Northern Continent: Preserve the Beauty - at least for a while!

As for part 1 of your answer, I don't recall saying it was an idea that everybody would (or should) jump on enthusiastically.... although it would save time, since so many people seem to clear trees and flatten the land to build anyway. In case you didn't notice, that was an idle thought from someone who's become rather bitter and cynical over the last year. I do realize that change is the only constant in this world, as well as in RL. I have to accept that, I don't have to like it.

As for opening my wallet, I already have, thanks. I hold a sizeable chunk of land in a beautiful forested sim and I planned my build to be in harmony with it. I tiered up again when I moved there so that I could have a larger parcel of forest, and I also spent a fair amount of time replanting trees after I moved in.

I know I'm not the only person who's dismayed to see new land changing and being developed so fast. It's human nature to be suspicious of change and to want to talk about how reluctant we are to have to accept it. Are you always this rude to people who are expressing an opinion?

Yes. Because your opinion is poison. If you aren't buying the land to hold onto that original beauty, then what your opinion is saying, in not so many words is:


"When you SLers buy that new land and pay ungodly tier fees for it, please don't use it for anything, just eat the costs so I 'Ilianexsi Sojourner' can continue to enjoy its beauty at your expense."


Thats what I hear when you and others talk about how new land should remain unchanged. Its an elitest point of view to deny new land from being building/changed so that your fantasy can be maintained. And because of this, I just come right out and tell ya my 2/cents, regardless of how rude you feel it might be. Do you not think that proposing the new lands remain as-is for your own personal gain to be a rude comment and selfish comment?

Wow, Alby, are you reading what is posted or just spouting?



As a neighbour of Ilianexsi Sojourner I would have to say this person whom I don't know at all has put their money where their mouth is, bought land, built on it beautifully, kept it nice, and enhanced the entire neighbourhood.

I, too, get angry at tree-huggers who want somebody else to pay for their tree-hugging. Ilianexsi Sojourner is not one of those people from what I see in-game.

What the Lindens have to do is fix the group perms to make group land cooperation easier and safer.

Most of all, after making this big fuss about welding objects to land, they have to be aware of a major bug that I've reported as have Linden Liaisons and others: when you deed an object to group, and return that set object off the parcel for any reason (maybe to get rid of a griefer who also set to an open group), that object disappears into thin air, does not return ever to lost and found folders, and simply ceases to exist. Yes, try it before you spout off to me, please, and you'll get it instantly. Major, major bug!

For someone like me, who is new to SL and the culture of discussion forums, it is still interesting to see how these threads develop. What opinions are given, how other peoples opinions are treated, who is listening and answering, who is just talking. What is most fascinating to me, is often, what is interpreted into other peoples words, what arguments are ignored, what arguments are attacked. It is a little like in a talkshow on TV - even though I expected in all of my n00b naivite that in written communications there would be more time for thought, for consideration ...

For example, when I asked, if 'Some Part' of the new sims should be preserved or be developed in a controlled fashion (with an added 'at least for a while' in the headline), some advocates of free enterprise obviously interpreted that as 'keep everything as it is' or 'people unite against the land barons'. I did not say so. I did not even mean that. I am no advocate of pastoralism. And I am all for business in SL and RL. And I think, my suggestion would be good for business in SL.

Or, when Prokofy asks a question I at least tried to answer two times before in the same threadBecause LL has a different business model from any group of players, Prokofy. There are a lot of different target groups for SL. If the Lindens would like to attract people, who like SL for the beauty of it, it pays to provide that. It might be good marketing for SL.

It would even be advantagous for others players, who are interested onlyin the business side of SL. More users, more business. It is a correlation between cost (for the servers) and earnings (monthly fees, tier for land in other sims) that is much more direct for LL than for any business in SL.

If there was a working, effective model for a player to provide that (parklike sims) and make a business out of it, I am all for that. But just now it ain't. At least I don't see it. But some of your suggestions (1. - 4.) sound interesting Prokofy. I think it would be worth a try. How can I help?



