lot more buying/selling going on, so it'll stay stable while they're here, and will resume its decline after everyone leaves again in September

3) LL will announce Havoc 2 in July or August, which causes the usual bounce in $L value that happens with new good features (bounce in the increase in value direction) (Havoc 2 is supposed to come out in the Summer... Whether it's last year's summer, as was mentioned in Spring a year ago, or this year's summer, which was suggested a few months ago, or next year's summer... or ever... is anyone's guess I guess).

4) LL announces they're selling $L on Lindex, or some other financial announcement, and regardless of whether it's good or bad for the economy, $L immediately drops in value by a lot, before stabilizing again.

As it is right now, I think it's closer to #1, as in it's still in a decline, although a MUCH slower one right now.


Oh quite crying!

Here use these, everthing is going to be alright despite what the freebie reseller is saying.

Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
06-14-2006 07:33
From: Ranma Tardis
Oh quite crying!

Here use these, everthing is going to be alright despite what the freebie reseller is saying.



Who said I was crying? These are just some ideas and observations I had in regards to OP's question. I personally like where this market is at right now.
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Maximillion Grant
Registered User
Join date: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 172
06-14-2006 09:32
From: Rasah Tigereye
College students and high school kids are home for the summer, meaning they have more time to play online, meaning there's a lot more buying/selling going on, so it'll stay stable while they're here, and will resume its decline after everyone leaves again in September


I sincerely hope there are no high school students in SL. I hadn't turned 18 by the time I finished high school.
Oasis Perun
Registered User
Join date: 2 Oct 2005
Posts: 128
06-14-2006 09:37
From: Maximillion Grant
I sincerely hope there are no high school students in SL. I hadn't turned 18 by the time I finished high school.



There are more than anybody can count. both over and under 18.
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Maximillion Grant
Registered User
Join date: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 172
06-14-2006 09:39
From: Ricky Zamboni
Historically, the L$ loses about 0.06% in value every day on average. Based on a calibration up to and including yesterday's data, I predict the following (errors at 95% C.L.):

June 30: L$338 +/- L$19
July 31: L$344.5 +/- L$33
Dec. 31: L$378.6 +/- L$74

And, heck, why not?

June 13, 2007: L$419 +/- L$110


With the removal of dwell, the end of the 250 initial balance for new accounts and the removal of stipends for new accounts, the economic landscape has changed. I don't think predictions based on the past hold as much water in the current economic model.

Every day there are hundreds or thousands of new people joining who have very little option but to purchase Lindens from the exchange. I think we'll start seeing a climb in value in the coming months.
Doc Nielsen
Fallen...
Join date: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,059
06-14-2006 09:46
From: Jauani Wu
all things being the same, my prediction is until september.




How long is a piece of jelly?
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Jamie Bergman
SL's Largest Distributor
Join date: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,752
06-14-2006 10:04
From: Jauani Wu
all things being the same, my prediction is until september.


Not even. There will be blood in the streets again before that.
Ricky Zamboni
Private citizen
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,080
06-14-2006 10:18
From: Maximillion Grant
With the removal of dwell, the end of the 250 initial balance for new accounts and the removal of stipends for new accounts, the economic landscape has changed. I don't think predictions based on the past hold as much water in the current economic model.

Every day there are hundreds or thousands of new people joining who have very little option but to purchase Lindens from the exchange. I think we'll start seeing a climb in value in the coming months.

The model calibration includes such things as:
(a) the great land rush of summer 2004
(b) the removal of rating bonuses and event support in January 2005
(c) the closing of GOM and opening of LindeX in October 2005
(d) the removal of telehubs in February 2006

Although there are some admittedly unrealistic assumptions that may weaken the model (i.e. I'm ignoring higher moments of the probability distribution), I doubt the things you've mentioned will have any more world-altering effect than any of the large-scale economic changes of the past.
Svar Beckersted
Registered User
Join date: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 783
06-14-2006 10:32
From: Ricky Zamboni
Historically, the L$ loses about 0.06% in value every day on average. Based on a calibration up to and including yesterday's data, I predict the following (errors at 95% C.L.):

June 30: L$338 +/- L$19
July 31: L$344.5 +/- L$33
Dec. 31: L$378.6 +/- L$74

And, heck, why not?

June 13, 2007: L$419 +/- L$110




Just checked my model. I had mis-transferred a date in one function. The predicted rates should be:

May 31: L$337 +/- L$4
June 7: L$338 +/- L$12
June 30: L$344 +/- L$24
August 31: L$360 +/- L$43

All at the 95% confidence level

Ricky this was your prediction on 31 May, how did we get so far off in only 14 days?
Ricky Zamboni
Private citizen
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,080
06-14-2006 10:36
From: Svar Beckersted
Ricky this was your prediction on 31 May, how did we get so far off in only 14 days?

