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Land: let's hear it from you.

Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
11-24-2004 23:32
The Lindens started this conversation with a small, focused group. Obviously, there is much interest in this issue, and as Robin stated, they will be bringing the next discussion on this topic to a much wider audience.

With that, let's hear it from you. Let's try to keep this on-topic.

Post your responses to:


1. Why do you own land?

2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?

3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?
Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
11-25-2004 01:26
1. Why do you own land?
I own land to build and dwell on and i own land to buy and sell

2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?
i have participated because early on i realized i could get land cheaper on the auction. i later realized i could sell it for in world prices for a profit. now i rarely buy land in world.

3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?
group land ownership is difficult to manage in anonymity. on the one hand, LL wants to encourage group projects. on the other hand, gridded land can not be deeded to a group without complete trust in fellow officers to not sell the land. there has to be a way to empower officers without allowing them to sell land. groups require another level of heirarchy for business oriented groups which can allow CEOs to terminate officers that work for them to manage the project.
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Jauani Wu
hero of justice
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Issarlk Chatnoir
Cross L. apologist.
Join date: 3 Oct 2004
Posts: 424
11-25-2004 06:00
1. Why do you own land?
To build on it things for my own use.


2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?
Never. The fact that the prices are in real dollar is some sort of psychological barrier imo.
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From: Flugelhorn McHenry
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Yuki Callahan
Priestess of Artemis
Join date: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 50
11-25-2004 08:42
1. Why do you own land?
I own land for fun & profit. I didnt know fully the details about First Land on my previous account but I found out recently lol. I looove having land to play with. I put some objects there, I have a home, my pets. Also, for stores ^^.

2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?
Yes I have. After buying my first land in Kamba, I soon discovered the auction space. I saw it before but never payed attention to it. So, being short on Lindens, I bought my Cottonwood home for 20$. I haven't used it since though because I am not on as much.

3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?
The fees, the evil evil fees! maybe if it was just more spaced,512 for %$ then 10$ for 4000 or something. Its just way to much for me, I am selling my land in Poliahu ><.
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Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
11-25-2004 10:25
From: Juro Kothari
The Lindens started this conversation with a small, focused group. Obviously, there is much interest in this issue, and as Robin stated, they will be bringing the next discussion on this topic to a much wider audience.

With that, let's hear it from you. Let's try to keep this on-topic.

Post your responses to:


1. Why do you own land?

2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?

3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?


1) To build on.
2) I did once, to snag my first land in Grignano. Everything else was bought from fellow users for exorbitant prices.
3) Lack of granuality with tiers. With the land I own in Grignano, I can either pay $25/month for going only a few hundred meters over the previous tier, or I can pay $15 a month, deed the land to a clunky group filled with alts, and leave it at that.

LF
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
11-25-2004 11:01
1. Why do you own land?
To build on: my own house in one spot and a store in another to sell things. None of my land sits empty and useless.

2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?
I haven't so far because a. I wasn't aware of the auction boards and b. I have wanted specific locations. I bought from ppl in world. I will use the auctions next time land of interest to me is up for grabs.

3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?
The tier jump from 25$ to 40$ a month is a pretty big leap both in land allocation and price. It's hard justifying spending that much on vitual land rent, and in my case, when you're converting to Canadian funds (approximately 53 Canadian). I would like to see a tier level in the mid to low 30's.
Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
11-25-2004 11:09
From: Juro Kothari
The Lindens started this conversation with a small, focused group. Obviously, there is much interest in this issue, and as Robin stated, they will be bringing the next discussion on this topic to a much wider audience.

With that, let's hear it from you. Let's try to keep this on-topic.

Post your responses to:


1. Why do you own land?

2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?

3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?


1.) For my own enjoyment and hopefully others.

2.) yes, one time to expand my holdings in Jenner. All other times I have bought from players for the same reason, to expand my holdings in Jenner.

3.) For the most part I dont have any issues with land ownership.
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Nexus Nash
Undercover Linden
Join date: 18 Dec 2002
Posts: 1,084
11-25-2004 11:53
1. Why do you own land?
Because I like to have "my space" to build whatever I want!

2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?
Yes, tones of times! If you are going in auctions you must be ready to fight for the land you want and have PLENTY of L$$$$ to back it! However i've never bought USD land, only L$

3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?
Group managment!
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Azreal Rubio
PrimHead
Join date: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 194
11-25-2004 12:16
From: Juro Kothari
1. Why do you own land?

2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?

3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?


1.) to build our houses and hold our store

2.) A couple of times, probably too many USD auctions but recently (last 6 months) not one, the price seems way higher than it was, mind you I was lucky one bank holiday weekend......

3.)the jump between tiers, its just too darn high :eek:
Lisse Livingston
Mentor/Instructor/Greeter
Join date: 16 May 2004
Posts: 1,130
11-25-2004 14:05
1. Why do you own land?