Alby, that cartoon sure is funny. But thats another case of a counter-argument where there was no pro-argument. As I said earlier - at least in this thread I could not find any advocates for preserving the whole continent as it is (besides a rant from Ilianexsi; which was obviously meant as a polemic). And to keep 'part of' the new land out of freewheeling development is usually seen as a sensible decision in RL from which the society as a whole profits. Most people like it, to have such regions ... somewhere. The only ones who don't like that, usually don't like it for one or two very specific regions - which they would profit from if free development would be possible there.

The cartoon is funny. 'your opinion is poison' is not funny, not even with the usual 'shrugs, just my 2 cents ...' addition. Thats the style of discussion that poisons some parts of the forums and keeps a lot of residents, who could contribute interesting thoughs too, from them.

Just my 0.02 L$ of course ...

Kim, you've gotten very good, very fast at the know-it-all "let me set you straight because I get it and you don't" attitude you need to be in with this gang on the forums.

However, I don't think you can put words into the Lindens' mouth or decide for them what you think is their good business model. Who's to say they have a business model different, than, say, a group of players, maybe smaller than they are as a company, maybe bigger, who want to make a game-within-a-game?

Like when players rant to me that they think the Lindens "frown on" renting, I say, baloney, it's good for their business if I help players have more access to more land, do more projects and socialize more, spend more in the game and then buy more land. Then I'm a conveyor belt for better business for the Lindens, too. Everybody wins. But what if they don't care? What if they basically say, "Screw you Prokofy, we just want to sell our land, get out of the way, you either sell it or sit on it and pay tier but don't get and grand ideas of undercutting our rich tier system." In fact, they most likely think this and it explains why things are so goddman hard for me in the game sometimes. They don't make group tools work better for a reason -- they really don't want player cooperation because it then removes the meaning for their existence at the level of intrusiveness that they have now.

My point is that our assumptions that certain player things, and their subsidy of certain player things is "good for business" as a loss leader maybe is flawed.



Why does Phil say "let's hunk off bigger and bigger pieces of land at the auction" then? That's all it's really about.



Maybe because you are new, you haven't seen it but I am not the only person who has put together a combination of rentals, sales, and commons with tier donations. It's very possible to do. Just go look at it in Ravenglass and Alston, and others who have communities can tell you about theirs, like Taber or Slate.

"Helping" isn't a thing we have to have a meeting about, you just donate the tier, and rent for the purpose of resident or business.

Thanks, they always tell me I am a fast learner
I don't think I did 'put words into the Lindens' mouth'. But the Lindens have a lot more ways to influence the game than any group of players. They control the supply of land, prices for membership, bonuses, etc. No chance for any different business model? Hmm ... I did not intend to judge a business model ('good business model') and did not do it (where?). If you look at my posts, you even might see little words like 'if', 'might' etc. sometimes They are not common words in here, I know. Easy to oversee. But, No, I am not sure.That obviously is the case. I will do

'Just do as I tell ya, you will see'? OK, lets try it out. Youre suggestion for a group I should join and donate to, to learn more about it?

Kim,

When I say "just do it" it isn't to be pushy and aggressive, it's just to say loads of time. You click on the boxes and get the card in Alston or Ross or whever and see how it works. It's the sort of thing you have to walk through once slowly sometimes.



You are convinced nobody can make a close and careful reading of your posts and that it is worth your time to pick on grammar. It's not.

You said maybe the Lindens don't have the same business model as players, as if a) you knew what it was they have or b) players are going to be stupid by default.

But all the points you made, surprising as it may seem, have already been made before a million times. It's the endemic problem of being a newb and tuning in -- I know, I suffer from it too. We already said in many other threads even just week that we don't have the numbers from them.

Start the Petition: Turn 'prims' into a commodity


No longer will a prim allotment be given with land size ownership. You must purchase prims on the open market. And the source of 'prims' will come from pools of prims being randomly scattered around SL for SLers to drill/mine (ie: Drilling Platform in ANWR). Those lucky players will be the oil barons or OPEC (Organization of Prim Exporting Countries). Selling Prims on another version of GOM/IGE.