The models projects off the current price. On May 31, we were close to the peak of the upward price movement. You'll notice, though, that the confidence intervals of the estimates overlap in a meaningful way...
Maximillion Grant
Registered User
Join date: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 172
06-14-2006 11:01
From: Ricky Zamboni
The model calibration includes such things as:
(a) the great land rush of summer 2004
(b) the removal of rating bonuses and event support in January 2005
(c) the closing of GOM and opening of LindeX in October 2005
(d) the removal of telehubs in February 2006

Although there are some admittedly unrealistic assumptions that may weaken the model (i.e. I'm ignoring higher moments of the probability distribution), I doubt the things you've mentioned will have any more world-altering effect than any of the large-scale economic changes of the past.


I think that goes to the crux of the real problem. While I think stipends and dwell did contribute somewhat to the decline of the Linden in recent months, especially with the rapid growth of the population causing a flood of new money the system couldn't quite absorb, by far the biggest cause has been sudden panic after specific policy changes or announcements.

Admittedly I've only been actively participating in the Lindex since about November of last year but the value has seemed very steady most of the time followed by sharp drops in value after specific events; the telehub land buyback and the most recent accouncement of LL considering selling $L in the future for example.

Whether the recent removal of certain money creation systems will be enough to nudge the value in the other direction remains to be seen, but I certainly think we have a better chance now than we did 2 months ago.

At the current rate of growth we might see 400,000 - 500,000 residents by the end of the year meaning only 50% of the population will be contributing to new $L via stipends. Less supply, more demand :)
Ricky Zamboni
Private citizen
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,080
06-14-2006 11:16
From: Maximillion Grant
I think that goes to the crux of the real problem. While I think stipends and dwell did contribute somewhat to the decline of the Linden in recent months, especially with the rapid growth of the population causing a flood of new money the system couldn't quite absorb, by far the biggest cause has been sudden panic after specific policy changes or announcements.

Admittedly I've only been actively participating in the Lindex since about November of last year but the value has seemed very steady most of the time followed by sharp drops in value after specific events; the telehub land buyback and the most recent accouncement of LL considering selling $L in the future for example.

Whether the recent removal of certain money creation systems will be enough to nudge the value in the other direction remains to be seen, but I certainly think we have a better chance now than we did 2 months ago.

At the current rate of growth we might see 400,000 - 500,000 residents by the end of the year meaning only 50% of the population will be contributing to new $L via stipends. Less supply, more demand :)

I've been involved in the economy from the beginning (heck, I pretty much *invented* it...). Look at the chart in this thread. You'll see the decline in value over time independent of punctuating events.

Of course, the arrival of information *does* cause distinct movements in the rate -- both upward and downward (witness the brief halt in the downward slide and recovery in January 2005). Given that the user numbers are drastically inflated (from other numbers given, I estimate there are no more than about 30,000 truly *active* users), I don't think the population growth will have nearly the effect you expect.
Maximillion Grant
Registered User
Join date: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 172
06-14-2006 11:30
From: Ricky Zamboni
I've been involved in the economy from the beginning (heck, I pretty much *invented* it...). Look at the chart in this thread. You'll see the decline in value over time independent of punctuating events.

Of course, the arrival of information *does* cause distinct movements in the rate -- both upward and downward (witness the brief halt in the downward slide and recovery in January 2005). Given that the user numbers are drastically inflated (from other numbers given, I estimate there are no more than about 30,000 truly *active* users), I don't think the population growth will have nearly the effect you expect.


Yeah, I know your history Ricky...I also know that I'm logged in most of the day in my shop (I sell skins) and I can tell you there are plenty of newbies in there daily. I spend a lot of my time helping them figure out how to get the bag off their head and explaining how to open it so I can tell you they're not alts.

Even the ones that ARE alts need to puchase many things as plenty of items are not transferrable. The days of farming alts for Lindens are over so you can strike that as a reason for making them. Those alts may not contribute as much to the economy as their main avatars but they still are.

I also have plenty of newbies who add me to their friend's list and in the year I've been here, I honesly only see a hand of people on that list who never log in anymore. That's pretty good resident retention if you ask me.

Plus, never underestimate the tourist market....some people may not stay long but many of them will spend while they are here.
ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
06-14-2006 12:06
From: Jauani Wu
all things being the same, my prediction is until september.




Goes down daily. So as long as LL prints new money every week,
the L$ will continue to decline.
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