Because I love land! This is a RL as well as SL obsession for me. I love taking a bare surface and transforming it into a beautiful place to live, a compelling place to shop, or a convenient place to set up an office. I cannot get enough land - I am already on a tier that I can barely afford, but the urge to expand is too great. I also love helping other people experience the joys of homesteading - especially taking them out to find their perfect piece of First Land.

2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?

Too often! When I first started, US$ auction wins and then a resale were a better option for me to increase my wealth than using GOM, as I am very wary of Paypal. I've still never bought L$s directly, and I've sworn off US$ auctions, but I find the auctions very addictive and cannot resist a bid or two when really compelling new Sims are released.

3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any

Tier jumps are too great at high level. If you have half a Sim of land, it is hard to contemplate paying an extra US$70 per month when 512m2 of land next door goes up for sale. And yet - how can you not buy it?! So you do, and then you look around for more land to fill up the rest of your new tier level.

Apart from that, I have very few issues with land ownership itself. I think new residents need more and better education on the process to avoid being burned, but anything else that I find irksome is the result of human behavior, not the process itself.
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Prio Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 7 Aug 2003
Posts: 12
11-26-2004 00:18
1) For running a store, and for spare room for building or fiddling around.
2) So far, no. I bought all the land I've needed back before the auction system existed.
3) I wish you could restrict access to certain altitudes within a parcel, without restricting access to the entire parcel from the lowest point to infinity. That might be unreasonable to ask, though.
Tanaquil Karuna
Aoi aoi kono hoshi ni
Join date: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 279
11-26-2004 00:45
1. Why do you own land?
To have a place for my store, and build quietly when the mood strikes.

2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?
No. I am naturally wary toward auctions - no way I'm going to bid on something, I know I'll necessarly end up paying more for it than what it's really worth. Besides, I don't want to invest real $. If I'm to buy land, it'll be in L$, and in world.

3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?
The repartition in tiers. I understand that owning a private sim should cost you a lot, but there really lacks a few more "steps" between the highest tiers. If you own an island, then need to pay 70 extra bucks just because you bought 1024 sqm in another sim, to me it means there's a serious problem with the way the tier fees are calculated.
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Cereal Milk
Magically Delicious
Join date: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 203
11-26-2004 02:44
1. Why do you own land?
Because I was required to upgrade to a Premium account in order to have a Busy Ben's spot.

2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?
No, because I've never had to.

3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?
Land use fees are comically expensive.
Dee Firefly
Dreaming Dragoness
Join date: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 315
11-26-2004 05:20
1. Why do you own land?
Purely as a 'place to call home', a retreat in which to build, play and modify to my hearts content. I am not a business-person. I have moved four times now before finally securing a little island to myself which was always my preference, even if I had to leave my preferred Sim to do it.

2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?
Yes, I bid on four parcels in Shona when that Sim came online, of which I secured two parcels. All these were in US$ as I was broke for Lindens at the time and land was expensive back then. Since then I've only dealt with other landowners, or most recently I was extraordinarily fortunate enough to acquire public land. Criticism of the auction process - auction times favour those in the USA in terms of convenience, I can't stay up till 3am or whatever to track an auction to the end.

3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?
Tier fees do get a bit steep. I've just bumped up to the 8192 tier, which is getting a little hot for me. It was a fair step up from the 4096 tier. I justify it as I do get a lot of enjoyment out of SL and it has become a major hobby but I just hope I can sustain the expenditure. It's not too bad for now whilst the US dollar is so weak; $40 + $9.95 currently translates to just over 27 UK pounds a month I think (or about a dozen pints of nice warm english real ale :D )
Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
11-29-2004 23:10
1. Why do you own land?

I got used to immediately having a lot in the game in The Sims Online and I wanted to have a land parcel where friends could build and have various activities like exhibits, dances, theater, etc. 512 isn't big enough, 1024 isn't big enough for building anything significant, so I went for two parcels around 10,000-12,000 each.

But it took some weeks to get to that point because I saw everyone was afraid of the high prices, the tiers, and of mistakes and/or problems. I see that new players are intimidated from buying even 512 land. I also saw that the land was covered with malls and for-sale signs and wanted to push back and have an area that preserved some of the natural beauty and built in harmony with the original land as it was made.

2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?

I couldn't understand what the Linden was really worth when I first came to the game, so I went to the auctions after a friend pointed out some prime real estate. I bought in dollars so I could really understand what I was spending. I wanted a certain-shaped parcel for our project so I sold off part of one parcel to get that shape and also reassure myself that I wouldn't be caught holding a huge bag in terms of tier.

3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?