It would be a boom to all if such existed. There would be a mad land speculation rush causing land prices to rise, LL would be cashing in on all the tier fees, players would be profiting from their PrimOil exploits, Radical Leftist will be mowed over by PrimOil Tankers, and PrimOil Traders would be throwing up gang signs buying and selling Prims 24/7. It would be a glorious time in SL.


We just need more commodities besides Land and L$ Dollars. This could be the future for a Second Life Commodity Trading Floor.

No.

-Ghoti

I also say no, but Alby's joke is amusing none the less. The idea of additional commodities and their associated markets is a good one. In most classic pen and paper or hexmap games a range of valuable commodities forms the scaffold for many categories of endeavor. Too few commodity types makes those games predictable. PC games have a different feel beause players expect more of an action experience instead of study and tinkering. A PC game is either an economic simulation with a lot of micromanagement, or some other genre with very simple resource and market functions.

SL has the potential to accomodate both of these because players do not expect to be expert in all categories of endeavor. More commodities and their associated markets would allow more people to bring their RL expertise to bear. If SL had well developed markets some enterprising group would be sure to introduce derivatives, further blurring the line between SL and RL. Some might object that these activities do not add value to player experience, but a market with enough scope, transparency and liquiditiy is beneficial to its users just like any other service.


I would call $L a currency, not a commodity. Land could be thought of as two commodities, square meters and prim allocation. These are linked, but are sometimes rented separately. Server resources to support scripts and texture seem destined to become a third commodity in the future.

The most important guidline for extending the SL economy is not to create markets, but to support, not hinder the raw creative talent here in SL.

I hate to break it to everyone... but the prims from the oil rig can only be used to make objects that are set to "rubber."

One needs prims harvested from trees to make wooden objects.

Hello Kahruvel Lumber Company!

Yes... Money Yes. Rainbows No.

I'd like to see a Wildlife refuge somewhere in SL. This new continent seems to be the perfect place to make one so far, so my proposition is that LL simply start selling land only on the coasts to keep the inner sims from being built as long as possible.

All except those who don't play SL exclusively the all mighty greenback....

And I'd be suprised if they were in the minority.


BTW Ghoti -- "money yes.. rainbows no" is Alby's way of saying "I want money without having to actually do anything for it" -- it ain't the first time he's floated this idea, and it ain't getting any less boneheaded in the retelling either


Siggy.

I'd like to see such a thing too - but the only way to create it and have it stay is not through subsidy, but by actively buying hand holding the land... One way would be to form a group and donate tier and funds to hold it... maybe hold events or raise $L through donations to sustain it.

It is 'our world - our imagination' , so the onus should be on us to create and sustain such a thing.

Siggy.

LL will be waiting for your $10,000/monthly check to appease your wishes

There are empty sims between Morris and Cordova/Goguen. Why wouldn't LL put some sims just like these in the new continent as well ?

So the fact is, I'm pissing people off by buying a lot of prim land and actually making that extra space look pretty and natural, while keeping it open to avatar/vehicle traffic free of stupid-as-fuck insta-bounce scripts.

Sweet, I don't even have to erect a single grief build to anger people. Good deal.

Yes, if we could have some kind of confidence that the new continent would be developed in a way that made it look better, not worse, than I don't think we'd need to preserve it.

it's one thing to be an environmentalist in RL but here???? jesus.....

Totally agree.

If someone has a hankering for some natural beauty. Hop in your gas guzzling SUV and go see it. Yes, do something with your REAL LIFE!

This is a mostly lawless online society of people hiding behind their keyboards and letting their inhibitions down. For 99% of this community, that does not mean petitioning the Lindens into preserving virtual swampland. If someone is that hell bent on petitioning to force change on the rest of us they should go recycle newspapers and soda cans and use that money to buy their own nature preserve island.