It is way, way too complicated to do group purchases and maintenance of land, and there is too much confusion between the "tier allocation," an abstract privilege one can use and contribute, and the actual land one holds. It is way too easy to make stupid mistakes like pressing "release land" or accidently doubling your tier because you haven't figured out the sequencing for group purchases. There simply is too much confusion and difficulty in organizing group land purchases with little safeguards against dummies on the one hand and malicious officers on the other. People should have the option to become a property owner and retain full rights to the land while inviting in people to help in a group project with their tier, and enable them to build. The bugginess of groups working jointly on land is inexusable in a game which is supposed to promote big builds an innovative projects for content.

The jumps between the tier levels are also too steep, i.e. $40 to $75, and you get punished for being over just a little on the lower tier. They should be more finely graded.

Other than these problems, I find it thrilling to own virtual land in an experimental world, even though those tier fees aren't so virtual, and I wonder how long I can keep them up.
Tito Gomez
Mi Vida Loca
Join date: 1 Aug 2004
Posts: 921
11-30-2004 06:43
From: someone
1. Why do you own land?


For the peace and tranquility of Cihuatlan beach, for building, but most of all because I love watching all my beautiful friends in their tiny bikinis. :D

From: someone
2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?


No. Too compulsive. I hate waiting. This means I paid top L$ for what I do own. Right at the peak of land prices, baby! :(

From: someone
3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?


Just like with coffee and doughnuts: I still have half a doughnut, I need more coffee. I still have coffee, I need another doughnut. Always found myself going up to the next tier because I was short of buildable real estate, or out of objects.

- T -
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MrsJakal Suavage
Purple Butterfly
Join date: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,434
11-30-2004 09:30
1. Why do you own land? Because I wanted to build something creative.

2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? YES If no, why? N/A

3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any? high land teir cost.
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
11-30-2004 11:01
From: Juro Kothari
The Lindens started this conversation with a small, focused group. Obviously, there is much interest in this issue, and as Robin stated, they will be bringing the next discussion on this topic to a much wider audience.

With that, let's hear it from you. Let's try to keep this on-topic.

Post your responses to:


1. Why do you own land?

I love to build. I like to share my ideas/creations.

2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?

Yes

3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?

Tier Fees:
Well currently I am paying for 1/2 a sim and I have 8k of that tier left over that I dont use yet I am paying for it. I could spend the L$ or RL$ in auction or buy land in world but its all so over priced I would rather not even have that extra 8k of land. Given the choice I would prefer to have my monthly land fees dropped as I don't use that 8k.

Not being able to change the texture on my land.
Turning physics off on trees.
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Jay Knox
Founder Knox Enterprises
Join date: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 187
11-30-2004 13:53
From: Juro Kothari


1. Why do you own land?

2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?

3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?


1. Primarily to build projects that interest me, and secondly to hold land for a couple of friends who wish to do the same but aren't able to afford it.

2. Yes. I purchased several plots at auction and saw no problems with that process once the Proxy bidding feature was added.

3. I would like to see more granular tier fees. Especially in the upper tiers. I have been steady at just under 1/2 of a sim tier. Although I am now at a point where i must bump to a full sim tier even if i want to add just 512 over my allotment with my current tier. I can't see paying another $70us/month unless i wanted to fill that additional 32,000m2, and currently i dont have the time to take on additional projects that could utilize that additional land, but i certainly would like to buy two more lots in a sim that I already own in. My only remaining choice is to get rid of some of my current land holdings and I am not looking to get rid of any of it.
Zapoteth Zaius
Is back
Join date: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 5,634
Why? Have You? any Issues?
12-01-2004 13:55
1. Why do you own land?

The first time I bought land it was for a house/shop. Now adays I experiment. I'm probably in everyones bad books because I currently own and Mall and a Club :-). They're mainly for fun. The other reason I own land is for shops.. Luna and Boardman are my current stops.



2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?

I have a couple of times... Only ever with L$. I think I've won once. But I don't enjoy it as much as buying in world. It just seems easier. Plus big parcels are all US$ and they're dead expencive.



3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?

Residential land (Boardman, De Haro etc) not being clearly posted or a warning popped up before you buy it. You can't sell anything, supposedly in De Haro you need to have a tent or a cabin.

Don't ask me why but I don't like the idea of people buying big chunks of land and selling it on. Just don't ask ;-)

I know everyone says this but.. Group Land: Controllability mainly.. The whole thing needs to be reworked.

The release land button.. More warnings needed.

I'll think of more ;-)
Snakekiss Noir
japanese designer
Join date: 9 Dec 2003
Posts: 334
my answers
12-05-2004 07:52
Post your responses to:


1. Why do you own land?
First to make a home and start to create my vision of a Japanese landscape and builds, secondly then to protect those peaceful areas against greed only barons and builders who didnt care about their land, or unmanaged bare spaces, thirdly because by then the entire Sim and the idea I had made became liked and important to me as a duty to those who enjoyed it and my few friends who live there. Lastly, it becomes a need to own more to grow your many ideas for new projects.


2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?

Almost once, and it was impossible to get the series of plots I wanted in a winter sim to make a nice japanese winter resort without ' doing deals' with the cartel of baron bidders who virtually carved up auctions between them at the time, and 'agreed' who would bid or prevent or oppose or ' allow' who to get what. This experience put me off and I have never even looked at auctions again. Of course as they say this was all just 'perceived' there is no ' evidence' but thats how it was, and this was made clear to me. Also I do not like the way land shapes are made at the start, or the parcelling sizes and layouts, and the hardship to get a series of bids to work or u end up with a useless plot for ur project with only some of that you need. The final thing maybe is having to bid in both USD and L$ at the same time on different plots in the same sim. Just too much hassle.



3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?

How it brings out the worst in human behaviour

How the land tiers jump so much so that taking one small plot free above tier may costs you $70 a month even though you cant expand to fill the new tier you have in the place you want land to be.

The fact that land charge isnt by ' actual amount used' not by 'peak amount owned' within a fixed tier... it needs altering to charge land for actual amounts owned on meter by meter not in fixed tiers.

The fact that I now am on full sim tier and cant find any information at all about what i pay next if I want to exceed that, on website or anywhere without posting a forum message.

The way people buy land and leave it empty and bare or dump unused half finished wood on it and then do nothing.

The fact that land used by those who leave isn't offered by the LIndens to the people who have patiently cared for and PAID to maintain those sims FIRST and instead is auctioned off to anyone who can pay the highest for it.

The whole Land Baron thing and how land has become a means of profit and not responsibility.
Wilson Blanc
Registered User
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 51
12-05-2004 16:59
1. I do own land, mainly to have my house and I also sell prefab houses there.

2. I have participated in the auctions but it's been a long time since I have.

3. Like most other's have commented, the tier prices are just too high and need to be more granular or more gradually increased. I think there should be a minumum 1024m2 size for land plots as you really can't do much with the 512m2 plots and they tend to ruin the appeal of an area if there are too many.
Barbarra Blair
Short Person
Join date: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 588
12-06-2004 09:37
I own land so that I can build what I want and have it last a little while, and so I can sell things without worrying about my things being deleted, lost, expiring rent, and all those other headaches.

I tried an aution once. I found a piece of property that was ideal for me, that I really wanted, and in the last 15 minutes it was bought "accidentally" by a real estate dealer who did not want it; she offered to sell it to me, but then sold it to someone else instead. Never tried auctions again, it's too heartbreaking.

The tiers jump too quickly; it would be nice to be charged per 512 m^2 instead of according to tiers. I mean, this is computerized, after all, so it shouldn't be that hard to have a ramp instead of a staircase. It would also be nice to be able to earn fee-free or reduced-fee land in some way.

Right now the way to "get ahead" in this game is to spend lots of U.S. $; that doesn't seem right, somehow.
Trifen Fairplay
Officially Unofficial
Join date: 19 Jul 2004
Posts: 321
12-06-2004 14:49
I love to build and ALWAYS seem to run out of prims so I started looking into more land. I found the auctions to be the cheapest and found I could resell enough land to almost cover my land cost.
The auctions are addictive, when you start winning who wants to stop!? I love the auctions and the silent drama as you bid and get outbid!
I hate how the land tier cost are so expensive. It is great they offer a break for more land but who honestly keeps half a sim or more for personal use? After a full sim there isn't any tier discount either. I would like to see LL allow you to pay as you go and not have a select tier level. What I mean is if you buy land you pay for the max amount that you owned in that month by m2 total - not the standard tier level cap. This means you own 6438m2 you pay for that as a prorated rate not be forced to to conform to a select tier. I think this would actually increase land ownership on a whole since players would not be bound to a certain lower tier to prevent a drastic charge from tier differences. This would ultimately increase player long term happyness and LL revenue.
Rose Karuna
Lizard Doctor
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,772
12-08-2004 13:08
From: Juro Kothari
The Lindens started this conversation with a small, focused group. Obviously, there is much interest in this issue, and as Robin stated, they will be bringing the next discussion on this topic to a much wider audience.

With that, let's hear it from you. Let's try to keep this on-topic.

Post your responses to:



1. Why do you own land?

So that I can build things and have a permanent place for the things I build.

2. Have you ever participated in the auction process? If no, why?

Yes

3. What issues do you have with land ownership, if any?

Only that I wish they would fix the system so that land cannot be accidentally released or set up for sale at '0' dollars. This has really become an issue and should be fairly easily fixed in software.
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